Author Topic: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?  (Read 13059 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Nicholas

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2018, 02:35:26 PM »
Is this for David's "fresh evidence breakthrough?"
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2018, 03:35:10 PM »
Is this for David's "fresh evidence breakthrough?"

No.  The purpose of this thread is to show David is wrong with his interpretation of what constitutes fresh evidence. 

David's so-called breakthrough has been referred to on the forums as 'forensic evidence breakthrough'.  IMO there's nothing remotely forensic or evidential about it and it would struggle to break through a paper bag. 

I will not reduce myself to David's level in betraying a confidence but of course it's always there as ammo in the stockpile if needed.  I will say most of David's theories involve Dr Vanezis acting incompetently and/or negligently and/or perverting the course of justice.  These theories include:

- David's forensic evidence breakthrough
- A recently (in relation to date of trial) emerged image of SC's foot containing what David considers are bloodstains which Dr Vanezis overlooked
- Images of victims sustaining defence wounds which Dr Vanezis overlooked

There's of course no evidence for this.  Even if the images are authentic it is likely lay people are simply misinterpreting dried bloodstains. Dr Vanezis didn't view the victims at soc but saw soc images and obviously saw victims in person during autopsies.  Prof Knight for the defence viewed soc images and autopsy images.  Neither disagreed other than over the burn marks to NB's back.  Therefore if David is correct Dr Vanezis and Prof Knight must be wrong.  Both men have/had long careers with unblemished records and spent years studying and training.  It really gets silly.

David will probably be thinking what makes me right about the QC's being wrong.  Difference is pathologists are experts in a specific field based on scientific principles.  QC's are simply advocates attempting to sell a narrative to 12 jurors about subject matters that, in the main, they've received little or no formal education/training in.  Yes QC's hopefully understand the law.  But they are not experts in pathology or ballistics or blood serology or DNA etc, etc.  A QC needs to tease out what's relevant, sew together the strands to form a coherent narrative and pictures for jurors.  IMO the scope for something going wrong is significant especially if the experts are sub-standard eg the generalists at FSS. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Nicholas

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2018, 03:49:19 PM »
No.  The purpose of this thread is to show David is wrong with his interpretation of what constitutes fresh evidence. 

David's so-called breakthrough has been referred to on the forums as 'forensic evidence breakthrough'.  IMO there's nothing remotely forensic or evidential about it and it would struggle to break through a paper bag. 

I will not reduce myself to David's level in betraying a confidence but of course it's always there as ammo in the stockpile if needed.  I will say most of David's theories involve Dr Vanezis acting incompetently and/or negligently and/or perverting the course of justice.  These theories include:

- David's forensic evidence breakthrough
- A recently (in relation to date of trial) emerged image of SC's foot containing what David considers are bloodstains which Dr Vanezis overlooked
- Images of victims sustaining defence wounds which Dr Vanezis overlooked

There's of course no evidence for this.  Even if the images are authentic it is likely lay people are simply misinterpreting dried bloodstains. Dr Vanezis didn't view the victims at soc but saw soc images and obviously saw victims in person during autopsies.  Prof Knight for the defence viewed soc images and autopsy images.  Neither disagreed other than over the burn marks to NB's back.  Therefore if David is correct Dr Vanezis and Prof Knight must be wrong.  Both men have/had long careers with unblemished records and spent years studying and training.  It really gets silly.

David will probably be thinking what makes me right about the QC's being wrong.  Difference is pathologists are experts in a specific field based on scientific principles.  QC's are simply advocates attempting to sell a narrative to 12 jurors about subject matters that, in the main, they've received little or no formal education/training in.  Yes QC's hopefully understand the law.  But they are not experts in pathology or ballistics or blood serology or DNA etc, etc.  A QC needs to tease out what's relevant, sew together the strands to form a coherent narrative and pictures for jurors.  IMO the scope for something going wrong is significant especially if the experts are sub-standard eg the generalists at FSS.

Is he worth your confidences?

Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2018, 03:53:55 PM »
David I see a poster on IA by the name of Pussy Catty Galore has responded to your last post:

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2684

Anyway I digress.  David re your interpretations of 'Fresh Evidence' the above link from Doughty Chambers re Criticism of Trial Lawyers:

What the grounds must show

- Errors, mistakes, omissions, even negligence alone will not be enough to succeed.

