Author Topic: Forensic evidence. Was there really none ?  (Read 17500 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Forensic evidence. Was there really none ?
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2015, 10:03:01 AM »
Why do you insist on calling scipio ~ Paul, when he's told you that his name is John?



Why does Scipio insist that I have "problems" stemming from the fact that I am adoptee?

"You spend your life ignoring evidence and procedures to try to support your pretense of Jeremy being innocent so you cna use that to make your silly arguments about people who are adopted because you have whatever problems from your own adoption".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5914.msg214325#msg214325

This is not the first time and I doubt it will be the last!

 *&(+(+ for the image.  It seems a reasonable assumption that the blood found on the weapon was from NB being beaten with it but there's no conclusive evidence of this.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: Forensic evidence. Was there really none ?
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2015, 10:32:17 AM »
"The appearance of the blood staining was consistent with it having been used to strike somebody who was already bleeding."

Now let me think who that person could have been?  &%+((£

Mmmm... defence wounds from a narrow object on his right arm, and some frontal skull fractures inconsistent with being caused just by bullet damage according to the pathologist.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Forensic evidence. Was there really none ?
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2015, 11:23:37 AM »
This site recounts the evidence thousands of times including many posts from myself listing same.

I can understand being a newbie but a newbie should not come to conclusions without doing some research and the most basic research of all is to research the evidence that convicted the defendant.

Relevant facts:

A) Sheila was shot with the moderator attached to the gun.  The fatal shot was a contact wound.  The location of the fatal shot and it being a contact wound means that drawback would have resulted.  Drawback means blood is drawn several inches into the weapon.  The blood sprays into the weapon. The moderator had her blood on the first 8 baffles.  The lab scraped all visible blood from these baffles.  The defense expert still managed to find microscopic traces on the first 8 baffles. In contrast there was no blood in the barrel of the rifle.  had she been shot with the rifle sans moderator then her blood would have been in the rifle not inside the moderator.

B) If Sheila loaded the rifle she would have had elevated lead deposits on her hand and in fact there would have been visible black marks on her hands

C) If Sheila fired the rifle she would have had GSR on her hands and clothing.  In order to kill herself she would have to have hugged the rifle and her gown would have had GSR deposited on it.  Her gown and hands were negative for GSR though she didn't even have a single particle though.

D) If Sheila had shot June and Neville then she would have had high velocity impact blood spatter from these victims on her clothing.  The shooter was close enough that the backspatter would have gotten on the shooter.

E) If Sheila had beaten Neville then she would have had medium velocity impact spatter on her clothing. During the beating from the rifle his blood got all over the weapon and would have gotten on the killer as well.

F) Since the weapon was covered in blood the killer's fingerprints would have been found in such blood unless the killer was wearing gloves.  There were no gloves at the scene that Sheila could have worn and no reason for her to wear gloves if she planned to commit murder suicide.  People wear gloves when they hope to avoid liability.

G) After the murders the moderator was removed from the rifle and put away in the downstairs closet. Quite obviously Sheila could not have done this after she was dead.

H) After the murders the bible was placed in a pool of blood that formed after Sheila's death and while the blood was still wet the bible was closed then reopened.  The closing of the bible resulted in a mirror image on 2 adjacent pages. The blood did not flow around the bible the bible was placed in the blood pool.  Quite obviously Sheila could not have done such after she was dead.

I) Jeremy claims that he took a box of ammo that was full or near full from the closet and dumped it out in the kitchen.  A full box contained 50 rounds so that is the maximum.  25 rounds were used during the murders. There thus should have been no more than 25 rounds remaining.  There were 30 rounds remaining. This proves Jeremy staged these bullets after the murders because there is no way the killer would have used 20 bullets form this supply and decided to go to the closet to get 5 additional rounds instead of continuing to use the same supply.

