Sheila's fingerprints were not on any bullets

[starryian]

OK, for starters I find it incredible that trainer firearms officers, those who we would expect to be the coolest of the cool mistook the body of a 6 foot 4 inch tall man for a female, and incredible that Essex police have withheld substantial amounts of documents (or even destroyed documents so soon after the crime). I find it incredible that there is debate about whether Sheila Cafell's hand was moved when it is obvious her entire body is in different positions between photographs - hands my slip, but dead bodies don't move on their own.

Photo on the left, 2 blood spots are seen by Sheila's right knee. Photo on the right shows 2 blood spots are now in line with her thigh and there is more blood splatter by her right knee. The body, not the hand, has been moved between photos.

Groan..........I am a little tired of reeling this one out Barry so forgive me for sounding a little long in the tooth on this point. Nevill was found in a sitting position in the kitchen head down in a coal scuttle. All that could be seen of him was the top of his head. His grey hair hanging down and matted with blood. A police officer peering through the dark kitchen window thought it was the body of a woman and reported it over his radio mike (ONE DEAD WOMAN IN THE KITCHEN). The firearms team then entered the house and discovered it was actually a man and reported it as such (ONE DEAD MAN IN THE KITCHEN); the dispacher put 2 and 2 togther and thought it was a man AND a woman. Just a simple piece of miscommunication and nothing more. Something that Bamber supporters have leapt on endlessly until some bright spark discovered the truth of the matter.
However, this highlights perfectly just how much a point can be misconstrued or twisted to suit a claim of innocence. It has now become part of the fabric of the case and taken as fact by newcomers to it.
The supporters will throw many of these type of errors and try to prove Bamber's innocence with them.

[puglove]

hello Shona ... is that what happened? I have seen the photos that show blood in Sheila's mouth and blood on the right shoulder of her nightdress, but I dont know that she moved between rooms with a shattered throat. I have read that one bullet only entered tissue therefore it would still be possible to live, but moving between rooms, that sounds like guess work, do tell me more.

Hallo again, Barry!! Can I just say (can't say it on the blue forum because I'm banned) that Mike saying that Jeremy is/was no liar is bollocks, because he broke into the caravan park, kept the dosh and LIED. The general consensus on the blue forum is that Sheila shot herself in the throat in the kitchen, then when no one was looking, ran upstairs and threw herself on the bed. This is a biological impossibility. Her throat would have been full of blood, she would have gagged and coughed, and the blood would have poured downwards, on her nightdress and legs. And would have covered her face.

And no amount of Grahame's ill-informed anger will negate that. Hallo by the way, Grahame!! I know you read this stuff.How long will you last this time? 2 days? Ever thought about having something original to say? Or are you content with being Mike's polly parrot?

[Barry Clark]

ok, i am new here and no idea what the blue forum is or who Mile is. As for biological impossibilities, it is possible to be shot in the throat  (either by yourself or another person) and survive...whether one would be up for running and jumping I cannot say, but many people have survived gunshot wounds to their throats. The internet is full of such stories.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/unarmed-man-is-shot-in-throat-as-police-swoop-on-raid-gang-6546850.html
http://www.macon.com/2010/06/27/1177063/teen-girl-shot-in-throat-in-south.html
and on and on and on

[starryian]

OK, for starters I find it incredible that trainer firearms officers, those who we would expect to be the coolest of the cool mistook the body of a 6 foot 4 inch tall man for a female, and incredible that Essex police have withheld substantial amounts of documents (or even destroyed documents so soon after the crime). I find it incredible that there is debate about whether Sheila Cafell's hand was moved when it is obvious her entire body is in different positions between photographs - hands my slip, but dead bodies don't move on their own.

Photo on the left, 2 blood spots are seen by Sheila's right knee. Photo on the right shows 2 blood spots are now in line with her thigh and there is more blood splatter by her right knee. The body, not the hand, has been moved between photos.

So what Barry ? There were many reasons to remove the gun from Sheila. The TFT had to make the gun safe for a start? Are you under the impression that the doctor didnt examine her? To do so means you invariably have to move her body to check for vital signs. Does this make Bamber any less innocent..............erm no.
I suspect from your post you certainly know more about the case than you are letting on. If you support Bamber.....no problem we gladly accept people from both sies of the divide. Just be honest that's all we ask.

[Andrea]

They say on the blue forum that sheila, after shooting herself in the throat, ran upstairs and read the bible before shooting herself again, does that sound plausible to you? No, sorry i think theyre saying that the police delivered the 2nd shot.

