Author Topic: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment  (Read 25181 times)

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Offline Carana

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2015, 06:48:32 PM »
Maybe my link will work. Did this one not have a link?

Yes, but it was a google translate of the original - which is no longer online. I think I can remember some of the points that came out garbled.

I might even experiment with re-google-translating it back into Portuguese... but there's no guarantee that it won't get even more mangled in the process.

Offline Carana

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2015, 06:56:42 PM »

AP - And Leonor also consumed drugs?

L.S. - Not even drank the more drugging. Just sometimes drank a licorzinho.


The meaning of what he said in the original was that she didn't even drink, let alone take drugs. She occasionally had a "licorzinho" (a small alcoholic drink of some kind).

Offline Anna

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2015, 06:57:44 PM »
Yes, but it was a google translate of the original - which is no longer online. I think I can remember some of the points that came out garbled.

I might even experiment with re-google-translating it back into Portuguese... but there's no guarantee that it won't get even more mangled in the process.

This translation is very poor and doesn't look like it has been tidied up, so it possibly will translate back. It's worth a try. Google is better now than it was a few years ago.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Carana

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2015, 07:01:17 PM »
This translation is very poor and doesn't look like it has been tidied up, so it possibly will translate back. It's worth a try. Google is better now than it was a few years ago.

No... not really.

Fart is crying. And asked: "Where is my daughter? Where is my daughter? "Just crying.

Fart está chorando. E perguntou: "Onde está a minha filha Onde está a minha filha?" Just chorando.


Doesn't really help, does it?  &%+((£

From the context, "Fart" is somehow Leonor... not very intuitive.

Offline Anna

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2015, 07:01:48 PM »
AP - And Leonor also consumed drugs?

L.S. - Not even drank the more drugging. Just sometimes drank a licorzinho.


The meaning of what he said in the original was that she didn't even drink, let alone take drugs. She occasionally had a "licorzinho" (a small alcoholic drink of some kind).

Yes, it is pretty garbled,
I think it should read..........................
AP - And Leonor also consumed alcohol?

L.S. - Never even drank the strong alcohol, Just sometimes drank a licorzinho.[/i]
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Carana

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2015, 07:25:42 PM »

AP - How was the relationship with Eleanor Jane?

L.S. - Good. Joana could tell him everything she answered nothing. Expected me to come home to tell me I give a 'castigozinho' the girl, who was put you in the room to do the homework. And just get out of there when I was done.


I remember what this was.

AP (journalist's name presumably) asked him what Leonor's relationship with Joana was like.

LS replied that it was good. Joana could be sometimes be cheeky (answer back) but Leonor didn't react, preferring to ask him to deal with whatever small punishment was deemed appropriate, which was generally to make her go to her room to do her homework and not come out until she'd finished. From memory, it was instead of letting her watch TV.

The bottom line (from that little extract and elsewhere) was that Leonor had never mistreated her and had apparently never even slapped her.

Offline Anna

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2015, 07:27:49 PM »
I don't know how this should read though.

A.P-ever suspicious of his wife? Never surprised all of that situation?

L.S. - Dona Leonor? Never! Relied much on it. I continue to trust, even though sometimes look like a little dick.
 @)(++(*
Think it should be

A.P-ever suspicious of your wife? Never surprised at all, of that situation?

L.S. - Dona Leonor? Never! I Relied much on her. I continue to trust, even though sometimes I look a little foolish.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Carana

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2015, 07:31:44 PM »
I don't know how this should read though.

A.P-ever suspicious of his wife? Never surprised all of that situation?

L.S. - Dona Leonor? Never! Relied much on it. I continue to trust, even though sometimes look like a little dick.
 @)(++(*
Think it should be

A.P-ever suspicious of your wife? Never surprised at all, of that situation?

L.S. - Dona Leonor? Never! I Relied much on her. I continue to trust, even though sometimes I look a little foolish.

LOL There's no point trying to clean up the gibberish without the original at hand.

I'd waded through the original several times, so I remember what some points were.

Offline Anna

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2015, 07:24:08 PM »
Found the translated one. Part1
I suspect that a lady who lived in Figueira is involved in the disappearance of Joana
If Joan - 12:09:06
Leandro Silva, stepfather of Joana Cipriano, who disappeared on 12/09/2004 the village of Figueira (Portimão) while returning home after going shopping for the mother continues to believe that the child, then eight years old, was abducted or sold. Killed by own mother and an uncle, as has been proven by the court in Portimão, is not
The first hypothesis, Leandro takes first at the interview to 'Algarve press' its suspicion about the possible involvement of a friend of Joan, who ended up moving to England. In relation to any such sale, admits that "Drugtaker" Uncle Joao "is capable of anything." Complains of the conduct of the Judicial Police and believes that "this story is badly told from the beginning."
Beja Prison, where he is serving a sentence reduced recently by the Supreme Court for 16 years after having been declared, along with his brother Joao Manuel, guilty of murder and hiding the corpse of her daughter (who has not yet appeared) by the court consisting of first instance judges, Leonor Cipriano continues to claim her innocence.
Pinheiro da Cruz of the prison, close to Sines, says that the uncle of Joana says girl was sold by her own mother and the money is held by the stepfather, who both deny the family. PJ, in turn, remains convinced that the minor was eaten by pdoubts and contradictions, the only certainty is that, two years later, no one knows the whereabouts of Joana or that she may still remain.

