TORTURE 1. Michael Cook case

[debunker]

@ sadie

So you can find four or five cases of suspects being allegedly ill-treated by the Portuguese police. I can swamp that if you like by reports of ill-treatment by our good old British bobbies, some even by Nick Davies.

Why the very people who are carrying out the review SY are implicated in some of the cases, just ask Barry George. In fact the police fitting up of suspects is so rife that we even have a miscarriage of justice organisation to deal with the cases in doubt.

Faithlily

The British Polce are generally good, but nobody is saying they are perfect.   HOWEVER find me cases of Torture in the UK.

This topic is TORTURE by the PJ, and by gawd there is plenty of evidence of that

There was plenty in the 70s and 80s before PACE. You may be too young to remember.

It was not abnormal for the police to use rubber hose beatings (leaves limited marks) or suffocation by plastic bag- much like water boarding.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/west-midlands-serious-crime-squad-police-unit-to-blame-for-dozens-more-injustices-1120219.html

Really ? Before Pace you say ?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-used-unsuitable-force-on-mentally-ill-man-sean-rigg-who-died-in-custody-jury-finds-7999484.html

Try reading and understanding English.

As I said there was "...plenty in the 70s and 80s before PACE". Note the word 'plenty'. After PACE there has been considerably less, but it still happens.

You see when you use the word 'plenty' it does not mean there was none afterwards.

..........................moderated......................

[sadie]

Faithlily

You are missing the point.  This is about the Torture of the PJ in the Algarve ... and there is plenty of evidence of that.

Nothing to do with the PJ in general ... or the British Police.




Please do not side track the discussion

[faithlilly]

Faithlily

You are missing the point.  This is about the Torture of the PJ in the Algarve ... and there is plenty of evidence of that.

Nothing to do with the PJ in general ... or the British Police.




Please do not side track the discussion

There is not 'plenty of evidence' of torture by the PJ. You have posted about four or five, one of them certainly questionable due to Cipriano's conviction for perjury.

The point I was making is there are many examples of maltreatment in custody in UK  yet we don't tar all police with the same brush and that is very relevant to a discussion where you are trying to imply torture is rife in Portugal because of a few isolated incidents.

[debunker]

Faithlily

You are missing the point.  This is about the Torture of the PJ in the Algarve ... and there is plenty of evidence of that.

Nothing to do with the PJ in general ... or the British Police.




Please do not side track the discussion

There is not 'plenty of evidence' of torture by the PJ. You have posted about four or five, one of them certainly questionable due to Cipriano's conviction for perjury.

The point I was making is there are many examples of maltreatment in custody in UK  yet we don't tar all police with the same brush and that is very relevant to a discussion where you are trying to imply torture is rife in Portugal because of a few isolated incidents.

I made a p PST earlier today showing that torture and beatings are stillcomon in Portuguese police interrogations. That is not currently the case in the UK.

[debunker]

Here
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1365.0

[faithlilly]

@ sadie

So you can find four or five cases of suspects being allegedly ill-treated by the Portuguese police. I can swamp that if you like by reports of ill-treatment by our good old British bobbies, some even by Nick Davies.

Why the very people who are carrying out the review SY are implicated in some of the cases, just ask Barry George. In fact the police fitting up of suspects is so rife that we even have a miscarriage of justice organisation to deal with the cases in doubt.

Faithlily

The British Polce are generally good, but nobody is saying they are perfect.   HOWEVER find me cases of Torture in the UK.

This topic is TORTURE by the PJ, and by gawd there is plenty of evidence of that

There was plenty in the 70s and 80s before PACE. You may be too young to remember.

It was not abnormal for the police to use rubber hose beatings (leaves limited marks) or suffocation by plastic bag- much like water boarding.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/west-midlands-serious-crime-squad-police-unit-to-blame-for-dozens-more-injustices-1120219.html

Really ? Before Pace you say ?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-used-unsuitable-force-on-mentally-ill-man-sean-rigg-who-died-in-custody-jury-finds-7999484.html

Try reading and understanding English.

As I said there was "...plenty in the 70s and 80s before PACE". Note the word 'plenty'. After PACE there has been considerably less, but it still happens.

You see when you use the word 'plenty' it does not mean there was none afterwards Only a really stupid person with poor English comprehension would make that error. Or someone so biassed that they were more interested in point scoring rather than finding the truth.

The article proves maltreatment is still a rife. You implied it wasn't.

There is no place in proper debate for personal insults, unless of course you have nothing else to 'debate' with 

[debunker]

@ sadie

So you can find four or five cases of suspects being allegedly ill-treated by the Portuguese police. I can swamp that if you like by reports of ill-treatment by our good old British bobbies, some even by Nick Davies.

Why the very people who are carrying out the review SY are implicated in some of the cases, just ask Barry George. In fact the police fitting up of suspects is so rife that we even have a miscarriage of justice organisation to deal with the cases in doubt.

Faithlily

The British Polce are generally good, but nobody is saying they are perfect.   HOWEVER find me cases of Torture in the UK.

This topic is TORTURE by the PJ, and by gawd there is plenty of evidence of that

There was plenty in the 70s and 80s before PACE. You may be too young to remember.

It was not abnormal for the police to use rubber hose beatings (leaves limited marks) or suffocation by plastic bag- much like water boarding.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/west-midlands-serious-crime-squad-police-unit-to-blame-for-dozens-more-injustices-1120219.html

Really ? Before Pace you say ?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-used-unsuitable-force-on-mentally-ill-man-sean-rigg-who-died-in-custody-jury-finds-7999484.html

Try reading and understanding English.

As I said there was "...plenty in the 70s and 80s before PACE". Note the word 'plenty'. After PACE there has been considerably less, but it still happens.

You see when you use the word 'plenty' it does not mean there was none afterwards Only a really stupid person with poor English comprehension would make that error. Or someone so biassed that they were more interested in point scoring rather than finding the truth.

The article proves maltreatment is still a rife. You implied it wasn't.

There is no place in proper debate for personal insults, unless of course you have nothing else to 'debate' with 

All the article shows is that the police used  a dangerous method of restraint. He was not being tortured to get a confession.

[sadie]

FGS

Did you read the opening post, which is part of Hansard records

Cook appeared in court, with black eyes and a missing tooth, and he was deeply bruised. It is claimed that Cook was hung from an upstairs window by his feet, that his feet were beaten until he could not stand, that he was tied to a chair and beaten, that he was deprived of sleep, and that a revolver was forced into his mouth and the trigger pulled in a mock execution.

Just a tiny guy, 5ft tall, hung upside down from an upstairs window, by his feet.   Feet beaten, deprived of sleep, revolver forced in his mouth and trigger pulled in mock execution, black eyes and a missing tooth.  And more in the second post.

Was he ever tortured!

[Redblossom]

And how do you know that the money is coming from The Fund?  No one has lost yet.  So we don't know who will be paying.

It is a FACT that the fund was used for portuguese lawyers to challenge Mr Amaral in court,you obviously havent read their accounts for 2009 and 2010, thats pretty basic stuff