Author Topic: Jeremy Bamber - Jackie's theories on why Sheila did it  (Read 25821 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

jackiepreece

  • Guest
Jeremy Bamber - Jackie's theories on why Sheila did it
« on: February 26, 2013, 11:26:35 AM »
John
I understand what you are saying and this is another one of the areas that concern me in the case and obviously something that Shona mentions quite rightly all the time.
We know from postmortem reports that Sheila ate later on than other members of the family that night but have not got exact timings.  We do know there was a bucket in the kitchen with blooded clothing but this was never tested as far as I know and the defence use the argument that Sheila took part in a 'ritual cleaning' after the murders (something suicide victims often do before killing themselves) which could account for the 'clean' state of Sheila.
I would like to know more about this ritual cleaning?
Once again if the police investigation had been carried out properly they should have wondered why Sheila was so clean and forensically checked the bloodied clothing in the bucket to see if someone else's blood was on the clothing
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 09:38:27 AM by John »

jackiepreece

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Bamber - Jackie's theories on why Sheila did it
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2013, 11:39:30 AM »
Starryian
The difference between you and me is you believe Julie Mugford and I don't.

There is not one shred of evidence that proves she was telling the truth about what Jeremy 'told her'

I take it you have never spoken to her or written to her where as I have spoken to Jeremy at length about his case and come to my own conclusions.
There is NO evidence anywhere to prove Jeremy is a phycopath. Nothing not even from numerous experts

Jeremy's stupid blind arrogance while in the witness box could simply have been that as he wasn't responsible he certainly did not think he could ever be convicted

Just like when questioned by police at different times earlier in the investigation Jeremy did not even ask for a solicitor to be present when interviewed

Starryian perhaps you would like to post details of proof you have of Jeremy being a phycopath, not just the words of a women on her own admittance is a liar and a con person

I look forward to John having contact with Jeremy

Offline goatboy

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Jackie's theories on why Sheila did it
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2013, 07:32:43 PM »
Except for a psychologist who interviewed him before the trial and came to the conclusion that if ever there was a psycopath Bamber most certainly was one? If you take the view that he is a psycopath it certainly makes things a lot easier to understand. Psycopaths are adept at manipulating people, a psychologist who interviewed Ted Bundy said he began to feel manipulated by him. Again, if you take the view that Bamber is a master manipulator it is hardly surprising that Jackie believes in him wholeheartedly following conversations with him. Perhaps I would be readily convinced if I were to spend time in his company. Perhaps John would....

« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 07:34:54 PM by goatboy »

jackiepreece

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Bamber - Jackie's theories on why Sheila did it
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2013, 06:40:32 AM »


A fairly recent case that shows an example of 'cleansing' before suicide.



A Hanging at the Beach House: Female Suicide or Murder?

By Steve Albrecht, DBA on September 18, 2011 - 8:35pm


Coronado, California is as close to a perfect place to live as you will find in the world.  It features a beautiful beach, safe streets, great shops and restaurants, a well-known playhouse, golf courses, a sweeping blue harbor bridge that attaches it to San Diego, and the historic Hotel Del Coronado.  The city is bordered on both sides by the US Navy SEAL Team base and Naval Air Station North Island, where President Obama lands when he arrives on Air Force One to visit San Diego.  If you can afford to live there - and small houses start at over one million dollars - it's paradise.
The Coronado police department protects and serves visitors and tourists, longtime residents, retired military officers, and new and old moneyed people.  (John McCain's wife, Cindy, owns a beach view condo in Coronado).  With about 45 sworn members, it keeps the peace in a largely peaceful city. 



So on July 13, 2011, when a young woman was found dead on the grounds of a $12 million Coronado house (known as the Spreckels mansion, after a founding father of the city of San Diego) owned by a rich entrepreneur, they called in the San Diego Sheriff's Department homicide unit to help them investigate.
Rebecca Zahau, 32, was the girlfriend of 54-year-old Jonah Shacknai, a wealthy business owner whose company manufactures health and beauty supplements.



 In the early hours of July 13, Rebecca hung herself over a second-floor balcony.  Her naked body was found on the ground below, by her boyfriend's brother, who was living on the property in a guest house.
Her death was part of a strange sequence of events in the home.  Two days prior to Rebecca's death, Jonah Shacknai's six-year-old son, Max, was seriously injured in a fall from the second story staircase at the home.  Child abuse and homicide investigators believe Max tripped over something or fell as he was jumping down the staircase and sustained a life-threatening head injury.  They do not believe the boy was pushed or was assaulted in any way.