Algarve Press - Today, after exactly two years since the disappearance of his stepdaughter, Joana Cipriano, from the village of Figueira, near Portimão, where the family lived, what they think, in fact, happened?

Leandro Silva - I still think she has been kidnapped. In the latter case,(eaten by pigs) it has not happened, and  she was sold only to people who treated her well. Still is not. Do not believe it.
AP - Why believe in selling?
LS - I do not know ... But as the mother of Joao (Joana uncle) says that derived drugs and stuff he is capable of it ...
AP - Suspected then that João Cipriano had sold his niece?
LS - For he believe everything and anything. But at the outset, I still thought mainly that Joana was kidnapped.
AP - His family has insisted that someone from Figueira could be involved in this situation? You also believe that?
LS - I believe. A lady eventually went to England even before the trial, ie, a year after Joan disappeared. My whole family thinks she may be involved in this case.
AP - In the Prison of Beja, where almost two years, she  has now been,  did Leonor Cipriano, Joana's mother, ever mention that the girl could have been taken by someone linked to Figueira?
LS - The Leonor also thinks the same as us. And this lady spoke mainly because having thought go away shortly after the disappearance of Joana. She was a close friend of Joana, gave her clothing and toys. Everything.
AP - But just why do you sall think she might be behind the disappearance of the child?
LS - No, it's not just that. It's the way she left the country, I mean: large business that had to go in Figueira to work for others?
AP - But this lady you are alluding to, was a witness (in a recorded statement for future memory) in the Joana case trial in Court of Portimão, which went on to say that the only thing we did not do and should have done was taken the girl to the family ...
LS - Look, this is also one more thing... Well ... Give so you think ... This lady  once took Joana to Hospital in Portimao, because of a cough. And at the same time, I think, at least according to reports, that came after the disappearance of Joana, She asked for medical tests to find out if she had been raped.
Do not know which was her idea. But she even asked my parents (in this case my stepfather) if he could take the girl to the doctor or anything. The mother of Joana was at home.
AP - came asking for explanations for what happened to this lady?
LS - No, no. At the time we did not take it Seriously .
AP-When did you begin to suspect her?
LS - When she was gone from Figueira.
AP - Did you ever talk to the Judiciary Police on this, your assumption?
LS - No.
AP - But by the time that Joana disappeared, this lady was in the Algarve and was even the most committed people to work with the family to try to locate the girl, and the PJ in investigations. So how could she be involved in this case?
LS - I do not know, do not know. But I suspect it, I suspect. She is the only one who, until today, I think it may have done something. It was she who always walked with the girl. When she saw her, would soon talk to her. Until death, and while there is no indication to the contrary, I will continue to think the same way.


Leonor could neither kill a chicken or know how, Let alone, cut her daughter up and give it to the pigs

AP - But the Judiciary continues to think that Joana was killed in the house where she lived, in the village of Figueira, and the body quartered and eaten by pigs in a piggery, hence eventually come out and be slaughtered. What do you think of this release?
LS - I think not. That the pigs I did it to them (PJ) where they were when they sent me to talk to the Judicial with Leonor in Faro. If I had not spoken to them in pigs, there was nobody. As I said in animals, said as soon as Joana had been given to the pigs.  Leonor nor would it expedient. Neither kill a chicken or  know how too, much more cut her daughter up and give it to the Pigs.
AP - Where did this information on pigs come from?
LS - It was bullshit. The Leonor told me in the place, although I do not know if because she took a hit in Judicial or being instructed to do so. I do not know. I know  that she told me, this road where there was a house and old cars. I told her that this road was because I knew there once. And I know there are some old cars and the only old house located in the area. And there were pigs, which she confirmed to me at the time. Of course I mean the Judicial what they asked me to ask her. That's where from  this question was born pigs. And the PJ went with me to the place according to the particulars of Leonor. Now, I do not know if even pigs eat human flesh or not. What I do know is that the judiciary was investigating and it seems that they found nothing. Surely if anything, there would have been hair or other things there.
AP - But what did Leonor tell you specifically about pigs?
LS - She told me that Joao (the brother) had taken the girl piggyback and she (Leonor) was beside him. Then she told me that Joana was left there inside this old house where these two old cars were, after which they came to the house where we lived to fetch a blanket and went back there and they left the girl. This story about the disappearance of Joana is very poorly told from the beginning.
AP - What time did Leonor get home that night?
LS - I was always at home and did not see her leave. And at least in that house I went to bed always late. Sat watching movies until very late.
AP - But, after all, who would have thrown the body of Joana to the pigs?
LS - As she told me in the Judiciary, the body had been initially hidden behind the wall in the rubble that was next to the house where we lived in Figueira. And had stayed there on Sunday, the day the girl disappeared, only Monday and Tuesday is when they were taking the body. At night. If true, some would always smell. But apparently, no one felt there was any smell or noise heard at home on Sunday night. At least, that's what the landlady told me. And she, who lives on the first floor of the same building, says she hears everything, even when I went to the bathroom. That day, she heard nothing ...
AP - I could not understand  how also  nobody believes you, as Joana's stepfather, could they not learn something ...
LS - It's easy everybody thinks so. And you know why? Why are people not in our place. Each has their idea. And I'm not even against them, no. If I were in their place, and by chance thought the same. So do not get annoyed about it. Have not cared and not of importance.