J) Sheila would have damaged her nails while beating Nevill with the rifle and would have cut her hand when the stock of the rifle broke.  Only if the killer was wearing gloves would the stock cracking not result in cutting or at least scratching the hand of the killer that was on the stock. It broke exactly where one of the killer's hands would have been while using it to bludgeon Neville. This is likely what tore off Jeremy's glove which he told julie had happened.


The evidence shows that Sheila didn't load the weapon, didn't fire the weapon, wasn't near her mother or father when they were shot, wasn't near her father when he was beaten, and can't have shot herself.  Someone else killed everyone then afterwards removed the moderator, put it int he closet and while her blood was sitll wet placed the bible in pool of her blood.

There is no question of Jeremy's guilt to anyone who actually is aware of the facts and evidence and is objective enough to face it instead of irrationally ignoring it.

If you want to maintain that SC's "gown" was free of GSR and high/medium velocity impact spatter you need to overcome the conundrum of the contents of the buckets.  Fact is you are unable to.  See your posts below along with AE's WS and trial testimony which are both highly contradictory and in places wrong ie the photos.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=77.msg214332#msg214332

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=77.msg214336#msg214336

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5913.msg214258#msg214258

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5913.msg214298#msg214298

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5913.msg214299#msg214299

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5913.msg214312#msg214312

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5913.msg214726#msg214726

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5913.msg214735#msg214735
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Forensic evidence. Was there really none ?
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2015, 11:24:27 AM »
Problem is .22 calibre rimfire bullets are very small. You could not leave a full fingerprint or even a fraction of a fingerprint on one of them as they are smaller than your prints themselves.



The first one to the left of the 1 cent coin a .22 caliber. Its purpose is to kill pests like rabbits foxes or target shooting ect. Hence why its small and legal to posses if licensed 



 *&(+(+ for the explanation David.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Forensic evidence. Was there really none ?
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2015, 05:06:20 PM »
Why does Scipio insist that I have "problems" stemming from the fact that I am adoptee?

"You spend your life ignoring evidence and procedures to try to support your pretense of Jeremy being innocent so you cna use that to make your silly arguments about people who are adopted because you have whatever problems from your own adoption".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5914.msg214325#msg214325

This is not the first time and I doubt it will be the last!

 *&(+(+ for the image.  It seems a reasonable assumption that the blood found on the weapon was from NB being beaten with it but there's no conclusive evidence of this.

I don't have a problem with your adoption you do.  You are the one who constantly talks about the troubles your adoption caused you and then try to use that to say Sheila had problems because of her adoption and this caused her to commit the crimes.  You ignore all the evidence of this case to suit in order to advance your adoption agenda.  I have repeatedly railed against your attack on adoptees.

As for them not proving through blood tests that the blood was Nevill's, so what?

WHo else's blood could it be?  The blood was medium velociy impact spatter and got there from the victim being beated with the rifle.  Other than Nevill who was beaten with the rifle?  Nevill was the only one beaten and bleeding from such wounds period.  teh only wounds to the other victms were gunshot wounds and gunshot wounds do not result in medium velicty impact spatter.  There is no need to confirm it is Neville's blood via a test we already know because he is the only one who could have deposited such blood.  Beyond a reaosnable doubt it is his blood.  It is not reasonable to believe that there was a third party, that this third party was beaten with the rifle and it is this third party's blood. It is not reaosnable to believe Jeremy was beaten with the rifle and it was his blood. If jeremy bled on it then the blood would have dripped not been medium velocity spatter. If he did get a small cut and bleed on it and his blood was mixed with Neville's so no one noticed the passive drip and thus they missed a chance to test it and prove it was Jeremy's blood that error benefits Jeremy and doesn't change the fact that other blood was surely Neville's.

It also doesn't change the fact that Neville's blood would have gotten on the killer as well not just the weapon. Moreover, unless the killer were wearing gloves the killer would have gotten his/her prints in the blood and since blood would have been on his/her fingers there was a strong likelihood of leaving bloody fingerprints on more than just the weapon. When the stock broke it would have cut or at least scratched the hand of the person holding the gun.  Only gloves would prevent such.  In combination this proves the killer was wearing gloves.




