Sheila's fingerprints were not on any bullets

[starryian]

It was all part of his plan to try and incriminate her. It is quite apparent that he was planning that dreadful deed for some time and he needed to wait for just the right moment.  With Sheila and the boys staying over at the farm the stage was set for him to spring his trap.  What a callous thug.

Don't forget that JB acted out of character by asking Sheila when she was next taking the boys to the farm. He had never shown the slightest interest before.

That is really interesting Shona. That is the first time I have heard that Bamber asked Sheila when she would be bringing the boys to White House Farm. It points very clearly to the awful truth about how Bamber's calculating, scheming and callous mind really works.

[Tim Invictus]

It was all part of his plan to try and incriminate her. It is quite apparent that he was planning that dreadful deed for some time and he needed to wait for just the right moment.  With Sheila and the boys staying over at the farm the stage was set for him to spring his trap.  What a callous thug.

Don't forget that JB acted out of character by asking Sheila when she was next taking the boys to the farm. He had never shown the slightest interest before.

That is really interesting Shona. That is the first time I have heard that Bamber asked Sheila when she would be bringing the boys to White House Farm. It points very clearly to the awful truth about how Bamber's calculating, scheming and callous mind really works.

I agree Ian. Besides what Bamber had told Julie over the previous year there are many other examples of Bamber's preparation for the murders. In the eyes of the law 'malice aforethought' makes any crime far worse than a spur of the moment action with no preparation. In my opinion it's this callousness that truly make Bamber's murders 'evil almost beyond belief'.

There can be no redemption for Bamber! 

[starryian]

It was all part of his plan to try and incriminate her. It is quite apparent that he was planning that dreadful deed for some time and he needed to wait for just the right moment.  With Sheila and the boys staying over at the farm the stage was set for him to spring his trap.  What a callous thug.

Don't forget that JB acted out of character by asking Sheila when she was next taking the boys to the farm. He had never shown the slightest interest before.

That is really interesting Shona. That is the first time I have heard that Bamber asked Sheila when she would be bringing the boys to White House Farm. It points very clearly to the awful truth about how Bamber's calculating, scheming and callous mind really works.

I agree Ian. Besides what Bamber had told Julie over the previous year there are many other examples of Bamber's preparation for the murders. In the eyes of the law 'malice aforethought' makes any crime far worse than a spur of the moment action with no preparation. In my opinion it's this callousness that truly make Bamber's murders 'evil almost beyond belief'.

There can be no redemption for Bamber!

Absolutely Tim. the premeditation, plotting and planning involved here is virtually Machevellian.
This also points to the very real danger that Bamber must never have any contact with innocent members of the public. He represents a very clear and present danger.

[Barry Clark]

Every bullet is coated in an oil designed to act as both a lubricant and an anti-corrosion agent.  The perfect base for laying down fingerprints.

The complete absence of any identifiable prints on the bullets is further evidence that Sheila Caffell did not load that rifle.

The lack of fingerprints on spent bullets proves no such thing. It wasn't until 2008 that techniques to extract fingerprint evidence from spent bullets were developed.

[Andrea]

Introduce yourself Baz, thanks

[starryian]

Every bullet is coated in an oil designed to act as both a lubricant and an anti-corrosion agent.  The perfect base for laying down fingerprints.

The complete absence of any identifiable prints on the bullets is further evidence that Sheila Caffell did not load that rifle.

The lack of fingerprints on spent bullets proves no such thing. It wasn't until 2008 that techniques to extract fingerprint evidence from spent bullets were developed.

This is true Barry, but in 1985 they still had methods for extracting fingerprints that were every bit as advanced as they are in 2012, (the imaging and recording has advanced) They used 'superglue' inside an airtight chamber. The glue would be heated and fumes released. The fumes come to rest on the any latent fingerprint and would highlight it clearly. This method was extremely effective particularly if you have 24 to choose from!
They did not find a single fingerprint from Sheila Caffell and only ONE on the rifle that she was meant to kill five people with. Considering Jeremy Bamber's own admission that he used the rifle the day before it is safe to assume that the rifle had almost certainly been wiped clean. Which beggars the question; why would a woman in the full grip of a psychotic breakdown,wipe a rifle clean?