Joana called her mother and swearing to shut up
AP - You hear many 'mouths' over the last two years?
LS - Many, many.
AP - What do you say after the disappearance of Joana?
LS - So much. So ...
AP - They called it murder?
LS - Everything! But with the help of my mother and my stepfather, put up as well. I have a family that helps me.
AP - Joao Cipriano, Joana's uncle, sent two letters from the Prison of Pinheiro da Cruz, near Sines, to a sister residing in Enxerim district of Silves, referring that the girl was sold by her own mother. And one of the letters, even states that "anyone who has the money, is the Leandro family." How do you react to this situation?
LS - I would also like to know ... But it's just talk.
AP - He knew his brother well?
LS - No. Joao went a few times to my house. But when I went, there was one day, two days. It is those people who do not talk much. Whenever he finished eating, he sat watching TV and said nothing.
AP - Over a week, before being arrested by the PJ, which he told  Leonor, he continued to live in the same house with you?
LS - gorged herself up crying. And she asked: "Where is my daughter? Where is my daughter? 'Cried alone.
AP - And the uncle of Joana?
LS - If I am not mistaken, was at home until Tuesday (Joana disappeared on Sunday).
AP-ever suspected your wife? Never surprised at all at her situation?
LS - Dona Leonor? Never! Relied heavily on her. I continue to trust, although sometimes so get a little wary.

“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Anna

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #54 on: March 01, 2015, 07:25:10 PM »
Part2
AP - Excuse me , what?
LS - Staying well in doubt. But trust her. She would never harm her daughter.
AP - How was the relationship of Leonor with Joana?
LS - Good. Joana could tell you everything that she answered nothing. Hoped I got home to tell me to take have a word with the girl, who was stuck in her to do schoolwork. And just get out of there, when she was all done.
AP - Never slapped your stepdaughter?
LS-Nothing! Never! That way? Neither the mother, the more so.
AP - And ever saw Eleanor hitting the Joana?
LS-I never saw. The one who yelled at Joana was I.
AP - Why?
LS - Joana was rebelling. And came to the point of calling her own mother a profanity.
AP - Such as?
LS - She called her a bitch.
AP - But why?
LS - I do not know. I Got angry and irritated after she called her mother a bitch. I do not know if those were words that came from her mouth to go out or something. Then the mother told me when I came home from work.
AP - As Leonor reacted to hearing the insult her own daughter?
LS - Only said she would tell me. But never hit her. Ruben (son, now four years old) came to have a spanking two or three times. For Joana, never. At least while she was with me.
AP - His son Ruben, who has a sister Lara (3 years) in Scull, support institution for children located in Portimao, have told a social worker that "men took Joana" ...
LS - Oh, yeah ... he also told me the same thing and I think my mother also. But it was a chancing to hear about it. Sometimes, someone said this or something and he had said the same.
AP-But what specifically did he say, your son?
LS - Men caught Joana, threw her in a car and were too rough. Was what he said when he was already in Catraia in Portimão.
Why do you say that was chancing any conversation he overheard.

Uncle of Joana was drunk or was instructed to confess death and dismemberment of his niece in the video appears in court

AP - You've seen the video shown during the trial of your wife and her brother in the Court of Portimão, where Joao Cipriano assumed to have killed Joana and dismembered the body, hiding it in a freezer. What do you think of this confession?
LS - It was he who was wearing the glasses ...
AP - From what we know, you accompanied him on the day he made that reconstitution and lived in the house where Joan ...
LS - followed. The judiciary was with me because I was at the to Scrap Yard and had the key of the house. We went to the Penina waiting for more police personnel. Then I went to the bar to a position of stools with two agents PJ drinking a beer. However, the car came with Joao and other Judiciary. They told me to go to this car, but not let us talk. Joao was there with a beer in hand and was still clinging to another. Although not familiar with it, I think he was drunk when he walked into the house to do what we saw in court. And I had not even entered. Only opened the door. Then they walked and were closed inside. I was always outside. In the video that went in court, we see that Joao was not normal at the time. Or was instructed to do that after finding  yourself intoxicated. Something he had.
AP - But what seemed to have assumed is that he cut the body in various parts of Joana?
LS - Knives that had at home were all cooking, but small. And with barely an inch of blade. Never had any big knives. What is it that Joao would have at home to do what he told Judicial? Only if it was a neighbour to borrow an axe or a saw. On the other hand, a freezer where he says he put the body is small. Just try to put two chickens in the freezer, you'll see that does not fit. Then, it has three drawers. To get a body inside, had to take the drawers, all out. Leonor never settles to cut a chicken let alone cut the body of Joana.
AP - And John would have the courage and ability to do so?
LS - Tuesday, has. As his mother says, for drug he is able to do everything. But also assures me that has done nothing. Joao loved his niece.
AP - He would be capable of killing or selling?
LS - By drug, would be able to sell. Sometimes there could be debt or something. That leonor, after a day or two, when she sent  Joana shopping, Joao followed behind her. And if anyone knows what happened to the girl, he will.
AP - ever demanded explanations from her brother?
LS - No.
AP - Why?
LS - Because he said he was (? At home) when he came out looking for me. But at the time, Leonor became suspicious with her brother.