“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Forensic evidence. Was there really none ?
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2015, 08:28:47 PM »
I don't have a problem with your adoption you do.  You are the one who constantly talks about the troubles your adoption caused you and then try to use that to say Sheila had problems because of her adoption and this caused her to commit the crimes.  You ignore all the evidence of this case to suit in order to advance your adoption agenda.  I have repeatedly railed against your attack on adoptees.

As for them not proving through blood tests that the blood was Nevill's, so what?

WHo else's blood could it be?  The blood was medium velociy impact spatter and got there from the victim being beated with the rifle.  Other than Nevill who was beaten with the rifle?  Nevill was the only one beaten and bleeding from such wounds period.  teh only wounds to the other victms were gunshot wounds and gunshot wounds do not result in medium velicty impact spatter.  There is no need to confirm it is Neville's blood via a test we already know because he is the only one who could have deposited such blood.  Beyond a reaosnable doubt it is his blood.  It is not reasonable to believe that there was a third party, that this third party was beaten with the rifle and it is this third party's blood. It is not reaosnable to believe Jeremy was beaten with the rifle and it was his blood. If jeremy bled on it then the blood would have dripped not been medium velocity spatter. If he did get a small cut and bleed on it and his blood was mixed with Neville's so no one noticed the passive drip and thus they missed a chance to test it and prove it was Jeremy's blood that error benefits Jeremy and doesn't change the fact that other blood was surely Neville's.

It also doesn't change the fact that Neville's blood would have gotten on the killer as well not just the weapon. Moreover, unless the killer were wearing gloves the killer would have gotten his/her prints in the blood and since blood would have been on his/her fingers there was a strong likelihood of leaving bloody fingerprints on more than just the weapon. When the stock broke it would have cut or at least scratched the hand of the person holding the gun.  Only gloves would prevent such.  In combination this proves the killer was wearing gloves.

Perhaps you would like to retrieve some of my posts where I have made reference to having problems with adoption. 

You ignore all the evidence, supported by research from your  8(0(* Ivy league unis, pertaining to ADOPTION, ATTACHMENT and NEUROSCIENCE and want to live in the past discussing the bike, phone calls, and windows like a Neanderthal man.  Move on... 30 years have passed since the WHF murders.  You are living in the past if you think what applied in 1985/6 is relevant in 2015.

I agree the blood found on the outside of the rifle most likely originated from NB.

You have no idea how the stock broke so please stop claiming that it would have caused damage to the perp's hand as you don't know, no more than I do.  And you don't know whether or not EP followed procedures to preserve prints on the weapon, made mistakes, backtracked and wiped thus removing prints.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 11:41:43 AM by John »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Forensic evidence. Was there really none ?
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2015, 01:51:58 AM »
Perhaps you would like to retrieve some of my posts where I have made reference to having problems with adoption. 

You ignore all the evidence, supported by research from your  8(0(* Ivy league unis, pertaining to ADOPTION, ATTACHMENT and NEUROSCIENCE and want to live in the past discussing the bike, phone calls, and windows like a Neanderthal man.  Move on... 30 years have passed since the WHF murders.  You are living in the past if you think what applied in 1985/6 is relevant in 2015.

I agree the blood found on the outside of the rifle most likely originated from NB.

You have no idea how the stock broke so please stop claiming that it would have caused damage to the perp's hand as you don't know, no more than I do.  And you don't know whether or not EP followed procedures to preserve prints on the weapon, made mistakes, backtracked and wiped thus removing prints.

I do know how it broke because of the way it broke and the way Nevill was being bashed.

The way you bash someone with the butt of the rifle is you hold one hand on the stock where the stock narrows so you can get your hand around it and the other hand will be on the forward grip. That is the way Neville's head was bashed in and the damage done to his arms.

