Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!

[Venturi Swirl]

You are absolutely wrong if you think former Labour voters believed Johnson had their best interests at heart, they didn’t. What they did believe is that he was their only chance of pushing Brexit over the line so voted for him anyway, many many holding their noses as they did. I have heard many, many of those voters interviewed since and their shame at that decision, if not regret, is plain to see.

Not sure how you come to the conclusion that Corbyn thought the electorate is stupid, gullible etc etc but only the truly dim witted could possibly deny that propaganda was used expertly in this election campaign and when 88% of Conservative posts have been deemed untrue to compared to almost zero for Labour you can see who was pushing the most dishonest campaign.

What part of ‘we are a democratic party ‘ don’t you get ? The decision was not his alone to make.

Being a democratic party doesn’t mean the leader must abnegate their responsibility to lead, which is precisely what Corbyn did.   You don’t seem to understand that many ex-Labour voters believe fervently that Brexit IS in their best interests and that’s why they voted for Boris.  Labour and Corbyn let their traditional voting base down by not listening to them and by doing everything in their power to thwart Brexit, and their traditional voters felt played for fools.  It seems none of Jeremy’s fanbase is prepared to accept this and instead can only blame the media and all the beastly people who ganged up on their saintly hero.  You just don’t get it and you never will, nor it seems will you ever get over it or move on. Instead it seems you want to cry over spilt milk and stamp you feet about it until you browbeat us into submission.

[Venturi Swirl]

I have to disagree with you about the media. It is certainly no coincidence that the only Labour governments we have had in the last 40 years have been supported by Murdoch. We have both seen the way propaganda has been used very successfully in the McCann case. These are the very same strategies used in the politics of today.

Further where is the challenge from the people ? Johnson wanted Brexit, it wasn’t brought about by the will of the people.....it serves his and his party’s interests not his electorate and we will see this disregard for their needs in the coming months and years. As to a looming civil war, it’s hard to wage war when you’re using all your energy just to keep a roof over your head and feed your children.

Your last point I’m afraid I agree with although if forced to be pragmatic I believe Starmer would be the strongest candidate when faced with Johnson.

Bolded above - a perfect example of delusion and the contmpt in which people like you hold the general public.  Brexit may be a terrible idea but one thing you cannot say in a democratic vote is that it was not “the will of the people”.  It was, inarguably. 

[faithlilly]

Being a democratic party doesn’t mean the leader must abnegate their responsibility to lead, which is precisely what Corbyn did.   You don’t seem to understand that many ex-Labour voters believe fervently that Brexit IS in their best interests and that’s why they voted for Boris.  Labour and Corbyn let their traditional voting base down by not listening to them and by doing everything in their power to thwart Brexit, and their traditional voters felt played for fools.  It seems none of Jeremy’s fanbase is prepared to accept this and instead can only blame the media and all the beastly people who ganged up on their saintly hero.  You just don’t get it and you never will, nor it seems will you ever get over it or move on. Instead it seems you want to cry over spilt milk and stamp you feet about it until you browbeat us into submission.

You said that the voters could see that Johnson cared for them...not true. That they felt betrayed by the stalemate that Brexit had become, I absolutely agree. That they held their noses and voted for a conman and a liar because of this, absolutely true. Labour made the wrong call and we, as a country, will long live to regret it.

As to the monstering of Corbyn in the MSM, also a factor in Labour’s defeat, it is interesting that while you wholeheartedly support the notion that the McCann’s continuing unpopularity is in part due to that same MSM and its monstering of them, you are blind to the very same strategies when directed at Corbyn.

Your posts seem to be more and more confused. Was it Corbyn’s unpopularity that lost him the election or that he supported a second referendum....or are you going to hedge your bets at a bit of both ?

[faithlilly]

Bolded above - a perfect example of delusion and the contmpt in which people like you hold the general public.  Brexit may be a terrible idea but one thing you cannot say in a democratic vote is that it was not “the will of the people”.  It was, inarguably.

That’s not what I’m saying but it’s worth remembering that with only 72% turnout, only 37% voted to leave. The rest either didn’t care or didn’t want to leave so hardly a resounding win for ‘the will of the people’.

Anyway back to the meat. Do you truly think that Johnson had the people’s will at heart when pushing for Brexit or merely that leaving the EU suited his own particular agenda ?

[Venturi Swirl]

You said that the voters could see that Johnson cared for them...not true. That they felt betrayed by the stalemate that Brexit had become, I absolutely agree. That they held their noses and voted for a conman and a liar because of this, absolutely true. Labour made the wrong call and we, as a country, will long live to regret it.