The assumption is that Rebecca blamed herself for Max's injuries to such a degree that she killed herself out of remorse or shame.


 Prior to her death, she had learned that he would not survive his accidental fall and indeed, he died two days after she killed herself.

According to the Sheriff's Department, just after one a.m., while Max was dying at the hospital,



Rebecca Zahau took a shower, removed her clothes, and used a paint brush and a tube of black paint to write a message on the door of a guest room where she kept her art supplies. 

The message said, "SHE SAVED HIM/CAN HE SAVE HER?"

She then tied a length of red nylon rope, which she may have retrieved from the garage where boating equipment was stored, to the foot of her bed frame.  She wrapped the rope over a long-sleeved shirt she had placed around her neck, bound her feet with the rope, tied her hands behind her back with a series of twisted loops, shuffled over to a small balcony off the window, and leaned or jumped over the railing.  She fell about nine feet and the force of the jump strangled her.

Not surprisingly, this case first fascinated residents of the cities of Coronado and San Diego, before it became national and international news.  How could this house become the scene of two suspicious deaths in such a short time?  Was the little boy killed or did he fall?

 Was Rebecca murdered or did she kill herself because she actually abused the boy or because she felt guilt about not supervising him properly?

In a two-hour news conference, the San Diego Sheriff's Department provided a detailed account of their investigation, evidence, and conclusions about her death:  the black paint from her door note was found on her hand and body; there was a small knife and a large knife in the bedroom - her fingerprints were found on the small one and her DNA was found on the large one; her DNA was found on the bed, the rope, the balcony door, and the bedroom door; her bare feet and toe impressions were found on the dusty balcony floor; changes in the dust on the balcony railing were consistent with her body going over it, as were the scrapes on her back and legs from hitting the large plants below.  No other footprints, fingerprints, or DNA that was not hers was found at the scene.  There were no signs of a fight, struggle, or sexual assault in the bedroom.

Rebecca's family has disputed the results of the investigation and has hired an attorney.  Well-known forensic pathologist, Dr. Michael Baden (no stranger to high-profile media cases involving unique deaths), looked at the case details from his office in New York, and told the San Diego Union-Tribune that he believed the Sheriff's investigation was valid and accurate.

Rebecca's family is outraged that the Sheriff's investigation could conclude that she killed herself. 


They disagree that it was from grief, shame, or depression.  She had told friends and family that she had felt depressed over the past year, but her parents didn't believe that was true. 

They said she had a lot to live for her and her personality was always cheerful.

And what about being naked? 

Her parents insist that their Burmese-Asian culture is far too modest for a woman to leave herself uncovered in death. 

And what about the fact that her hands and feet were bound? 
How could she have tied her own hands behind her back?  The Sheriff's Department actually produced a video re-enactment of how they believe Rebecca tied her own hands, which they showed at the press conference that covered details of their investigation.  Based on how the ropes were twisted into large loops around her wrists, it would not have taken an acrobat or the ghost of Harry Houdini to tie her own hands.  (You can view the video link at www.uniontrib.com/mansion)

Dr. Michael Baden told the local paper that of the 32,000 people who killed themselves last year, hanging was second only to gun shots as the method for their suicides.  Many clinicians involved in suicide research or who perform psychological autopsies on behalf of a medical examiner's office agree that women don't usually disfigure themselves in their suicides (i.e., gun shots to the face or slashed wrists), which makes hangings or intentional drug overdoses as their methods of choice.

And what about the cryptic note painted on the door, in Rebecca's own hand? 


Why was it not more explicit? 

Why did she write it in such a way that we can't interpret it fully as to what she was feeling, or whether she blamed herself for little Max's injuries and subsequent death, or why she chose to kill herself in such a provocative way?

Bill Gore (who was the Special Agent in Charge of the San Diego FBI field office prior to his election as San Diego County Sheriff in 2006) said that he reviewed a 2008 Georgetown University School of Medicine study that




said the reasons why people committed suicide in the nude was as a way to atone for their actions, as a cleansing ritual, or as a self-abasement for their guilt.

The suicidal dead take their reasons with them. 