The stock cracked in several places.  One crack was inside the stock.  The stock is partially hollow and a piece of metal from the gun slides inside the stock. The stock is then screwed to the gun.  There is a crack inside where the stock hit the gun because the killer was pushing the butt into Neville's head so you have Neville's head pushing one way and the killer pushing the other so the stock and the rifle are being pressed together. The other crack was where the gun met the stock as well. Both cracks were lateral.  The crack near the top actually tore off part of the stock because of where it broke and it broke right on the narrow portion where the killer's hand was. Both cracks in the stock were made as the stock was compressed from being bashed into Neville.

  The knob at the left end rests inside the hole that is in the stock. 

We went over this in the past.  You ignore it because you always ignore all evidence that works against your agenda which is to blame Sheila so you can present your pathetic adoption theories.

You ridiculously suggest she using it like a club. Aside from that making no sense, had someone used it as a club then the breaks would have been up and down in the stock instead of side to side.  In fact the stock would have likely broken off if used as a club because the hollow part would have cracked.  Moreover, the gun itself would have been damaged if used as a club.  The gun itself is actually 2 halves held together by a screw. The barrel could be bent or broken from the receiver if the weapon is used as a bat.

With the screw removed the weapon looks like this:


 
If I take a bat and I whack the floor with it hard enough to crack the bat which way will the cracks run?  The will run width wise.

handle _______________________________
           [______I_________________________ Tip

The crack will run like the I.  That is why bats snap in half if you hit them hard enough against something.

What if the head of the bat were hit into the ground instead of the sides of the bat?  Then if you manage to crack the bat the cracks will run lengthwise like the dotted line.

handle _______________________________
          -----------------------------------------
          ________________________________ Tip

The cracks in the stock ran lengthwise and that is because the butt of the weapon was being thrust into Nevill it was not being used like a bat.

« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 02:00:45 AM by scipio_usmc »
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

david1819

  • Guest
Re: Forensic evidence. Was there really none ?
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2015, 03:51:34 AM »
I'm also adopted myself as it goes. I don't think its of any importance of this case. thou I could be wrong

Sef Gonzales, Brian Blackwell and the Manendez Brothers to name a few killed their parents and other family members. None of them where adopted.

Sef Gonzales before he was suspected sang the song 'One Sweet Day' infront the whole church at this families funeral! What a freak! you could not make it up



Offline Myster

Re: Forensic evidence. Was there really none ?
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2015, 07:27:23 AM »
I'm also adopted myself as it goes. I don't think its of any importance of this case. thou I could be wrong

Sef Gonzales, Brian Blackwell and the Manendez Brothers to name a few killed their parents and other family members. None of them where adopted.

Sef Gonzales before he was suspected sang the song 'One Sweet Day' infront the whole church at this families funeral! What a freak! you could not make it up
No, you're right david -  the WHF murders were motivated solely by greed, as in those perpetrated by Stephen Seddon and Roderick Newall, not by any crackpot adoption theories. Sef Gonzales is Jeremy Bamber down to a tee, even visiting the family accountant shortly after the murders to see how much he was worth, pawning his mother's jewellery, selling off his parents' cars and placing a deposit on a new luxury Lexus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sef_Gonzales

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY8TF1t4ZaA

Cue Holly: - "I see no connection with these cases and Jeremy Bamber's!"
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline adam

Re: Forensic evidence. Was there really none ?
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2015, 11:10:28 AM »
Another inheritance killing which has some similarities with the Bamber case is Steve Benson - 

Same year.

Benson also tried to kill his sister.

He also tried and succeeded in killing another relative.

Benson tried to look upset at the televised funeral.

Benson had been committing financial crimes against his family. Similar to Neville & June finding out about the caravan site.

His mother was also considering disinheriting him.

The jury reached a verdict quickly, as also in the Bamber case.

Benson also wanted to live beyond his means. And did not like having to depend on his mother. Another video says he did not like the controlling influence his mother tried to exert. Similar to what Jeremy told Julie.

