The timings of Jeremy's calls to Julie and to the police.

[Holly Goodhead]

Wouldn't call Chelmsford local. But then again Jeremy apparently called Witham, who mysteriously didn't answer.

Chelmsford then called Witham, and guess what ?

They were on their tea-break or having a pee 

[Holly Goodhead]

Ominous news re. accidents, death often comes in the middle of the night, and any sensible person's reaction would be to get over there as quick as possible without dawdling.  He knew there was a call box near to Pages Lane should one be required when he arrived, or he could even have wakened the Foakes up to use theirs if necessary.

But it wasn't an accident or death was it; it was a person with a history of serious mental illness supposedly in possession of a loaded firearm. 

[John]

JB initially said that he received a call from his father at 03:10 and that he immediately called the police (after looking up the number which took 10 mins). Since the (so called) finding of Jeremy's phone log, the claims are now that he called police at 03:36 (to coincide with the time on the log). Why and how could there be such a discrepancy?  Memory doesn't get better with time so early recollections about timings surely carry more weight. Also any 'new' evidence would have to fit the original tale, rather than create a new one to include it?

Unfortunately for Jeremy he forgot to factor in the call he made to Julie at 3am.  He couldn't have told Julie about a call from his father which he had not yet received.   

So assuming his father phoned him before 3am, it then took him 35 minutes to be bothered to phone the police.  No matter which way you look at it, his version just doesn't add up!

[Caroline]

Unfortunately for Jeremy he forgot to factor in the call he made to Julie at 3am.  He couldn't have told Julie about a call from his father which he had not yet received.   

So assuming his father phoned him before 3am, it then took him 35 minutes to be bothered to phone the police.  No matter which way you look at it, his version just doesn't add up!

This is one of the reasons I changed my mind, the times don't add up and you can't shift and change them to suit a new story. Of course people can forget things over time, but Jeremy initially gave 03:10 as the time his father called, now the OS are trying to suggest he called police at 03:36 so what was he doing for almost 26 minutes?  &%+((£

[Caroline]

You have been able to argue, quite forcibly I might add for some 2 years, that the phone calls were made as JB claimed.  Now you are able to argue the exact opposite.  How are you able to do this?  Imo because they are highly subjective with absolutely no reliable evidence to prove whether they were made as JB claimed or not.

Well actually, the reason I don't believe the call occurred is because until recently, I thought (as did many others) that the (so called) missing phone log, was the log with Nevill's details. However, after scrutinising the OS, I realised that it was actually that log that was made available to the jury and the one with Jeremy's details, (read out by West in court), was supposed to be the newly discovered gem. So in actuality, there never were any missing logs or logs held back from the defense/jury. Both logs formed part of the evidence!

Then I thought about the times given by Jeremy in the initial stages of the investigation (03:10 - call from his father). However, the OS is now stating that Jeremy called police at 03:36 but only since the (so called) newly 'discovered' log. In order to fit with the notion that Nevill called the police, they have to move the time of Jeremy's call to police; which leaves them with 26 minutes to account for. There is only one truth and if Jeremy called the police at 03:36, why didn't he mention this 29 years ago and explain what he was doing for the 26 minutes in between?

[Holly Goodhead]

Well actually, the reason I don't believe the call occurred is because until recently, I thought (as did many others) that the (so called) missing phone log, was the log with Nevill's details. However, after scrutinising the OS, I realised that it was actually that log that was made available to the jury and the one with Jeremy's details, (read out by West in court), was supposed to be the newly discovered gem. So in actuality, there never were any missing logs or logs held back from the defense/jury. Both logs formed part of the evidence!

Then I thought about the times given by Jeremy in the initial stages of the investigation (03:10 - call from his father). However, the OS is now stating that Jeremy called police at 03:36 but only since the (so called) newly 'discovered' log. In order to fit with the notion that Nevill called the police, they have to move the time of Jeremy's call to police; which leaves them with 26 minutes to account for. There is only one truth and if Jeremy called the police at 03:36, why didn't he mention this 29 years ago and explain what he was doing for the 26 minutes in between?

Are you able to include documentary evidence to support your assertions above please?  Without it the post lacks credibility and is difficult for me to follow.

