Why did Amaral and PJ suspect the McCanns and Murat as being somehow involved?

[gilet]

Odd isn't it Gilet?
Yes she was the one sitting at the table, when the dog went round her feet!

It is a disgrace, not just odd. A definite sign that the coordinator was not coordinating properly or there would be no need to involve amateurs to do the work.

And no sign of any customary protective clothing, not that it would have made a blind bit of difference after the apartment had been repeatedly let and cleaned since the disappearance.

[sadie]

It is a disgrace, not just odd. A definite sign that the coordinator was not coordinating properly or there would be no need to involve amateurs to do the work.

And no sign of any customary protective clothing, not that it would have made a blind bit of difference after the apartment had been repeatedly let and cleaned since the disappearance.

she was in charge of the keys as well, wasn't she?

Anne

Used as a translator in the following days ? I had no idea. Where ? Why ?
Silvia Batista "is noted as the holder of the keys to the apartment and who was present solely to open doors."http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post13722.html#p13722

She could have had a motive for changing statements.  Not saying she did, but she should be part of the investigation, as the one who held the keys

[gilet]

she was in charge of the keys as well, wasn't she?

AnneShe could have had a motive for changing statements.  Not saying she did, but she should be part of the investigation, as the one who held the keys

It is very odd that Amaral simply dismisses the idea of other keys being relevant to the case as not worthy of consideration. Another failing in the investigation which I hope Scotland Yard have looked at carefully. Anyone (including staff) who had access to keys for that apartment should have been a focus for investigation not used as an amateur plod and certainly should not have been present when the dogs were working. Open the doors but do not enter the premises and corrupt the crime scene further.

[DCI]

It is very odd that Amaral simply dismisses the idea of other keys being relevant to the case as not worthy of consideration. Another failing in the investigation which I hope Scotland Yard have looked at carefully. Anyone (including staff) who had access to keys for that apartment should have been a focus for investigation not used as an amateur plod and certainly should not have been present when the dogs were working. Open the doors but do not enter the premises and corrupt the crime scene further.

All Maintenance workers had access to the safe, in the garage where the keys were kept. Sylvia was responsible for them, as was her husband.
Look how many people are shown on the video's, not wearing protective clothing, including Grime, in the apartment shots.

[insider]

Maybe now we can get back to the thread discussion about the reasons why the mccanns and murat were designated as arguidos or official suspects by coordinator amaral and his team.  Appears SY want me to do their work for them!!    

[sadie]

Maintenance workers had access to the safe, in the garage where the keys were kept. Sylvia was responsible for them, as was her husband.
Look how many people are shown on the video's, not wearing protective clothing, including Grime, in the apartment shots.

Three good points there DCI

but seems mod Insider wants to take us away from them
 

Maybe now we can get back to the thread discussion about the reasons why the mccanns and murat were designated as arguidos or official suspects by coordinator amaral and his team.  Appears SY want me to do their work for them!!     

I wonder why?

[insider]

Remind me Sadie before you go off topic again....   Didn't Gerry claim in his first statement with the PJ that he used the front door but later changed his mind and said he used the patio door?

[sadie]

Remind me Sadie before you go off topic again....   Didn't Gerry claim in his first statement with the PJ that he used the front door but later changed his mind and said he used the patio door?

Change of topic there Insider.  Not allowed

The thought police will be on to you.

[Albertini]

But you are forgetting that it was investigated. And the result was that the McCanns were released from their arguido status because there was no evidence against them.

And that it has subsequently been investigated and the Scotland Yard team have stated that neither the McCanns nor their friends are suspects or even persons of interest in the case.

Such forgetfulness on your part is quite alarming.

Deary me, you just aren't grapsing it are you?

The McCann's had not been fully investigated though, had they? The investigation was incomplete because they refused to co-operate right at the very point that the veracity and truthfulness of what they had said they had done that night could be tested by the way of a reconstruction.

Their hiring of Pinochet's extradition lawyers, and the spurious excuses given by their friends, shows they really didn't want to go back to do that reconstruction, to test their statements and actions.

So no evidence was found against them (in the Prosecutor's mind) in the parts of the investigation that was completed, BUT they refused to take part in one area of the reconstruction aimed at testing their statements.

Had they complied with that request to go back for the reconstruction, as a starting point, for keeping Rebelo's investigation going, then you may have a point.

However given the fact that they bailed out of the investigation right at the time it was specifically looking at their truthfulness, then your point is not valid.

[faithlilly]

The section I have underlined in your post is very interesting.