As to the monstering of Corbyn in the MSM, also a factor in Labour’s defeat, it is interesting that while you wholeheartedly support the notion that the McCann’s continuing unpopularity is in part due to that same MSM and its monstering of them, you are blind to the very same strategies when directed at Corbyn.

Your posts seem to be more and more confused. Was it Corbyn’s unpopularity that lost him the election or that he supported a second referendum....or are you going to hedge your bets at a bit of both ?

You are continually misrepresenting what I have said.  I said that those who voted for Boris believed he and not Corbyn could be trusted to deliver their will, ie Brexit.  I never mentioned anything about a belief in caring, that was your word.  How bloody awful Labour must be that the general public would prefer a “liar and a conman” (of course no such thing as anti Boris propaganda!) to St Jeremy.  That must really have his acolytes scratching their heads in dismay.  And for once can we be a bit more grown up and leave thr McCanns a(and the Nazis too, while we’re at it) out of the discussion?

[Venturi Swirl]

That’s not what I’m saying but it’s worth remembering that with only 72% turnout, only 37% voted to leave. The rest either didn’t care or didn’t want to leave so hardly a resounding win for ‘the will of the people’.

Anyway back to the meat. Do you truly think that Johnson had the people’s will at heart when pushing for Brexit or merely that leaving the EU suited his own particular agenda ?

Oh right, so you don’t believe in the democratic process then, just so long as we’re clear about it.  I think there is plenty of anti Boris propaganda which you seem to be spouting at the moment and as for his true intentions, well we shall know them in the fullness of time.  My belief is that he is an opportunist who saw Brexit as a means to an end but Brexit is what the people wanted and if he delivers what they want then there’s not much more to be said about it.  He did what they wanted.

[faithlilly]

You are continually misrepresenting what I have said.  I said that those who voted for Boris believed he and not Corbyn could be trusted to deliver their will, ie Brexit.  I never mentioned anything about a belief in caring, that was your word.  How bloody awful Labour must be that the general public would prefer a “liar and a conman” (of course no such thing as anti Boris propaganda!) to St Jeremy.  That must really have his acolytes scratching their heads in dismay.  And for once can we be a bit more grown up and leave thr McCanns a(and the Nazis too, while we’re at it) out of the discussion?

I really don’t understand why you continue to deny how deplorably maligned Corbyn has been for the last 5 years and how that pernicious drip, drip, drip of vitriolic propaganda would have coloured the electorates view of him. Taking one example....the Sun, a Murdoch monstrosity, printed a photograph of Corbyn making his way to the cenotaph, apparently upbeat and dancing. What the whole photograph really showed was Corbyn deep in conversation with a WW2 veteran.

https://www.joe.co.uk/news/the-sun-shamefully-doctor-image-to-suggest-jeremy-corbyn-was-dancing-on-remembrance-sunday-97629

And this

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/nov/08/jeremy-corbyn-cenotaph-bow-scrutinised-social-media-remembrance-sunday
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyns-coat-armistice-day-service-cenotaph-218346

Yet Johnson, this year at the cenotaph, appeared to have got dressed in the dark, walked forward to lay his wreath before protocol dictated and laid it upside down received very little censure. In fact the BBC chose to use 3 year old footage instead on a their main news programmes.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bbc-boris-johnson-brexit-wreath-laying-cenotaph-footage-wrong-old-tory-bias-a9198521.html

There are, off course, many, many, many more examples but I’m sure you’ll be able to access them for yourself.

As to the McCanns, the only reason I brought them into the debate is to point out the hypocrisy of you ability to believe that the public’s perception of the parents was coloured by the MSM but that it was laughable that Corbyn had suffered in the same way.

[Venturi Swirl]

I really don’t understand why you continue to deny how deplorably maligned Corbyn has been for the last 5 years and how that pernicious drip, drip, drip of vitriolic propaganda would have coloured the electorates view of him. Taking one example....the Sun, a Murdoch monstrosity, printed a photograph of Corbyn making his way to the cenotaph, apparently upbeat and dancing. What the whole photograph really showed was Corbyn deep in conversation with a WW2 veteran.

https://www.joe.co.uk/news/the-sun-shamefully-doctor-image-to-suggest-jeremy-corbyn-was-dancing-on-remembrance-sunday-97629

And this

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/nov/08/jeremy-corbyn-cenotaph-bow-scrutinised-social-media-remembrance-sunday
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyns-coat-armistice-day-service-cenotaph-218346

Yet Johnson, this year at the cenotaph, appeared to have got dressed in the dark, walked forward to lay his wreath before protocol dictated and laid it upside down received very little censure. In fact the BBC chose to use 3 year old footage instead on a their main news programmes.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bbc-boris-johnson-brexit-wreath-laying-cenotaph-footage-wrong-old-tory-bias-a9198521.html

There are, off course, many, many, many more examples but I’m sure you’ll be able to access them for yourself.