[starryian]

ok, i am new here and no idea what the blue forum is or who Mile is. As for biological impossibilities, it is possible to be shot in the throat  (either by yourself or another person) and survive...whether one would be up for running and jumping I cannot say, but many people have survived gunshot wounds to their throats. The internet is full of such stories.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/unarmed-man-is-shot-in-throat-as-police-swoop-on-raid-gang-6546850.html
http://www.macon.com/2010/06/27/1177063/teen-girl-shot-in-throat-in-south.html
and on and on and on

Not this story barry. She was shot in the side of the neck. The bullet shattered the fourth vertebrae in her spinal column close to her neck and took out part of her carotid artery. You dont get up from a shot like that no matter what.

[puglove]

ok, i am new here and no idea what the blue forum is or who Mile is. As for biological impossibilities, it is possible to be shot in the throat  (either by yourself or another person) and survive...whether one would be up for running and jumping I cannot say, but many people have survived gunshot wounds to their throats. The internet is full of such stories.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/unarmed-man-is-shot-in-throat-as-police-swoop-on-raid-gang-6546850.html
http://www.macon.com/2010/06/27/1177063/teen-girl-shot-in-throat-in-south.html
and on and on and on

Not this story barry. She was shot in the side of the neck. The bullet shattered the fourth vertebrae in her spinal column close to her neck and took out part of her carotid artery. You dont get up from a shot like that no matter what.

Actually, if you look at that first shot, it doesn't work. If Sheila intended that shot to be effective, she wouldn't have done it to the side of her neck. She would have put the gun under her chin, or in her mouth. Why shoot herself to the side of her throat?

[Andrea]

Thats me done....night all xx

[starryian]

They say on the blue forum that sheila, after shooting herself in the throat, ran upstairs and read the bible before shooting herself again, does that sound plausible to you? No, sorry i think theyre saying that the police delivered the 2nd shot.

Quite, Andrea,
the theory is totally ludicrous and without any foundation. I also believe that it speaks volume about their desperation to try to distance the real culprit from that rifle. They have tried all manner of stupid explanations, none of which bares any scrutiny. A little bit like the ''conversation with someone inside the house' crap. Seen on a document and totally twisted to suit their purpose. However, these comical interpretations are now well known. Every single reason they give for Bamber's innocence is nothing more than twisted interpetations of the evidence to suit their own purpose. It is interesting to watch when they twist a new piece and become all smug and self-satified about it only to told that the factual and logical interpretation proves otherwise. >@@(*&)

[starryian]

ok, i am new here and no idea what the blue forum is or who Mile is. As for biological impossibilities, it is possible to be shot in the throat  (either by yourself or another person) and survive...whether one would be up for running and jumping I cannot say, but many people have survived gunshot wounds to their throats. The internet is full of such stories.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/unarmed-man-is-shot-in-throat-as-police-swoop-on-raid-gang-6546850.html
http://www.macon.com/2010/06/27/1177063/teen-girl-shot-in-throat-in-south.html
and on and on and on

Not this story barry. She was shot in the side of the neck. The bullet shattered the fourth vertebrae in her spinal column close to her neck and took out part of her carotid artery. You dont get up from a shot like that no matter what.

Actually, if you look at that first shot, it doesn't work. If Sheila intended that shot to be effective, she wouldn't have done it to the side of her neck. She would have put the gun under her chin, or in her mouth. Why shoot herself to the side of her throat?

That is a really good point Shona,
I never considered that. Why would someone, if they were going to kill themselves, shoot themselves in a place that misses all their vital organs??? The question is rhetorical and we know why, dont we Shona 

Fantastic point Shona 

[Barry Clark]

Starryian ...not sure why you are groaning about rolling out old news, you invited the conversation. You seem to be jumping to all sorts of conclusion about what I am thinking - no need to concern yourself with the 1 or2 bodies in the kitchen debate, you asked me what I find incredible, and whether it was dark kitchen (was it, 7.30 on an August morning, other reports talk of the kitchen light being on?) or not, to mistake a large body of a farmer for a woman is incredible to me (I say this mainly as I see con-Bamber posters using the height issue as a reason why Sheila could not have overpowered Nevill. I find it incredible that on one hand people believe there is no way a woman of Sheila's stature could overpower Nevil, the same people don't bat an eyelid at the police thinking a large body is that of a woman, not just a body).

As for the "not that story" - I really have no idea what Shona is refering to specifically, I am just answering what I read.

You also seem to be missing the point about the photo in the link. The body has moved. The body does not have to be moved to establish life or death when face up and accessible.

