Strange Witness Statements

[sadie]

Logic would dictate that if the cot was blocking the door Madeleine could not have been inside.

I think it is silly for us to even think that we know the exact position that the cots were in.  So many people mayl have moved them around trying to find Madeleine.   Then they were stripped of bed linen after the twins were moved in the middle of the night.


There is even a photo showing the beds at right angles to the usual positions we see.   That is somewhere on the internet.


We just do not know the actual positions that they were in at the time.

[pathfinder73]

The right-hand cot would have had to have been moved to gain access to the window without disturbing the bed underneath. I'm not sure exactly where it was positioned when Kate entered the room at around 10pm, but she doesn't say she had to move it to check the wardrobe.
Poignantly, I can see where Madeleine's legs had lain under the covers in that photo, unless it's a trick of the light.

There was a gap between the cots for Kate to access the bed by the window. She slept in it the night before and didn't need to access the window that was always shut. And now you're claiming they're further tampering with the crime scene by moving cots before the police arrive. You can move between the cots and the bed to access the window. Now you know why I don't think an abductor would risk going to the window in the dark in case he left vital clues or woke the twins and then opened noisy shutters  8-)(--) More importantly wasting time! How anyone can not think it's strange and unlikely beats me.

Unanswered questions:

2.  Did you search inside the bedroom wardrobe? (she replied that she wouldn’t answer)

3. (shown 2 photographs of her bedroom wardrobe) Can you describe its contents?

5. How long did your search of the apartment take after you detected your daughter Madeleine’s disappearance?

26. Is it true that during the searches you remained seated on Maddie’s bed without moving?

Q.  Are you aware that in not answering the questions you are jeopardising the investigation, which seeks to discover what happened to your daughter?

A.  'Yes, if that’s what the investigation thinks.'

[misty]

There was a gap between the cots for Kate to access the bed by the window. She slept in it the night before and didn't need to access the window that was always shut. And now you're claiming they're further tampering with the crime scene by moving cots before the police arrive. You can move between the cots and the bed to access the window. Now you know why I don't think an abductor would risk going to the window in the dark in case he left vital clues or woke the twins and then opened noisy shutters  8-)(--) More importantly wasting time! How anyone can not think it's strange and unlikely beats me.

Unanswered questions:

2.  Did you search inside the bedroom wardrobe? (she replied that she wouldn’t answer)

3. (shown 2 photographs of her bedroom wardrobe) Can you describe its contents?

5. How long did your search of the apartment take after you detected your daughter Madeleine’s disappearance?

26. Is it true that during the searches you remained seated on Maddie’s bed without moving?

Q.  Are you aware that in not answering the questions you are jeopardising the investigation, which seeks to discover what happened to your daughter?

A.  'Yes, if that’s what the investigation thinks.'

I'm not claiming they tampered with the crime scene. I am merely saying that many people were in & out of that room before those photos were taken by CSI. The shutters were tested. Kate closed the window. How on earth you can categorically state that everything in that photo is eactly as Kate found it is silly - the cots have been stripped for starters. Or are you merely insinuating that Kate was lying about checking inside the wardrobe because she couldn't access it due to the position of the cots as shown in the photo?
I don't think for one minute an abductor went in or out of that window, with or without Madeleine. The window & shutters were opened from the inside for another purpose.

[sadie]

I'm not claiming they tampered with the crime scene. I am merely saying that many people were in & out of that room before those photos were taken by CSI. The shutters were tested. Kate closed the window. How on earth you can categorically state that everything in that photo is eactly as Kate found it is silly - the cots have been stripped for starters. Or are you merely insinuating that Kate was lying about checking inside the wardrobe because she couldn't access it due to the position of the cots as shown in the photo?
I don't think for one minute an abductor went in or out of that window, with or without Madeleine. The window & shutters were opened from the inside for another purpose.

What a sensible post Misty 

[Brietta]

I'm not claiming they tampered with the crime scene. I am merely saying that many people were in & out of that room before those photos were taken by CSI. The shutters were tested. Kate closed the window. How on earth you can categorically state that everything in that photo is eactly as Kate found it is silly - the cots have been stripped for starters. Or are you merely insinuating that Kate was lying about checking inside the wardrobe because she couldn't access it due to the position of the cots as shown in the photo?
I don't think for one minute an abductor went in or out of that window, with or without Madeleine. The window & shutters were opened from the inside for another purpose.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2718836/Moment-gormless-burglar-stares-open-mouthed-CCTV-camera-stealing-try-cover-tracks-footage-downloaded.html

If you watch the video attached to the above link you will see that the first thing the burglar did on entering the room was to secure an exit.  He did this by unlocking the door and checking it opened.

I suggest the open window and raised shutter in 5a was an emergency exit strategy.