Escape the young Austrian revives hope that Joan is alive
AP - spoke in drugs. What type of drug that Joao Cipriano consumed?
LS - Everything. But for the vein I think not. Now, hashish and dust ...
AP - Leonor And also consumed drugs?
LS - not even drank the more drugging. Only sometimes drinking a licorzinho.
AP - What did you think when you saw the news about the young Austrian woman Natascha Kampusch kidnapper who fled after being kidnapped in the basement of a house for more than eight years?
LS - I immediately thought the same would happen to Joana. Do not say ever, ever, ever. But even if it was five or six years. If it is the same situation in which she was one Austrian girl, will shift to free herself. Joana is very smart. Even for age (eight years) she had when she disappeared, was too smart. While there is life there is hope. And there's nothing to do in this life that do we not come to know. Then we would see ...
AP - What would you do then?
LS - I do not know ... That's what's harder to say. But no-one to pay for what I spent. I wish it to appear one day. We can then talk ...
AP - What do you think of the first action taken by the GNR and then the PJ to find  Joana?
LS - I think men Judiciary Portimão were not aggressive. Knew and tried to talk with us at least learn something.
 Meanwhile, the Faro on the first day they came for us, was soon to hit us when we got there. First it was beating then is that the questions were. I think the PJ of Portimão had continued to research, maybe had drawn something from somewhere.
AP - And the GNR?
LS - I had a deadline to make the service as we were told. Do not know who failed. Before, they said that only after 24 hours after the disappearance of Joana could they begin to search it as the law stipulates. I find this annoying because it is a child. If it were an adult with 18, 20, would be different. I could have gone to the girlfriend or boyfriend. Now with a child of eight still have to wait 24 hours to be officially reported missing and go looking, that's weird.

They should have closed the house to get one there


AP. - Also surprised that the police had not gone to the house where once lived the Joana and sealed space?
LS - Look, this is another! When we were there, instead of not letting me sleep there, had sealed the house. They should have closed the house to anyone in there. I would have taken only some clothes and ready. The house had to be sealed. I've heard many people say the same. Then say that the evidence was destroyed.
AP - How has your life been these past two years?
LS - Now is better. Life can not stop. But in the beginning, when Joana disappeared, and it was difficult not only for me.
AP - What was the most difficult moment?
LS - must have been the punishment we took in Judicial, where they called me everything and anything. And I was always beaten when taken there. But with the punches and tooke it. Outside, the worst was when we pass on the street and hear people insult us. Each one says what you want and we can not answer. Even avoided going to certain cafes. But today, as I enter in all. Have not heard anything. Now, everyone greets me and speaks well both in Figueira, as Mexilhoeira-Grande, where I live. But even when I go to Portimao or elsewhere, do not feel any problem.
AP - Walking with head high?
LS - Always walked.
AP - And how are your two sons?
LS - Well You are in Catraia in Portimão will be two years. But soon will come out. In principle, Ruben willPortimão.
AP - How is your relationship with them?
LS - It's good. I'll take them to Catraia every Sunday. My Ruben has asked me to return home permanently. Likes me to be where he is, but the family is different, of course.
AP - They have gone to see the mother of the Beja jail?
LS - My mother is on it to see if they will.
AP - And how long have you not visited Leonor?
LS - I do not know. Maybe a year now.
AP - Why?
LS - Because of whoever stole my papers. And no we can not get there. I have to find new roles. It's just that the reason and she knows.
AP - What do you write in the letters that  you send Leonor from the family?
LS -  she need money or anything she lacks. And ask when will we see hert. Says she feels really miss the children and  that God is great, she is innocent. And I still believe in her innocence. There are times when I'm so in doubt, but I am convinced that Leonor is innocent.
AP - In what extreme still doubt her?
LS - I do not know, sometimes when I'm there and stop to think if she is innocent or not. And this is why? Because she once wanted to be involved in this case, saying the Judiciary I helped her hide the body of Joan and Carlos Pinto had taken to the scrap yard where he worked. And sometimes I'm thinking, but why did she do this to us? On the other hand, I also think that things were put by them into her head.
AP - You came to be accused in the case ...
LS - It's true. I shuffled a bit, knowing that I have nothing to do with it. But the case was filed. I just had to go to court as a witness at trial, in which also only talked because I did speak. Was not required to do so by being familiar detainees (Leonor Cipriano and her brother John Manuel). But I was a bit flustered.

