Author Topic: For alias and other Jeremy supporters arguing the following illogical claim  (Read 17801 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline scipio_usmc

"EP initially believed it to be murder, suicide, so to say that it was impossible that Sheila had done it is a stretch."

What a cop or anyone else is willing to believe has no bearing at all on whether something is impossible or not.

What matters is whether objective evidence proves something.  You are bringing up the opinions of people who were unaware of the complete objective evidence at the time they formed their opinion.  They based their opinion solely on Jeremy's claims and the way the scene looked.

The very people you cite changed their minds after they were made aware of all the relevant evidence including evidence that established Jeremy had been lying to them.

Since you can't prove the evidence wrong you instead go back to the early hours of the investigation when they had been fooled and make the irraitonal claim that because they were fooled this somehow means that it was possible for Sheila to have committed the murders.

Your argument fails miserably.

31
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 02:50:30 PM by John »
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline John

Like so many, me included, I can remember the event quite clearly and remember thinking what sort of a lunatic would have done such a thing.  It never crossed my mind that the adopted son could have done such a terrible deed to his own family and especially to two sleeping youngsters.

And like most people, I was not privy to the evidence in the case at that point and was reliant on Press reports for any news.

Jeremy set out to take advantage of Sheilas presence at the farmhouse, it was an opportunity he could not miss.  All that had gone on in the weeks and months prior to that fateful night reveal that he had murder on his mind for some time.  In the end though he came to realise that killing June and Nevill would not get him what he wanted, he had to get rid of Sheila and the boys as well.

On the morning of the murders Jeremy's conduct was clearly that of a culpable individual but that was not immediately recognizable to the police with one exception and that was DS Stan Jones.  Jones was a seasoned detective and he wasn't for taking anything for granted.  When he inadvertently encountered Jeremy and Julie behaving oddly just hours after the murders his suspicions were truly raised.  He must have thought all his Christmas's had come at once the day Julie Mugford walked into his office.

In the end the whole sorry saga unravelled and the police began to realise that they had been played from the very first phone call to them.  A crazy sister with a history of mental health problems goes berserk with a rifle which had been conveniently laid out the previous night.  The police bought it, hook, line and sinker!  A clear cut case of four murders and a suicide as DC Taff Jones called it just before he sped off to the golf course and a destiny which within weeks would see him fall from a ladder at home and sustain fatal injuries.

It's a true saying though, you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.  {attributed to Abraham Lincoln}
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 01:16:34 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Like so many, me included, I can remember the event quite clearly and remember thinking what sort of a lunatic would have done such a thing.  It never crossed my mind that the adopted son could have done such a terrible deed to his own family and especially to two sleeping youngsters.

And like most people, I was not privy to the evidence in the case at that point and was reliant on Press reports for any news.

Jeremy set out to take advantage of Sheilas presence at the farmhouse, it was an opportunity he could not miss.  All that had gone on in the weeks and months prior to that fateful night reveal that he had murder on his mind for some time.  In the end though he came to realise that killing June and Nevill would not get him what he wanted, he had to get rid of Sheila and the boys as well.

On the morning of the murders Jeremy's conduct was clearly that of a culpable individual but that was not immediately recognizable to the police with one exception and that was DS Stan Jones.  Jones was a seasoned detective and he wasn't for taking anything for granted.  When he inadvertently encountered Jeremy and Julie behaving oddly just hours after the murders his suspicions were truly raised.  He must have thought all his Christmas's had come at once the day Julie Mugford walked into his office.

In the end the whole sorry saga unravelled and the police began to realise that they had been played from the very first phone call to them.  A crazy sister with a history of mental health problems goes berserk with a rifle which had been conveniently laid out the previous night.  The police bought it, hook, line and sinker!  A clear cut case of four murders and a suicide as DC Taff Jones called it just before he sped off to the golf course and a destiny which within weeks would see him fall from a ladder at home and sustain fatal injuries.

It's a true saying though, you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.  {attributed to Abraham Lincoln}

In order to secure JB's conviction the only people that needed fooling some of the time were the jurors...and they were {attributed to me}
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 10:50:21 AM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline John

In order to secure JB's conviction the only people that needed fooling some of the time were the jurors...and they were {attributed to me}

I don't believe so Holly.  The two who voted not guilty must have been asleep!
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Myster

... or they fancied the pants off Johnny Broom's look-a-like.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline John

... or they fancied the pants off Johnny Broom's look-a-like.

Does anyone know if the two dissenters were female?   8)-)))
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 02:19:50 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Daisy

Yes they were two young women and when the verdict was read out they cried.  I was told this by one of Jeremy's friends and he confirmed this is correct.

Offline Myster

It figures...  8()-000(

« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 02:24:15 PM by John »
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline scipio_usmc

In order to secure JB's conviction the only people that needed fooling some of the time were the jurors...and they were {attributed to me}

You mean Jeremy needed to fool the jury to be acquitted or in the alternative fool the prosecutor so that he was never tried.

Since the Knox case is back in the news again that is something different in Italy.  The lead investigator handles the prosecution as well. In our systems the prosecution decides whether to try a case not the investigators.  Also we have and indictment process for major crimes a prosecutor decides whether to seek an indictment.

 
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Holly Goodhead

Yes they were two young women and when the verdict was read out they cried.  I was told this by one of Jeremy's friends and he confirmed this is correct.