As to the McCanns, the only reason I brought them into the debate is to point out the hypocrisy of you ability to believe that the public’s perception of the parents was coloured by the MSM but that it was laughable that Corbyn had suffered in the same way.

Deflecting in other words.  I’m sure poor old Corbyn has been misrepresented and maligned in much the same way as the McCanns.  As you seem keen to bring them into the discussion does that mean therefore that in your opinion the McCanns did nothing wrong, deserved no criticism in the press and that public perception of them was completely wrong and is only because the stupid GBP are just so thick and gullible they just lapped up every word the press printed?

[Venturi Swirl]

Out of interest do you think the media generally portrayed May and Cameron sympathetically.  I have never felt sorry for a PM before May and the way she was treated by the media,and Cameron was routinely depicted as a pig f..king toff before her, ridiculed and lambasted at every opportunity by left wing commentators online and in the media.  These people however have to be held to account and if they have a past record as dodgy as Corbyn’s then it is their job to expose it.  Corbyn and his supporters really should not have been remotely surprised at how he was portrayed- as a terrorist apologist / sympathiser, someone who is not a patriot but someone who actually seems ashamed of his own country.

[faithlilly]

Deflecting in other words.  I’m sure poor old Corbyn has been misrepresented and maligned in much the same way as the McCanns.  As you seem keen to bring them into the discussion does that mean therefore that in your opinion the McCanns did nothing wrong, deserved no criticism in the press and that public perception of them was completely wrong and is only because the stupid GBP are just so thick and gullible they just lapped up every word the press printed?

It appears that it is you who is deflecting.....again.

As to the McCanns although I do believe that they had a hand in their daughter’s disappearance I think much of what is still doing the rounds of social media about them and the case is absolute nonsense perpetrated, in great part, by the MSM.

[faithlilly]

Oh right, so you don’t believe in the democratic process then, just so long as we’re clear about it.  I think there is plenty of anti Boris propaganda which you seem to be spouting at the moment and as for his true intentions, well we shall know them in the fullness of time.  My belief is that he is an opportunist who saw Brexit as a means to an end but Brexit is what the people wanted and if he delivers what they want then there’s not much more to be said about it.  He did what they wanted.

Anti-Boris propaganda? Please point out where anything I have posted about Johnson that is untrue ?

He did what he wanted, that 37% of the UK electorate agreed was coincidental.

[Venturi Swirl]

Anti-Boris propaganda? Please point out where anything I have posted about Johnson that is untrue ?

He did what he wanted, that 37% of the UK electorate agreed was coincidental.

Oh my god, that is such blatant bullshit and a twisting of the facts.  Boris campaigned for Brexit, the public voted for Brexit in the largest ever democratic vote this country has ever seen and Boris delivered his promise.  Boris was only given a mandate to “do what he wanted” because he got a huge majority from the electorate to do as they wanted too. 

[Venturi Swirl]

It appears that it is you who is deflecting.....again.

As to the McCanns although I do believe that they had a hand in their daughter’s disappearance I think much of what is still doing the rounds of social media about them and the case is absolute nonsense perpetrated, in great part, by the MSM.

The people doing the malicious lie spreading on social media have conveniently overlooked the fact that the lies that were printed in the MSM nearly thirteen years ago were exposed as lies and the perpetrators punished in the form of large libel payouts.   

[faithlilly]

Oh my god, that is such blatant bullshit and a twisting of the facts.  Boris campaigned for Brexit, the public voted for Brexit in the largest ever democratic vote this country has ever seen and Boris delivered his promise.  Boris was only given a mandate to “do what he wanted” because he got a huge majority from the electorate to do as they wanted too.

There are reams of columns dedicated to Johnson’s indecision over who to back in the Brexit debate. He plumped for Leave as it was best for his own private advancement. To his credit he read the British public much better than Cameron, or even Corbyn.

 During the election he played the ‘little Englander’ card to perfection, widening an already huge fissure in the population, a fissure I fear that may never be healed.

[faithlilly]

The people doing the malicious lie spreading on social media have conveniently overlooked the fact that the lies that were printed in the MSM nearly thirteen years ago were exposed as lies and the perpetrators punished in the form of large libel payouts.

But still the lies persist.