Hoped the acquittal of Leonor
AP - As seen trial?
LS - I was so nervous that I do not know how I saw it. There I knew what they were thinking of me.
AP-hoped the conviction or acquittal of Leonor?
LS - I was waiting for her to come out free.
AP - When he heard the sentence condemning her more than 20 years in prison, how did you feel?
LS - It seems that time has stopped. I dunno ... I wonder. Now, I feel better because with the resources provided by the attorney, the penalty already less. He may still get something else.
AP - What did she say … Leonor after being convicted?
LS - Only said to trust her because she did not kill her daughter.
AP - With all this, what you have learned in life?
LS - There are days when I can not leave the house. If the day that Joana had disappeared, If had not left home, nothing would have happened. But today, I am a calmer person. Only leave the house to work and go to the cafe. Or, to go to Portimao Catraia to see my children. Nothing more.
AP - They ask for their mother?
LS - The Ruben is asking a lot, but not yet told him. When they get older, I will tell them the truth about where their mother is. But Ruben has pulled me over once and told me that his mother is in prison. I told him no, that the mother was just taking a tour around and do not know where. When Leonor was arrested, I told my children that their mother was grounded because she behaves badly.
AP - They ask for Joana?
LS - Lara, no. She was very little, when her sister disappeared. As for Ruben, ask but not now.
AP - What was the relationship between Joana and brothers?
LS - It was good. Joana is who took care of them while the mother was doing other things.
If Joan was mistreated so my Ruben and Lara also were


AP - The MP says he met Joan panties with traces of sperm, concluding why she was sexually abused as well as being a victim of abuse as the rest consists of another process. How is that possible?
LS - I said that traces of sperm were mine. Then said it was Carlos Pinto, who lived in the same house. Came to say that it was my brother Bob. Later, they told me to be at ease, that had nothing to do with me. I did not know what had happened.
AP - But how could there be traces of semen on the clothes of the girl?
LS - also makes me confused. I do not know. I think this is very badly told by the Judiciary.
AP - admitted that there had been carelessness on the part of Leonor while cleaning the house and doing the laundry of the children?
LS - The house was always clean. The outfit was always in the basket for washing. When one day appeared there in house techniques of the Committee on the Protection of Minors due to a complaint that said the girl was abused, even these ladies have filed the case because they saw all right. Were 11.00 and my wife was making lunch for the kids. And never dreamed they would come to the house. Not only loved the kids were eating crackers. And asked that they did not often arguing that the wafers are bad. I wonder who was the person Figueira, who was telling the Committee for the Protection of Minors that Joan was mistreated. It's one that I think it was this lady who eventually went to England by the time of trial of Leonor and João suspect it as well all. My wife was never bad mother for the kids. There was much speculation in the middle of all this. If Joana were mistreated, then my and my Ruben Lara also were. Six months, my Ruben had some legs that were thicker than my arms.
AP Still think back to live with Leonor one day prove that, after all, she's innocent?
LS - Now do not already know. But I believe she is innocent.
With AP-40, that way you are trying to redo your life?
LS - eight months ago I have a new companion. Let's see how long.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Carana

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2015, 12:10:31 PM »
Thanks Anna.

They both seem to be automatic translations. Some points should be treated with caution as the meaning can get garbled.

In the one you found:

AP - The MP says he met Joan panties with traces of sperm, concluding why she was sexually abused as well as being a victim of abuse as the rest consists of another process. How is that possible?
LS - I said that traces of sperm were mine. Then said it was Carlos Pinto, who lived in the same house. Came to say that it was my brother Bob. Later, they told me to be at ease, that had nothing to do with me. I did not know what had happened.


In the one I found somewhere:


AP - The PJ says he found Jane's underwear with traces of sperm, thus concluding that she was sexually abused, and being a victim of abuse as indeed appears from another process. How is that possible?

L.S. - It said the traces of sperm were mine. Then said it was Carlos Pinto, who lived in the same house. They came to say it was my brother Bob. Later, they told me to be comfortable, that had nothing to do with me. I did not know what had happened.


According to my recollection of the original, the original was that he was told that the semen was his.... then he was told that it belonged to the other guy who lived in the house, then that it belonged to a third person.

It wasn't that he had told anyone that it was his, but that someone (the police or some other judicial entity) had told him that.

I've noticed before that pronouns can get mixed up and the passive gets changed to the active, which changes the meaning.








Offline Anna

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2015, 02:38:49 PM »
Thanks Anna.

They both seem to be automatic translations. Some points should be treated with caution as the meaning can get garbled.