You have recently made several assertions as follows:

- West claimed JB said NB sounded terrified during the hotly disputed phone call.

- JB claimed NB sounded injured when JB received the hotly disputed phone call.

- JB was tied to WHF/farming in order to inherit as per NB's and June's wills and clauses within

I have previously asked you to post evidence to support your assertions but to date nothing.

Wherever possible I take the time and effort to support my assertions with documentary evidence or other such evidence eg photos, video clips etc otherwise, as I said, the posts lack credibility.  It also aids further debate as the supporting evidence may be open to interpretation etc.  I think where possible we should attempt to up our game and weed out the dross  

[Caroline]

Are you able to include documentary evidence to support your assertions above please?  Without it the post lacks credibility and is difficult for me to follow.

You have recently made several assertions as follows:

- West claimed JB said NB sounded terrified during the hotly disputed phone call.

- JB claimed NB sounded injured when JB received the hotly disputed phone call.

- JB was tied to WHF/farming in order to inherit as per NB's and June's wills and clauses within

I have previously asked you to post evidence to support your assertions but to date nothing.

Wherever possible I take the time and effort to support my assertions with documentary evidence or other such evidence eg photos, video clips etc otherwise, as I said, the posts lack credibility.  It also aids further debate as the supporting evidence may be open to interpretation etc.  I think where possible we should attempt to up our game and weed out the dross

The last post I made has nothing to do with NB being injured or Jeremy stating his father sounded terrified. The evidence for my 'assertions' are documented on the OS. You already have JB's initial statement where he claims he received a call from NB about 03:10, if you read the OS about the phone logs, you will see that the (so called) missing log isn't the one written as though NB had called, it's the one with Jeremy's details. The claim is that Jeremy called police at 03:36 to coincide with the log written by West.

 http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/nevill-s-call-to-police

You must have seen this discussion on the blue forum, it's been going on for ages! If Jeremy didn't call the police until 03:36, what was he doing for 26 minutes? It's not an assertion, it's what's being claimed!!

I think where ever possible we should quit being snide and stop trying to score points. The reference to Jeremy claiming his father sounded terrified etc. is pretty basic stuff BUT when I have time to seek out the statements I will do, until then you'll just have to exercise a little patience.

[Holly Goodhead]

Well actually, the reason I don't believe the call occurred is because until recently, I thought (as did many others) that the (so called) missing phone log, was the log with Nevill's details. However, after scrutinising the OS, I realised that it was actually that log that was made available to the jury and the one with Jeremy's details, (read out by West in court), was supposed to be the newly discovered gem. So in actuality, there never were any missing logs or logs held back from the defense/jury. Both logs formed part of the evidence!

Then I thought about the times given by Jeremy in the initial stages of the investigation (03:10 - call from his father). However, the OS is now stating that Jeremy called police at 03:36 but only since the (so called) newly 'discovered' log. In order to fit with the notion that Nevill called the police, they have to move the time of Jeremy's call to police; which leaves them with 26 minutes to account for. There is only one truth and if Jeremy called the police at 03:36, why didn't he mention this 29 years ago and explain what he was doing for the 26 minutes in between?

I have paid very little attention to the times of the phone calls.  The reason for this is that imo there's not one single reliable piece of data on which to base any of the others.  It is, again imo, a complete travesty of justice that any of this was allowed to go before the court.

I have extracted an excerpt from the CoA doc:

26. PC West recorded the time of the appellant's call as 3.36 a.m. At trial it was accepted that the officer had misread a digital clock. The officer's contact with Mr Bonnett was recorded as being at 3.26 a.m. and it seems clear that the appellant's call must have been at 3.26 a.m. or very shortly before.

If it was accepted at trial that PC West misread the clock how can we be sure that Mr Bonnett's recording was correct?  And what is the definition of "very shortly before"?