Rebecca Zahau had her reasons and while they are far from satisfying for her family, they are what they are.  There is nothing at this point that suggests the Sheriff's Department botched the investigation.  Their work was thorough and exact, not just because it initially looked like a murder, but also because of the high-profile nature of the location, the homeowner, and the previous incident involving the little boy.

There is nothing to connect Rebecca's brother or her boyfriend to her death, or any other known or unknown person.  There is no forensically-skilled maniac roaming the streets of Coronado, using suicide scenarios to cover up his homicides.  She is dead at her own hand and that is a tragedy.       

drsteve@drstevealbrecht.com

jackiepreece

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Bamber - Jackie's theories on why Sheila did it
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2013, 06:44:20 AM »
Another discussion piece on the Internet in regard to ritual cleaning and suicide


Actually, it's much more common for women to commit suicide in the nude. Some forensic psychologists believe it has to do with the intimacy of death, others suggest it is related to a desire not to ruin a perfectly good outfit. I suspect it has more to do with the choice of manner of death. Women tend toward drug overdose or poison. Either may cause drowsiness first. Drowsiness leads to preparation for bed, thus undressing.

The next most common means of suicide for women is wrist slashing. This is usually done in the comfort of a warm bath. It's the same for men, by the way. The bath tub is the spot of choice for wrist slashing.

On the relatively rare occasions when women shoot themselves, they almost never shoot through clothing. They tend to shoot for the heart but open their blouse first.

Finally, the vast majority of women who commit suicide do so while having their periods.
I am certified to do what is referred to as the Medicolegal Investigation of Death through a medical school, I will say in any cases that I have encountered very rarely do we find men or women in the nude. If we do it is significant of a "ritualistic type suicide". In that it is referred to a cleansing ritual, it also present in homicides. One cleanses the body in order to bring a feeling of completion spiritually, once they have obtained the sought after emotion, they pull the trigger, and it makes it easier on the family to look at there deceased loved one in a clean wholesome state. (DAMN,) tis is hard to explain to you.

Offline goatboy

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Jackie's theories on why Sheila did it
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2013, 08:16:40 AM »
Is it just me or does anyone else find the "ritual cleansing" theory to be a desperate attempt at clutching at straws to find something, anything that may prove Jeremy's innocence? Even when this is at total odds with all the evidence? What this doesn't explain is that Sheila's nails were in perfect condition too which they would not have been had she loaded and fired the rifle so many times. Also surely the shower would have been covered in blood too if this were the case. Was it? There's no mention of this. Did she clean the shower as well?

It's widely thought (on both sides of the argument) that the reason Nevill was in the kitchen was because he was trying to get to the phone. Someone made a pretty good job of making sure that he didn't get there. I don't think Sheila would have been that desperate to stop him getting to the phone. After all why fear the police if she was only going to kill herself anyway? Someone didn't want Nevill getting to the phone and telling exactly what was happening. Who would have more of an interest in ensuring Nevill didn't phone 999? Jeremy or Sheila?

Offline Angelo222

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Jackie's theories on why Sheila did it
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2013, 09:05:28 AM »
Grasping at straws Jackie?

So now you are asking us to believe that Sheila went round shooting everyone in the nude before washing and getting into her nightdress before shooting herself?  Interesting theory Jackie and it would have been plausible had there been any signs of this found in the bathroom such as blood spots or bloodied towels etc.

Without any evidence of this Jackie I'm afraid we must consign this piece of speculation to the bin as well.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 09:20:01 AM by David »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

jackiepreece

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Bamber - Jackie's theories on why Sheila did it
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2013, 09:12:00 AM »
Goatboy just debating the points/mysteries in the Bamber case?

Just wondered if the police who carried out a thorough search of WHF but 'missed' the silencer even checked/looked at the shower
By the way I don't believe Sheila's hands were in a perfect state and I believe there is more to come out about this



David just debating the case and as you know the police carried out a very bad investigation/search of WHF maybe there are photos not released that show more blood at WHF
Once again we need more PII material released

Offline puglove

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Jackie's theories on why Sheila did it
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2013, 09:56:00 AM »
Grasping at straws Jackie?

So now you are asking us to believe that Sheila went round shooting everyone in the nude before washing and getting into her nightdress before shooting herself?  Interesting theory Jackie and it would have been plausible had there been any signs of this found in the bathroom such as blood spots or bloodied towels etc.

Without any evidence of this Jackie I'm afraid we must consign this piece of speculation to the bin as well.