In the one you found:

AP - The MP says he met Joan panties with traces of sperm, concluding why she was sexually abused as well as being a victim of abuse as the rest consists of another process. How is that possible?
LS - I said that traces of sperm were mine. Then said it was Carlos Pinto, who lived in the same house. Came to say that it was my brother Bob. Later, they told me to be at ease, that had nothing to do with me. I did not know what had happened.


In the one I found somewhere:


AP - The PJ says he found Jane's underwear with traces of sperm, thus concluding that she was sexually abused, and being a victim of abuse as indeed appears from another process. How is that possible?

L.S. - It said the traces of sperm were mine. Then said it was Carlos Pinto, who lived in the same house. They came to say it was my brother Bob. Later, they told me to be comfortable, that had nothing to do with me. I did not know what had happened.


According to my recollection of the original, the original was that he was told that the semen was his.... then he was told that it belonged to the other guy who lived in the house, then that it belonged to a third person.

It wasn't that he had told anyone that it was his, but that someone (the police or some other judicial entity) had told him that.

I've noticed before that pronouns can get mixed up and the passive gets changed to the active, which changes the meaning.

I think the one I posted was translated by an automatic, professional translator, but I have since changed to Google. "They", "them", "me" and "he", get mixed up and very often "No" means "in" or "on". Words like "and" "the" are often missed completely.
Anyway it gives us something to compare.
I am still looking for the original, but alas, no joy yet.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Carana

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2015, 03:10:44 PM »
Agreed. Automatic translation can sometimes be helpful to get the general gist, but there are pitfalls. I don't find it safe to rely on them, which is why I prefer to have the original posted as well.

I haven't had any luck in finding the original of this interview article, either. :(

Offline Carana

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #58 on: March 20, 2015, 08:20:42 AM »
I've found the original!

Part 1

Desconfio que uma senhora que vivia na Figueira está envolvida no desaparecimento da Joana
Caso Joana - 12.09.06

Leandro Silva, padrasto de Joana Cipriano, desaparecida no dia 12/09/2004 da aldeia da Figueira (Portimão) quando regressava a casa após ter ido às compras por indicação da mãe, continua a pensar que a criança, então com oito anos, foi raptada ou vendida. Morta pela própria progenitora e por um tio, como deu por provado o tribunal de Portimão, é que não

Quanto à primeira hipótese, Leandro assume pela primeira vez nesta entrevista ao «Algarve press» a sua suspeita sobre o possível envolvimento de uma amiga de Joana, que acabou por ir viver para Inglaterra. Já em relação a uma eventual venda, admite que “por droga” o tio de Joana “é capaz de tudo”. Queixa-se da actuação da Polícia Judiciária e considera que “esta história está muito mal contada desde o princípio”.

Do Estabelecimento Prisional de Odemira, onde cumpre uma pena recentemente reduzida pelo Supremo Tribunal de Justiça para 16 anos após ter sido declarada, juntamente com o irmão João Manuel, culpada de homicídio qualificado e ocultação do cadáver da filha (que ainda não apareceu) pelo tribunal de primeira instância constituído por jurados, Leonor Cipriano continua a clamar inocência.

Da cadeia do Pinheiro da Cruz, perto de Grândola, o tio de Joana diz que menina foi vendida pela própria mãe e que o dinheiro está na posse da família do padrasto, o que ambos negam. A PJ, por seu turno, mantém a convicção de que a menor foi devorada por porcos. Neste mar de dúvidas e contradições, a única certeza é que, dois anos depois, ninguém sabe o paradeiro de Joana ou do que ainda poderá restar dela.


Algarve Press – Hoje, passados precisamente dois anos desde o desaparecimento da sua enteada, Joana Cipriano, da aldeia da Figueira, perto de Portimão, onde vivia a família, o que acha que, de facto, aconteceu?

Leandro Silva – Continuo a achar que tenha sido raptada. Em último caso, se tal não sucedeu, só se foi vendida e para pessoas que a tratassem bem. Morta é que não. Não acredito nisso.

A.P. – Porque é que acredita na venda?

L.S. – Sei lá… Mas como a mãe do João (tio de Joana) já diz que derivado à droga e coisas assim ele é capaz disso…

A.P. – Suspeita, então, que João Cipriano tivesse vendido a sobrinha?

L.S. – Em relação a ele acredito em tudo e mais alguma coisa. Mas, à partida, continuo a pensar sobretudo que a Joana foi raptada.

A.P. – A sua família tem insistido que alguém da Figueira poderia estar envolvido nessa situação? Também acredita nisso?

L.S. – Acredito. Uma senhora acabou por se ir embora para Inglaterra ainda antes do julgamento, ou seja, um ano depois de a Joana ter desaparecido. Toda a minha família pensa que ela poderá estar envolvida neste caso.

A.P. – No Estabelecimento Prisional de Odemira, onde se encontra há quase dois anos, Leonor Cipriano, a mãe de Joana, alguma vez falou que a menina poderia ter sido levada por alguém com ligações à Figueira?