It shows that you have a preset notion of the reason for those claims.

Perhaps they were simply an initial reaction from an extremely anxious parent about a situation he wasn't fully comprehending and transmitted as such to the family in the UK who were in no position to verify things for themselves. And perhaps by the time the interviews took place the following day, then the situation regarding the window/shutters was clearer.

Your presumption that the McCanns, who come from a country quite unused to shutters of this nature, should simply read a board which you tell us explains everything is pretty silly. In the blind panic of a child going missing do you really think that people might not get confused over things which they are unfamiliar with?

Your post shows no real understanding at all of what might have been happening that night. It is devoid of any recognition that you are posting without emotional involvement and with the benefit of hindsight.

Gerry had already tried the shutters and knew they did not have to be forced, broken or jemmied. He did this, we are lead to believe, before he ever spoke to a family member so why is he and Kate telling everyone who will listen a rather dishonest tale of broken shutters ?

[gilet]

Gerry had already tried the shutters and knew they did not have to be forced, broken or jemmied. He did this, we are lead to believe, before he ever spoke to a family member so why is he and Kate telling everyone who will listen a rather dishonest tale of broken shutters ?

How do you know that was his conclusion? Are you simply speculating again or can you point to that conclusion in his statement?

If he had found the shutters were already partly open how on earth can you presume that he did not believe that the mechanism had failed because of a recent forcing of them? You can only do that by speculating.

The fact that you (like others) are unable to appreciate that the reaction of a man in the first minutes after his child has gone missing, when talking to close family may be a little confused as to what precisely has happened and that with the benefit of a few hours of reflection he may realise his initial conclusions, made in the panic of the moment, were not the only ones or even were incorrect is a sign that you have no willingness to really examine the case with an open mind. You have already determined the motive for his actions and cannot contemplate that the emotion of such a moment can cloud judgement for a time.

Fortunately for all potential suspects the police in most jurisdictions actually understand far better than some posters the psychology of such situations and do not presume that every single phrase uttered which is later shown to be mistaken is automatically a lie.

[sadie]

Gerry had already tried the shutters and knew they did not have to be forced, broken or jemmied. He did this, we are lead to believe, before he ever spoke to a family member so why is he and Kate telling everyone who will listen a rather dishonest tale of broken shutters ?

How do you even know whether he used the word jemmied or broken shutters?

At that early stage, knowing that they had left the window and shutters locked (they thought) he might well have believed the abductor/s forced their way in thru the shutters and said exactly that. 

Via the "whispering game" mentioned before, as the news was passed from family member to family member, the word "forced" became "jemmied".   Information via passed word gets changed all the time.  Surely you know that?


You are merely speculating, as are all the Mccann sceptics.


Time to get your mind in order, Faith.  One does not apportion blame on speculation, or myths, alone.

[gilet]

How do you even know whether he used the word jemmied or broken shutters?

At that early stage, knowing that they had left the window and shutters locked (they thought) he might well have believed the abductor/s forced their way in thru the shutters and said exactly that. 

Via the "whispering game" mentioned before, as the news was passed from family member to family member, the word "forced" became "jemmied".   Information via passed word gets changed all the time.  Surely you know that?


You are merely speculating, as are all the Mccann sceptics.


Time to get your mind in order, Faith.  One does not apportion blame on speculation, or myths, alone.

Yes, the inability of certain posters to allow for such matters is very telling.

[Angelo222]

Amaral might have been stood down by this point in the saga but another reason why suspicions were targeted towards the McCanns was down to Martin Smith.  When he saw images of Gerry McCann carrying one of the twins down the steps of the aircraft which brought them back to England he was immediately reminded of images of what he had seen in Praia da Luz some months earlier.   He was so sure he went to the police and voiced his suspicions.  Had Gerry McCann not had an alibi for 10pm that night I fear he would have had some serious questions to answer.

It should always be remembered that the McCanns were the last known people to see Madeleine alive which puts them firmly at the forefront in any missing child investigation.

[sadie]

Amaral might have been stood down by this point in the saga but another reason why suspicions were targeted towards the McCanns was down to Martin Smith.  When he saw images of Gerry McCann carrying one of the twins down the steps of the aircraft which brought them back to England he was immediately reminded of images of what he had seen in Praia da Luz some months earlier.   He was so sure he went to the police and voiced his suspicions.  Had Gerry McCann not had an alibi for 10pm that night I fear he would have had some serious questions to answer.

Well that would have been a potential gross injustice, wouldn't it, Angelo?

Lucky so many people were able to vouch for Gerry.