To be fair, it was old Colly Cropper who invented the ritual cleansing thing.

(I wonder if she's STILL trying to peer through my bedroom window on googlemap?  Ugh.)
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline John

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Jackie's theories on why Sheila did it
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2013, 10:36:33 AM »
Goatboy just debating the points/mysteries in the Bamber case?

Just wondered if the police who carried out a thorough search of WHF but 'missed' the silencer even checked/looked at the shower
By the way I don't believe Sheila's hands were in a perfect state and I believe there is more to come out about this



David just debating the case and as you know the police carried out a very bad investigation/search of WHF maybe there are photos not released that show more blood at WHF
Once again we need more PII material released

I don't believe the police 'missed' the silencer Jack.   They had no reason to go looking for other weapons or gun accessories after finding what appeared to be four murders and a suicide.

Could Jeremy have taken the silencer with him on the morning of the murders but placed it back in the gun cabinet secretly afterwards?  That would explain why the police didn't recover it after the murders while David Boutflour was able to find it a few days later?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

jackiepreece

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Bamber - Jackie's theories on why Sheila did it
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2013, 10:43:52 AM »
Shona I never realised it was the stab me in the back merchant cropper who came up with the ritual cleaning theory? I thought the Official Campaign team have mentioned it also.
To be honest with the bucket full up with bloodied clothes its the only explanation that seems feasible for the totally keystone cops police investigation who didn't take into account Sheila's body was 'clean'.
Something does not ring true about this because I just don't believe the police could have been that bad to overlook important details about the crime scene.

John you would have thought he would have cleaned the silencer if he had enough time wouldn't you

Offline John

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Jackie's theories on why Sheila did it
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2013, 10:59:03 AM »
Shona I never realised it was the stab me in the back merchant cropper who came up with the ritual cleaning theory? I thought the Official Campaign team have mentioned it also.
To be honest with the bucket full up with bloodied clothes its the only explanation that seems feasible for the totally keystone cops police investigation who didn't take into account Sheila's body was 'clean'.
Something does not ring true about this because I just don't believe the police could have been that bad to overlook important details about the crime scene.

John you would have thought he would have cleaned the silencer if he had enough time wouldn't you

Jack, do you really believe that if you had just killed your parents and children that you would bother to wash clothes?  In any event, she didn't have enough time to wash herself and do everything else since PC Bews and his colleagues were on the scene very quickly after Jeremy reported a call from his father.  Also note that Sheila's hair was dry in the photos.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline puglove

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Jackie's theories on why Sheila did it
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2013, 11:52:32 AM »
Shona I never realised it was the stab me in the back merchant cropper who came up with the ritual cleaning theory? I thought the Official Campaign team have mentioned it also.
To be honest with the bucket full up with bloodied clothes its the only explanation that seems feasible for the totally keystone cops police investigation who didn't take into account Sheila's body was 'clean'.
Something does not ring true about this because I just don't believe the police could have been that bad to overlook important details about the crime scene.

John you would have thought he would have cleaned the silencer if he had enough time wouldn't you

You're probably right, Jac, I never read the campaign stuff. But I do remember old Colly going on and on about it, because I wondered how Sheila had enough time to kill everyone, shower, dry herself, dry her hair, put her jewellery back on etc., etc. Then make sure she had 2 bullets, in case the first one didn't work.
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline John

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Jackie's theories on why Sheila did it
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2013, 01:37:42 PM »
Is it just me or does anyone else find the "ritual cleansing" theory to be a desperate attempt at clutching at straws to find something, anything that may prove Jeremy's innocence? Even when this is at total odds with all the evidence?

I've seen a lot of this clutching at straws business around these forums.

Welcome to the forum iimaginary.   Would you like to introduce yourself in the new members section.  TY
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

jackiepreece

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Bamber - Jackie's theories on why Sheila did it
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2013, 04:00:55 PM »
John with regard to Sheila we are now broaching the subject of was Sheila still alive when the police were outside and could she have still walked about with the first shot???
I don't think either of us know that for definate.
I would really like any sound recordings from the time of entry to WHF released to the defence/prosecution even if only under strict conditions plus file one when the police believed it was murder/suicide.
There must be so much more information that should be shared in that file.
Being open and transparent is the only way MOJ cases can be fairly assessed

John keep writing to Jeremy if he turns you down because in the end 'he' might decide he wants to speak to you