[Barry Clark]

Hi Starryian.
Techniques for extracting fingerprints have advanced since 1985. The superglue method is fine when there is a fingerprint to find, but when heated the sweat deposit that is a fingerprint will vaporize. Research papers suggest it was only in 2006 that scientists identified it would be possible to retrieve prints from spent bullets, and in 2008 that a technique was developed by Northampton police & the University of Leicester.

[starryian]

Hi Starryian.
Techniques for extracting fingerprints have advanced since 1985. The superglue method is fine when there is a fingerprint to find, but when heated the sweat deposit that is a fingerprint will vaporize. Research papers suggest it was only in 2006 that scientists identified it would be possible to retrieve prints from spent bullets, and in 2008 that a technique was developed by Northampton police & the University of Leicester.

OK yup. But dont you find it odd that nothing was discovered?

[Barry Clark]

I find many elements of the case incredible, but I dont find the lack of fingerprints on bullets to be incredible for reasons already stated.

[starryian]

I find many elements of the case incredible, but I dont find the lack of fingerprints on bullets to be incredible for reasons already stated.

What do you find incredible?

[puglove]

What is the blue forum doing? Bridget is clearly correct about the "gun moving" nonsense. Even Rochy can't see it? NOTHING has moved, just the camera angle and shadowing. Good grief.

[Barry Clark]

OK, for starters I find it incredible that trainer firearms officers, those who we would expect to be the coolest of the cool mistook the body of a 6 foot 4 inch tall man for a female, and incredible that Essex police have withheld substantial amounts of documents (or even destroyed documents so soon after the crime). I find it incredible that there is debate about whether Sheila Cafell's hand was moved when it is obvious her entire body is in different positions between photographs - hands my slip, but dead bodies don't move on their own.

Photo on the left, 2 blood spots are seen by Sheila's right knee. Photo on the right shows 2 blood spots are now in line with her thigh and there is more blood splatter by her right knee. The body, not the hand, has been moved between photos.

[puglove]

OK, for starters I find it incredible that trainer firearms officers, those who we would expect to be the coolest of the cool mistook the body of a 6 foot 4 inch tall man for a female, and incredible that Essex police have withheld substantial amounts of documents (or even destroyed documents so soon after the crime). I find it incredible that there is debate about whether Sheila Cafell's hand was moved when it is obvious her entire body is in different positions between photographs - hands my slip, but dead bodies don't move on their own.

Photo on the left, 2 blood spots are seen by Sheila's right knee. Photo on the right shows 2 blood spots are now in line with her thigh and there is more blood splatter by her right knee. The body, not the hand, has been moved between photos.

Hallo, Barry. Do you find it incredible that Sheila could move from the kitchen to the bedroom with a shattered throat, and not bleed down the front of her nightdress? Or cough out some blood? Or swallow some blood?

[Barry Clark]

hello Shona ... is that what happened? I have seen the photos that show blood in Sheila's mouth and blood on the right shoulder of her nightdress, but I dont know that she moved between rooms with a shattered throat. I have read that one bullet only entered tissue therefore it would still be possible to live, but moving between rooms, that sounds like guess work, do tell me more.

[puglove]

hello Shona ... is that what happened? I have seen the photos that show blood in Sheila's mouth and blood on the right shoulder of her nightdress, but I dont know that she moved between rooms with a shattered throat. I have read that one bullet only entered tissue therefore it would still be possible to live, but moving between rooms, that sounds like guess work, do tell me more.

Hallo again, Barry!! Can I just say (can't say it on the blue forum because I'm banned) that Mike saying that Jeremy is/was no liar is bollocks, because he broke into the caravan park, kept the dosh and LIED. The general consensus on the blue forum is that Sheila shot herself in the throat in the kitchen, then when no one was looking, ran upstairs and threw herself on the bed. This is a biological impossibility. Her throat would have been full of blood, she would have gagged and coughed, and the blood would have poured downwards, on her nightdress and legs. And would have covered her face.