Benson planted a car bomb.  Surely he would have been the number one suspect. But as Jeremy said after robbing the caravan site 'they will never be able to prove it'. However they could prove it was Benson. It just takes one mistake.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 11:24:53 AM by adam »

Offline John

Re: Forensic evidence. Was there really none ?
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2015, 11:46:14 AM »
Just when you mention disinheriting, that could very well have been the trigger for Jeremy.  With the twins growing up fast there was every likelihood that they would also have inherited which would see Jeremy's share diluted even further.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 06:25:12 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline adam

Re: Forensic evidence. Was there really none ?
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2015, 11:57:16 AM »
Just when you mention disinheriting, that could very well have been the trigger for Jeremy.  With the twins growing up fast there was every likelihood that they would also have inherited which would see Jeremy's share diluted even further.

Julie's mother Mary Mugford testified that Jeremy said June was planning to give the twins a larger share of her will.

david1819

  • Guest
Re: Forensic evidence. Was there really none ?
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2015, 01:36:00 PM »
No, you're right david -  the WHF murders were motivated solely by greed, as in those perpetrated by Stephen Seddon and Roderick Newall, not by any crackpot adoption theories. Sef Gonzales is Jeremy Bamber down to a tee, even visiting the family accountant shortly after the murders to see how much he was worth, pawning his mother's jewellery, selling off his parents' cars and placing a deposit on a new luxury Lexus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sef_Gonzales

Cue Holly: - "I see no connection with these cases and Jeremy Bamber's!"

Sef Gonzales singing at the funeral. Makes Jeremy seem well adjusted in comparison

http://youtu.be/-YV8uQIgbYE?t=22m53s

But Jeremy never sang at the funeral is this another clue in the riddle?  &%+((£  @)(++(*
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 01:42:37 PM by david1819 »

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Forensic evidence. Was there really none ?
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2015, 03:53:41 PM »
I'm also adopted myself as it goes. I don't think its of any importance of this case. thou I could be wrong

Sef Gonzales, Brian Blackwell and the Manendez Brothers to name a few killed their parents and other family members. None of them where adopted.

Sef Gonzales before he was suspected sang the song 'One Sweet Day' infront the whole church at this families funeral! What a freak! you could not make it up

Some argue that because Jeremy was adopted he had less attachment to his family and was thus able to kill them.  Of course bilogical children commit the same crimes of greed so trying to say it was because of his adoption doesn't really work.

When adoption plays a role it is usually because the parents treat their adopted children like crap and they kill for revenge or to prevent future abuse.  That is not exclusive to adopted kids either though, abuse can happen whether kids are biological or not.

None of this is implicated in this case though. 
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Forensic evidence. Was there really none ?
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2015, 05:49:09 PM »
No, you're right david -  the WHF murders were motivated solely by greed, as in those perpetrated by Stephen Seddon and Roderick Newall, not by any crackpot adoption theories. Sef Gonzales is Jeremy Bamber down to a tee, even visiting the family accountant shortly after the murders to see how much he was worth, pawning his mother's jewellery, selling off his parents' cars and placing a deposit on a new luxury Lexus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sef_Gonzales

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY8TF1t4ZaA

Cue Holly: - "I see no connection with these cases and Jeremy Bamber's!"

David/Myster

If you wish to draw on other cases and compare them with WHF you need to compare apples with apples; not apples with pears.  The cases you mention:

- Sef Gonzales
- Brian Blackwell
- Menendez Brothers
- Stephen Seddon
- Roderick Newall

did not involve a trial where the jury had to decide whether the prosecution were right and one sibling, JB, murdered his family out of greed and hatred, or the defence were right and the other sibling, SC, murdered her family due to her state of mind.  In the WHF case the prosecution and defence ruled out any third party.

Cue Myster: - I doubt David's adoptive mother suffered severe depression, requiring in-patient psychiatric care and electro-convulsive treatment, as a result of adopting him. 

I still love you Myster despite our differences x

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?