- The failings must go directly to issue

- Need to show how it affected:
   - the proper presentation of defence case
   - the ability to undermine the prosecution case


Seems to me there's plenty of scope to undermine "the cleverest of the clever" and your QC crush "secure a result like no others". 

If criticism of trial lawyers (and appeal) wasn't a possibility it would make a mockery of the process/system.



Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Nicholas

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2018, 04:01:35 PM »
David I see a poster on IA by the name of Pussy Catty Galore has responded to your last post:

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2684

Anyway I digress.  David re your interpretations of 'Fresh Evidence' the above link from Doughty Chambers re Criticism of Trial Lawyers:

What the grounds must show

- Errors, mistakes, omissions, even negligence alone will not be enough to succeed.

- The failings must go directly to issue

- Need to show how it affected:
   - the proper presentation of defence case
   - the ability to undermine the prosecution case


Seems to me there's plenty of scope to undermine "the cleverest of the clever" and your QC crush "secure a result like no others". 

If criticism of trial lawyers (and appeal) wasn't a possibility it would make a mockery of the process/system.

I think you posted this the other day re the IA forum. Why does it appear so important to you that David responds to you? He's a moron Holly! He showed his true colours not long after joining the blue forum. He was abusive to me then turned on Caroline and JaneJ.

He made a plank of himself regarding his "forensic evidence breakthrough" and that little nugget doesn't appear to have been missed by anyone.
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2018, 04:05:47 PM »
No.  The purpose of this thread is to show David is wrong with his interpretation of what constitutes fresh evidence. 

David's so-called breakthrough has been referred to on the forums as 'forensic evidence breakthrough'.  IMO there's nothing remotely forensic or evidential about it and it would struggle to break through a paper bag. 

I will not reduce myself to David's level in betraying a confidence but of course it's always there as ammo in the stockpile if needed.  I will say most of David's theories involve Dr Vanezis acting incompetently and/or negligently and/or perverting the course of justice.  These theories include:

- David's forensic evidence breakthrough
- A recently (in relation to date of trial) emerged image of SC's foot containing what David considers are bloodstains which Dr Vanezis overlooked
- Images of victims sustaining defence wounds which Dr Vanezis overlooked

There's of course no evidence for this.  Even if the images are authentic it is likely lay people are simply misinterpreting dried bloodstains. Dr Vanezis didn't view the victims at soc but saw soc images and obviously saw victims in person during autopsies.  Prof Knight for the defence viewed soc images and autopsy images.  Neither disagreed other than over the burn marks to NB's back.  Therefore if David is correct Dr Vanezis and Prof Knight must be wrong.  Both men have/had long careers with unblemished records and spent years studying and training.  It really gets silly.

David will probably be thinking what makes me right about the QC's being wrong.  Difference is pathologists are experts in a specific field based on scientific principles.  QC's are simply advocates attempting to sell a narrative to 12 jurors about subject matters that, in the main, they've received little or no formal education/training in.  Yes QC's hopefully understand the law.  But they are not experts in pathology or ballistics or blood serology or DNA etc, etc.  A QC needs to tease out what's relevant, sew together the strands to form a coherent narrative and pictures for jurors.  IMO the scope for something going wrong is significant especially if the experts are sub-standard eg the generalists at FSS.

David aside, I think this is a strong post albeit the fact that it was Bamber who instructed his legal teams, and his legal teams advanced his arguememts in court.

I don't know how you can conclude as you do, that the fault lies with his said legal teams.

They are mere mortals like you and I Holly; Bamber needed a miracle.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 04:11:16 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2018, 04:15:01 PM »
I think you posted this the other day re the IA forum. Why does it appear so important to you that David responds to you? He's a moron Holly! He showed his true colours not long after joining the blue forum. He was abusive to me then turned on Caroline and JaneJ.

He made a plank of himself regarding his "forensic evidence breakthrough" and that little nugget doesn't appear to have been missed by anyone.

I get perverse pleasure out of teasing him  8(8-))
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline John

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2018, 04:20:27 PM »
No.  The purpose of this thread is to show David is wrong with his interpretation of what constitutes fresh evidence. 

David's so-called breakthrough has been referred to on the forums as 'forensic evidence breakthrough'.  IMO there's nothing remotely forensic or evidential about it and it would struggle to break through a paper bag. 