L.S. – A Leonor também pensa o mesmo que a gente. E falou nessa senhora sobretudo devido ao facto de ter pensado ir-se embora pouco depois do desaparecimento da Joana. Ela era muito amiga da Joana, dava-lhe vestuário e brinquedos. Tudo.

A.P. – Mas é só por isso que pensam que ela poderia estar por detrás do desaparecimento da criança?

L.S. – Não, não é só por isso. É pela forma como ela saiu do País. Quer dizer: larga o negócio que tinha na Figueira para ir trabalhar para os outros?

A.P. – Mas essa senhora a que faz alusão, foi testemunha (num depoimento gravado para memória futura) no julgamento do caso Joana no Tribunal de Portimão, onde chegou a dizer que a única coisa que não fez e que deveria ter feito era ter tirado a miúda à família…

L.S. – Olhe, essa é também mais uma… Pois… Dá assim que pensar… Essa senhora até levou uma vez a Joana ao Hospital do Barlavento, em Portimão, por causa de uma tosse. E ao mesmo tempo, acho que, pelo menos segundo vim a tomar conhecimento após o desaparecimento da Joana, que aproveitou para pedir exames médicos para saber se ela tinha sido violada. Não sei qual era a ideia dela. Mas nem sequer perguntou aos pais (no meu caso padrasto) se podia levar a miúda ao médico, nem nada. É que a mãe da Joana estava em casa.

A.P. – Chegou a pedir explicações a essa senhora pelo sucedido?

L.S. – Não, não. Na altura, não levámos a mal.

A.P.- Quando começou a desconfiar dela?

L.S. – Quando se foi embora da Figueira.

A.P. – Alguma vez falou à Polícia Judiciária sobre essa sua suposição?

L.S. – Não.

A.P. – Mas na altura em que a Joana desapareceu, essa senhora estava no Algarve e até foi das pessoas mais empenhadas em colaborar com a família, para tentar localizar a menina, e com a PJ nas investigações. Então, como poderia estar envolvida nesse caso?
L.S. – Não sei, não sei. Mas que desconfio dela, desconfio. É a única pessoa que, até hoje, penso que possa ter feito alguma coisa. Era ela quem andava sempre com a miúda. Onde a visse, ia logo conversar com ela. Até morrer, e enquanto não houver qualquer indicação em contrário, continuarei a pensar da mesma forma.


Nem uma galinha sabe matar quanto mais cortar a filha e dá-la aos porcos


A.P. – Mas a Judiciária continua a pensar que a Joana foi morta na casa onde vivia, na povoação da Figueira, e o corpo esquartejado e devorado por porcos numa suinicultura, donde acabaram por sair e ser abatidos. O que pensa desta versão?

L.S. – Acho que não. Essa dos porcos fui eu que disso a eles (da PJ) onde estavam quando me mandaram falar com a Leonor na Judiciária, em Faro. Se eu não lhes tivesse falado em porcos, ninguém lá ia. Como falei nos animais, disseram logo que a Joana tinha sido dada aos porcos. A Leonor nem para isso teria expediente. Nem uma galinha sabe matar quanto mais cortar a filha e dá-la aos corpos

Offline Carana

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #59 on: March 20, 2015, 08:21:33 AM »
Part 2

A.P. – Como surgiu essa informação sobre os suínos?

L.S. – Foi uma grande treta. A Leonor falou-me na zona, embora eu não saiba se devido ao facto de ter levado porrada na Judiciária ou por estar instruída para isso. Não sei. Sei é que ela me falou nesse caminho onde havia uma casa e carros velhos. Disse-lhe que conheço essa estrada porque passei lá uma vez. E sei que ali estão uns carros velhos e a única casa velha situada na zona. E havia uns porcos, o que ela me confirmou na altura. É claro que fui dizer à Judiciária aquilo que eles me pediram para lhe perguntar. Foi daí que nasceu essa questão dos porcos. E a PJ foi comigo ao local consoante as indicações da Leonor. Agora, não sei se realmente os porcos comem mesmo carne humana, ou não. O que sei é que a Judiciária foi lá investigar e parece que não encontrou nada. De certeza que se houvesse alguma coisa, teriam ficado ali cabelos ou outras coisas.
A.P. – Mas o que lhe disse concretamente a Leonor sobre os porcos?

L.S. – Disse-me que o João (o irmão) tinha levado a menina às cavalitas e que ela (a Leonor) ia ao lado dele. Depois, disse-me que deixaram lá a Joana dentro da tal casa velha onde estão os tais dois carros velhos, após o que vieram à casa onde vivíamos buscar um lençol e voltaram lá e taparam a menina. Esta história sobre o desaparecimento da Joana está muito mal contada desde o princípio.

A.P. – A que horas saiu a Leonor de casa nessa noite?

L.S. – Estive sempre em casa e não a vi sair. E pelo menos naquela casa eu deitava-me sempre tarde. Ficava a ver filmes até às tantas.

A.P. – Mas, afinal, quem teria lançado o corpo de Joana aos porcos?