I am also aware of the conditions of the forum, no need to tell me that you accept both sides of the divide, just because I don't believe everthing the prosecution claims doesn't make me pro-defence, I am purely pro-fair trial for all suspects.

[puglove]

ok, i am new here and no idea what the blue forum is or who Mile is. As for biological impossibilities, it is possible to be shot in the throat  (either by yourself or another person) and survive...whether one would be up for running and jumping I cannot say, but many people have survived gunshot wounds to their throats. The internet is full of such stories.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/unarmed-man-is-shot-in-throat-as-police-swoop-on-raid-gang-6546850.html
http://www.macon.com/2010/06/27/1177063/teen-girl-shot-in-throat-in-south.html
and on and on and on

Not this story barry. She was shot in the side of the neck. The bullet shattered the fourth vertebrae in her spinal column close to her neck and took out part of her carotid artery. You dont get up from a shot like that no matter what.

Actually, if you look at that first shot, it doesn't work. If Sheila intended that shot to be effective, she wouldn't have done it to the side of her neck. She would have put the gun under her chin, or in her mouth. Why shoot herself to the side of her throat?

That is a really good point Shona,
I never considered that. Why would someone, if they were going to kill themselves, shoot themselves in a place that misses all their vital organs??? The question is rhetorical and we know why, dont we Shona 

Fantastic point Shona 

If Sheila wanted to kill herself and the boys, she wouldn't have risked it at WHF. She'd have done it in the flat. She knew Ralph would have tried to stop her. Who wanted the family dead....Sheila who loved those boys, or JB, who thought those boys were a liability?

[Barry Clark]

ok, i am new here and no idea what the blue forum is or who Mile is. As for biological impossibilities, it is possible to be shot in the throat  (either by yourself or another person) and survive...whether one would be up for running and jumping I cannot say, but many people have survived gunshot wounds to their throats. The internet is full of such stories.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/unarmed-man-is-shot-in-throat-as-police-swoop-on-raid-gang-6546850.html
http://www.macon.com/2010/06/27/1177063/teen-girl-shot-in-throat-in-south.html
and on and on and on

Not this story barry. She was shot in the side of the neck. The bullet shattered the fourth vertebrae in her spinal column close to her neck and took out part of her carotid artery. You dont get up from a shot like that no matter what.

Actually, if you look at that first shot, it doesn't work. If Sheila intended that shot to be effective, she wouldn't have done it to the side of her neck. She would have put the gun under her chin, or in her mouth. Why shoot herself to the side of her throat?

Shona - aren't you countering your own argument here? You suggested earlier that the Bamber supporters believe Sheila could shoot herself in the kitchen and then run upstairs and spring into bed, something you seem to find incredible/unbelievable. Here you now seem to be suggesting it is perfectly possible to be ineffective at shooting yourself, thus surely rendering yourself capable of running upstairs and sprining into bed.

[puglove]

Apparently, JB walks and talks with his "dad" every day. After 27 years. The "dad" that he stole from. The dad that he hated. "I f..king hate my parents."

It's not looking very good, is it?

[puglove]

ok, i am new here and no idea what the blue forum is or who Mile is. As for biological impossibilities, it is possible to be shot in the throat  (either by yourself or another person) and survive...whether one would be up for running and jumping I cannot say, but many people have survived gunshot wounds to their throats. The internet is full of such stories.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/unarmed-man-is-shot-in-throat-as-police-swoop-on-raid-gang-6546850.html
http://www.macon.com/2010/06/27/1177063/teen-girl-shot-in-throat-in-south.html
and on and on and on

Not this story barry. She was shot in the side of the neck. The bullet shattered the fourth vertebrae in her spinal column close to her neck and took out part of her carotid artery. You dont get up from a shot like that no matter what.

Actually, if you look at that first shot, it doesn't work. If Sheila intended that shot to be effective, she wouldn't have done it to the side of her neck. She would have put the gun under her chin, or in her mouth. Why shoot herself to the side of her throat?

Shona - aren't you countering your own argument here? You suggested earlier that the Bamber supporters believe Sheila could shoot herself in the kitchen and then run upstairs and spring into bed, something you seem to find incredible/unbelievable. Here you now seem to be suggesting it is perfectly possible to be ineffective at shooting yourself, thus surely rendering yourself capable of running upstairs and sprining into bed.

Not really. The first wound was a massive insult, if you like. It didn't kill Sheila, but it did massive damage. She never moved after that. But she was still alive (just).