I will not reduce myself to David's level in betraying a confidence but of course it's always there as ammo in the stockpile if needed.  I will say most of David's theories involve Dr Vanezis acting incompetently and/or negligently and/or perverting the course of justice.  These theories include:

- David's forensic evidence breakthrough
- A recently (in relation to date of trial) emerged image of SC's foot containing what David considers are bloodstains which Dr Vanezis overlooked
- Images of victims sustaining defence wounds which Dr Vanezis overlooked

There's of course no evidence for this.  Even if the images are authentic it is likely lay people are simply misinterpreting dried bloodstains. Dr Vanezis didn't view the victims at soc but saw soc images and obviously saw victims in person during autopsies.  Prof Knight for the defence viewed soc images and autopsy images.  Neither disagreed other than over the burn marks to NB's back.  Therefore if David is correct Dr Vanezis and Prof Knight must be wrong.  Both men have/had long careers with unblemished records and spent years studying and training.  It really gets silly.

David will probably be thinking what makes me right about the QC's being wrong.  Difference is pathologists are experts in a specific field based on scientific principles.  QC's are simply advocates attempting to sell a narrative to 12 jurors about subject matters that, in the main, they've received little or no formal education/training in.  Yes QC's hopefully understand the law.  But they are not experts in pathology or ballistics or blood serology or DNA etc, etc.  A QC needs to tease out what's relevant, sew together the strands to form a coherent narrative and pictures for jurors.  IMO the scope for something going wrong is significant especially if the experts are sub-standard eg the generalists at FSS.

An excellent post Holly.  It is an uphill struggle to bring any new evidence before any Appeal Court.  Such evidence if found has to be of such a standard that it is basically unchallengeable.

A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2018, 04:21:38 PM »
Is he worth your confidences?

I didn't reveal anything important.  The fact he has revealed what he has shows I made the right decision. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Nicholas

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2018, 04:25:34 PM »
I get perverse pleasure out of teasing him  8(8-))

Fair play
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

david1819

  • Guest
Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2018, 04:55:07 PM »
David I see a poster on IA by the name of Pussy Catty Galore has responded to your last post:

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2684

Anyway I digress.  David re your interpretations of 'Fresh Evidence' the above link from Doughty Chambers re Criticism of Trial Lawyers:

What the grounds must show

- Errors, mistakes, omissions, even negligence alone will not be enough to succeed.

- The failings must go directly to issue

- Need to show how it affected:
   - the proper presentation of defence case
   - the ability to undermine the prosecution case


Seems to me there's plenty of scope to undermine "the cleverest of the clever" and your QC crush "secure a result like no others". 

If criticism of trial lawyers (and appeal) wasn't a possibility it would make a mockery of the process/system.

Oh gee no one is ever going to guess who that poster is....   *%6^    &%^^  %77*

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2018, 11:08:19 AM »
David aside, I think this is a strong post albeit the fact that it was Bamber who instructed his legal teams, and his legal teams advanced his arguememts in court.

I don't know how you can conclude as you do, that the fault lies with his said legal teams.

They are mere mortals like you and I Holly; Bamber needed a miracle.

During JB's police interviews he was represented by a local solicitor by the name of Bruce Bowler if I've remembered the name correctly.  According to the various case related books when JB hooked up with Anji Greaves she decided he needed a high profile lawyer and turned to David Napley's firm: Kingsley Napley who you might recall represented several high profile clients during the 70's and 80's eg Jeremy Thorpe, Kevin Maxwell and Nick Leeson.  Solicitor Paul Terzeon handled JB's case.  JB wanted George Carmen QC to represent him at trial but apparently he didn't take on cases funded by legal aid so he ended up with Geoffrey Rivlin.  Again according to the various books JB wanted Rivlin to argue the silencer was fabricated evidence but Rivlin thought it too far fetched and instead of repudiating the blood/silencer evidence he choreographed it into the defence strategy.   
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2018, 11:11:24 AM »
An excellent post Holly.  It is an uphill struggle to bring any new evidence before any Appeal Court.  Such evidence if found has to be of such a standard that it is basically unchallengeable.

Thanks.  Yes totally agree and it's clear to see why the 2002 appeal ended up going nowhere.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2018, 11:13:36 AM »
Oh gee no one is ever going to guess who that poster is....   *%6^    &%^^  %77*

Ah, so you do get the obvious when you see it.

Are you going to respond to post #4? 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?