L.S. – Como ela me disse na Judiciária, o corpo tinha ficado inicialmente escondido por detrás do muro no entulho que estava junto à casa onde vivíamos na Figueira. E tinha ficado lá no domingo, dia em que a menina desapareceu, segunda-feira e só na terça-feira é que o foram tirar. À noite. A ser verdade, sempre viria algum cheiro. Mas pelos vistos, ali ninguém sentiu cheiro algum, nem ouviu barulho em casa na noite de domingo. Pelo menos, foi o que a senhoria me disse. E ela, que mora no primeiro andar do mesmo prédio, diz que ouve tudo, até quando eu ia à casa de banho. Naquele dia, não ouviu nada…

A.P. – Como deve compreender, também ninguém acredita que o senhor, como padrasto de Joana, não saiba alguma coisa…

L.S. – É fácil toda a gente pensar assim. E sabe porquê? Porque as pessoas não estão na nossa pele. Cada um tem a sua ideia. E eu até não sou contra eles, não. Se estivesse no lugar deles, se calhando pensava igual. Por isso, não me chateio com isso. Já nem ligo importância.


Joana chamava palavrões à mãe e ela calava-se

A.P. – Ouviu muitas «bocas» ao longo destes dois anos?

L.S. - Muitas, muitas.

A.P. – O que lhe diziam após o desaparecimento de Joana?

L.S. – Tanta coisa. Tanta…

A.P. – Chamavam-lhe assassino?

L.S. - Tudo! Mas com a ajuda da minha mãe e do meu padrasto, aguentei bem. Tenho uma família que me ajuda.

A.P. – João Cipriano, tio de Joana, enviou duas cartas desde o Estabelecimento Prisional de Pinheiro da Cruz, perto de Grândola, a uma irmã residente na zona de Enxerim, em Silves, a referir que a menina foi vendida pela própria mãe. E numa das cartas, até indica que “quem tem o dinheiro é um da família do Leandro”. Como reage a esta situação?

L.S. – Gostava também de saber… Mas é só conversa.

A.P. – Conhecia bem o seu cunhado?

L.S. – Não. O João ia poucas vezes à minha casa. Mas quando ia, estava lá um dia, dois dias. É daquelas pessoas que não fala muito. Quando acabava de comer, ficava sentado a ver televisão e nada dizia.

A.P. – Ao longo de uma semana, antes de ser detida pela PJ, o que lhe dizia a Leonor, continuando a viver consigo na mesma casa?

L.S. – Fartava-se de chorar. E perguntava: «Onde está a minha filha? Onde está a minha filha?» Só chorava.

A.P. – E o tio da Joana?

L.S. – Se não estou em erro, esteve lá em casa até terça-feira (a Joana desapareceu no domingo).

A.P- Alguma vez desconfiou da sua mulher? Nunca estranhou toda a aquela situação?

L.S. – Da Leonor? Nunca! Confiava muito nela. E continuo a confiar, apesar de às vezes ficar assim um pouco coiso.

A.P. – Coiso, o quê?

L.S. – Ficar assim em dúvida. Mas confio nela. Ela nunca fazia mal à filha.

A.P. – Como era a relação de Leonor com a Joana?

L.S. – Boa. A Joana podia dizer-lhe tudo que ela nada respondia. Esperava que eu chegasse a casa para me contar para eu dar um «castigozinho» à menina, que era metê-la no quarto a fazer os deveres da escola. E só de lá saia, quando tinha tudo feito.

A.P. – Nunca deu uma bofetada à sua enteada?

L.S- Nada! Nunca! Que jeito? Nem na mãe, quanto mais nela.

A.P. – E alguma vez viu a Leonor bater na Joana?

L.S.- Nunca vi. Quem gritava com a Joana era eu.

A.P. – E porquê?

L.S. – A Joana era refilona. E chegava ao ponto de chamar palavrões à própria mãe.

A.P. – Como, por exemplo?

L.S. – Até puta lhe chamava.

A.P. – Mas porquê?

L.S. – Não sei. Zangava-se e depois irritada chamava puta à mãe. Não sei se aquilo eram palavras que lhe saíam da boca por sair, ou coisa assim. Depois, a mãe contava-me quando eu chegava do trabalho.

A.P. – Como reagia a Leonor ao ouvir a própria filha insultá-la?

L.S. – Só dizia que me ia avisar. Mas nunca lhe batia. Ao Ruben (o filho, hoje com quatro anos) chegou a dar umas palmadas duas ou três vezes. À Joana, nunca. Pelo menos, enquanto esteve comigo.

A.P. – O seu filho Ruben, que se encontra com a irmã Lara (3 anos) na Catraia, instituição de apoio a menores localizada em Portimão, terá dito a uma assistente social que “os homens levaram a Joana”…

L.S. – Ah, pois…ele também me disse a mesma coisa e acho que à minha mãe também. Mas isso calhando foi de ele ouvir falar. Às vezes, alguém que falou ou coisa assim e ele tinha dito o mesmo.