I have paid even less attention to the 'official site' as it seems clear to me that much of the information is inaccurate eg the blood evidence as pointed out by Mark Webster:

http://www.forensic-science.co.uk/bamber.html

I don't wish to appear overly critical of the 'official site' but imo it lacks any credibility whatsoever.  The 'official site' need to work with professionals to make the site credible and authentic.  Otherwise I don't really see the difference between posts on Blue made by a bunch of lay people and the 'official site'  &%+((£

[Holly Goodhead]

The last post I made has nothing to do with NB being injured or Jeremy stating his father sounded terrified. The evidence for my 'assertions' are documented on the OS. You already have JB's initial statement where he claims he received a call from NB about 03:10, if you read the OS about the phone logs, you will see that the (so called) missing log isn't the one written as though NB had called, it's the one with Jeremy's details. The claim is that Jeremy called police at 03:36 to coincide with the log written by West.

 http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/nevill-s-call-to-police

You must have seen this discussion on the blue forum, it's been going on for ages! If Jeremy didn't call the police until 03:36, what was he doing for 26 minutes? It's not an assertion, it's what's being claimed!!

I think where ever possible we should quit being snide and stop trying to score points. The reference to Jeremy claiming his father sounded terrified etc. is pretty basic stuff BUT when I have time to seek out the statements I will do, until then you'll just have to exercise a little patience.

I have posted on this thread AE's statement where she states JB claimed NB called at 3.00am.  If this is correct what was JB doing for 36 minutes?  &%+((£  Is this the reason JB only had a bacon sarnie ie he cooked himself a full English before calling the police  &%+((£

Joanne Woad claimed he called JM at 2.00am:

309. Joanne Woad first made a statement on 16 September. In that statement she said that she thought the time was about 2 a.m. On 3 October, she made a further statement in which she explained why she had said about 2 a.m. She said:

"In my original statement I stated that this call was at 2 a.m. To be more precise I can add that when I awoke I remember looking at my digital radio/alarm clock at the foot of my bed and reading the hour figure as "2". I do not remember noting the minute reading and therefore the time could have been anywhere between 2 a.m. and 2.59 a.m."
 
My brain is hurting very, very much 

I'm going to see a hairy man on a sparsely populated island to see if he can help with my enquiries 

[Caroline]

I have posted on this thread AE's statement where she states JB claimed NB called at 3.00am.  If this is correct what was JB doing for 36 minutes?  &%+((£  Is this the reason JB only had a bacon sarnie ie he cooked himself a full English before calling the police  &%+((£

Joanne Woad claimed he called JM at 2.00am:

309. Joanne Woad first made a statement on 16 September. In that statement she said that she thought the time was about 2 a.m. On 3 October, she made a further statement in which she explained why she had said about 2 a.m. She said:

"In my original statement I stated that this call was at 2 a.m. To be more precise I can add that when I awoke I remember looking at my digital radio/alarm clock at the foot of my bed and reading the hour figure as "2". I do not remember noting the minute reading and therefore the time could have been anywhere between 2 a.m. and 2.59 a.m."
 
My brain is hurting very, very much 

I'm going to see a hairy man on a sparsely populated island to see if he can help with my enquiries

Bon Voyage!

[Caroline]

The claim is that he called the police at 03:36 to correspond with the log written by West.

[adam]

You're correct.

Is he still saying he got Neville's call at 3.10am ? What was he doing for 26 minutes ?

[Holly Goodhead]

You're correct.

Is he still saying he got Neville's call at 3.10am ? What was he doing for 26 minutes ?

Ann Eaton's WS states he received NB's call at 3.00am.  36 mins would give him enough time for a full English before calling the police?  Hence he only had a bacon sarnie when he returned to Goldhanger with EP?   

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=2189

[adam]

Ann Eaton's WS states he received NB's call at 3.00am.  36 mins would give him enough time for a full English before calling the police?  Hence he only had a bacon sarnie when he returned to Goldhanger with EP?   

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=2189

So he 'immediately' called the police after a full English.

What do you think happened after the phone call went dead ?

[Holly Goodhead]

So he 'immediately' called the police after a full English.

What do you think happened after the phone call went dead ?

How do we know he called EP immediately?  You appear to believe JB on this occasion?  I reckon he would feel pretty peckish after cycling to WHF and back in a wetsuit.  Needs must.  Psychopaths want instant gratification.   

NB run upstairs.  Perhaps June was sitting up in bed and he heard her scream as SC entered?  It would be useful to understand the order of wounds to June and her position in bed when she received the first shots.  We might then be able to determine whether or not she was awake?  Either way I think some noise from the main bedroom caused NB to leave the phone on the worktop and run upstairs.