Hello Daisy.  Good to see you posting again  8((()*/
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

It figures...  8()-000(

http://youtu.be/LS37SNYjg8w

Hahaha that is funny.  Reminds me of when I need air in my tyres and ask some poor unsuspecting male at a filling station "Are you in a hurry"?  8**8:/:  So far the answer has always been along the lines of "No, why?"  "I think my tyres might need some air in and I'm not sure how to do it  8**8:/: We move to air with me sitting in warm car and man getting horribly blown about, wet, cold and dirty hands @)(++(*
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 02:27:03 PM by John »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

You mean Jeremy needed to fool the jury to be acquitted or in the alternative fool the prosecutor so that he was never tried.

Since the Knox case is back in the news again that is something different in Italy.  The lead investigator handles the prosecution as well. In our systems the prosecution decides whether to try a case not the investigators.  Also we have and indictment process for major crimes a prosecutor decides whether to seek an indictment.

Jeremy doesn't strike me as capable of fooling anyone as evidenced by the fact he has no idea how a silencer works 

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/silencer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-keuXw5xfRs

What a numpty  @)(++(*
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Hahaha that is funny.  Reminds me of when I need air in my tyres and ask some poor unsuspecting male at a filling station "Are you in a hurry"?  8**8:/:  So far the answer has always been along the lines of "No, why?"  "I think my tyres might need some air in and I'm not sure how to do it  8**8:/: We move to air with me sitting in warm car and man getting horribly blown about, wet, cold and dirty hands @)(++(*
While I'm on a roll...

http://vk.com/videos4894493?z=video4894493_143102559
Never realised you were so good-looking!  Ditch the psi (pounds per square inch) and we'll get on fine.  8(>((

I thought only Northerners were numpties?  &%+((£
 
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

"EP initially believed it to be murder, suicide, so to say that it was impossible that Sheila had done it is a stretch."

What a cop or anyone else is willing to believe has no bearing at all on whether something is impossible or not.

What matters is whether objective evidence proves something.  You are bringing up the opinions of people who were unaware of the complete objective evidence at the time they formed their opinion.  They based their opinion solely on Jeremy's claims and the way the scene looked.

The very people you cite changed their minds after they were made aware of all the relevant evidence including evidence that established Jeremy had been lying to them.

Since you can't prove the evidence wrong you instead go back to the early hours of the investigation when they had been fooled and make the irraitonal claim that because they were fooled this somehow means that it was possible for Sheila to have committed the murders.

Your argument fails miserably.


What evidence established JB lied?

If EP had any concrete evidence against JB why allow a potential mass murderer to roam about for 53 days and worse still (one of your favourite sayings) allow him to leave the country twice?  He was not interviewed under caution until 10th September 1985.  And not charged with the murders until 29th September 1985. 

How Dr Craig viewed the scene at 8.10am on 7th Aug '85:

"38. At 8.10 a.m., Dr Craig attended the scene to formally certify the deaths. In cross-examination at the trial he said the deaths could have occurred at any time during the previous night. The appearance of Sheila Caffell's body suggested to him that the wounds had been inflicted by her own hand. In answer to the judge the witness made it clear this was not an opinion the jury should rely upon as a true indication that the injuries had been self-inflicted."

How Dr Vanezis viewed the victims and feedback from EP

"We then had a candid discussion during which the only dissenter from the murder/suicide theory was D/Sgt JONES.  I gained the impression that he did not discount the murder/suicide theory but that he was uneasy with the reaction he was getting from Jeremy."

"We mentioned a number of points which I recall tended to relate to Jeremy's general reactions which D/Sgt JONES did not think compatible with the manner in which he expected him to react.  Whilst respecting his views there was nothing impressive about what he said and certainly I cannot recall anything of evidential substance to the effect that Sheila could not have done it."   

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206.0;attach=740

How EP Viewed The Case In The Early Days:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5616.msg199700#msg199700

The turning point from the late DI Miller @ 22.50 in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDpM7W4OVck

"This startling revelation (JM's testimony) along with the blood results from the silencer gave the police two strong indications that SC may not have killed her family.  Their attention quickly turned to Jeremy Bamber".

@ 24.00 in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDpM7W4OVck

"With her statement (JM) and also the evidence found by the family (silencer) DI Miller and his team were keen to turn the investigation round"

"Mick Ainsley, Sergeant Jones, myself, Taff Jones were in an office at Witham police station we related of what we'd got  from Julie Mugford and Mike Ainsley went round the circle of us said right what do you think?  Taff Jones said I'm sticking with what I've always said that she's committed the murders and shot herself.  He said to Stan Jones what do you think.  He said well I think Jeremy's done it.  And he said to me what do you think and I said well this witness (JM) seems very plausible.  As far as I was concerned there was enough evidence to bring in and charge with the murders Jeremy Bamber AT THAT POINT.

"Jeremy Bamber was interviewed and charged with 5 counts of murder on 29th September 1985".
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 02:28:42 PM by John »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Daisy

Hello Daisy.  Good to see you posting again  8((()*/


Thank you Holly. I will only post if there is a question asked which I know the answer to. I don't want to get involved in arguments with others.  However I will say still no submissions to the CCRC despite Jeremy telling me 16 months ago "we have the last pieces of the jigsaw. I will soon be free"