[pathfinder73]

What nonsense. He had 2 doors to use if he existed. But he thought no I'll waste time and open noisy shutters  8-)(--)

[Eleanor]

What nonsense. He had 2 doors to use if he existed. But he thought no I'll waste time and open noisy shutters  8-)(--)

The above post by Brietta, might just be speculation, but it isn't nonsense.

[Brietta]

For the purposes of this discussion, it does not really matter how he got in.

How he was getting out was his concern, and I think he walked out via the front door with Madeleine.

However had someone returned to the apartment while he was still inside he couldn't have done that without a confrontation ... therefore he ensured an escape route via the open window. 

Really quite simple, and if you had looked at the link I provided you would have seen a burglar doing just that.

Just a point ~ in my opinion you totally devalue any contribution you make by continual reference to pyjamas and Madeleine's father ~

[misty]

I believe that Madeleine will not be found, dead or alive, until someone talks. I base that on the fact that a book deal was signed, safe in the knowledge that she would not turn up, dead or alive.
The dogs' evidence was significant on 2 counts:-
1) It indicated the likelihood she was dead.
2) It provided part of the circumstancial evidence which was being gathered to use in a case against the       parents, which would "solve" the crime, restore reputations & calm tourists anxieties.
 All in all, quite a few Brownie points to be won and a lot of fame & good fortune for a few individuals. That is, until the walls came crashing down in a UK lab.....

[slartibartfast]

I believe that Madeleine will not be found, dead or alive, until someone talks. I base that on the fact that a book deal was signed, safe in the knowledge that she would not turn up, dead or alive.
The dogs' evidence was significant on 2 counts:-
1) It indicated the likelihood she was dead.
2) It provided part of the circumstancial evidence which was being gathered to use in a case against the       parents, which would "solve" the crime, restore reputations & calm tourists anxieties.
 All in all, quite a few Brownie points to be won and a lot of fame & good fortune for a few individuals. That is, until the walls came crashing down in a UK lab.....

I agree with until the last sentence, the forensics being inconclusive was not the equivalent of the walls crashing down. It didn't disprove the theory.

[misty]

Now, here are another set of discrepancies:_

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HAYLEY-CRAWFORD.htm
 When asked, she states that she does now know the parents nor Madeleine as they did not frequent the adult pool bar.
When asked, the witness clarifies that on the day of Madeleine’s disappearance (03 May 2007) she was with her boyfriend at her home, situated in Lagos, saying that he, Nuno Conceicao, is also an Ocean Club employee, carrying out various maintenance functions in the resort But she says that, for this reason, her boyfriend is in permanent service, in other words that even when he has a day off he can be contacted in case it is necessary to carry out any type of maintenance service in any apartment or other installations of the tourist resort in question. In this way she explains that on the day in question (03.05.07) at around 20h30, her boyfriend was called as there was a problem with a lock in an apartment situated in the northern part of the resort, close to the Millennium restaurant and she had accompanied her boyfriend in her car from her home in Lagos to the apartment in question.
For this purpose, the witness and her boyfriend travelled in her car, a Peugeot model 106, metallic grey in colour, along various roads of the resort, having taken the road adjacent to the pool and Tapas restaurant area, passing by the apartment where Madeleine and her family were staying, according to what she was subsequently informed about the location.
When questioned, the witness states that when she travelled along the roads in question, which make up the resort, and principally those which she later learnt were adjacent to the apartment where Madeleine was staying and disappeared from, close to the Tapas restaurant, which she did at about 21H00, (03 May, 2007) the witness states that she saw no vehicle, person or other situation that she considered suspicious that could be directly or indirectly related to the facts being investigated.
When asked, the witness states that after her boyfriend had collected a service vehicle, from the Ocean Club reception, which took place at about 21H00, they both went to her home, but in separate vehicles, arriving at about 21H15.
The witness states that she was off work on last Wednesday and Thursday, as was her boyfriend.
At about 22H30, her boyfriend received another telephone call from a colleague, asking for a flashlight, as a female child had disappeared, to which he responded that he did not have one, both remaining at the witness’s home until the next day.
She only became aware of the events on Friday morning when she returned to work
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Compare Hayley's statement to her boyfriends's - no mention of obtaining a service vehicle and driving home separately

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NLNO-CONCEIGAO.htm

That he comes to the process as a witness and states:
- That he is a functionary of the Ocean Club for about eight years and exercises his functions in the maintenance area. He is responsible for fulfilling maintenance requests on all the buildings related to the resort.
- That he works daily from 09H00 to 18H00, with weekly breaks on Wednesday and Thursday. Besides his routine hours, he also may be called at any time to carry out maintenance/repairs.
- That the majority of people who stay at the resort are foreigners, mainly English.
- Questioned, he states that, last Thursday, he was off duty but was called by the reception and went to the resort around 020H30 to open a door that had problems. After completing the work for which he was called, which took him about 15 minutes, he left for his residence, and was again contacted, at around 22H15 to ask him if there were torch/flash lights that could be used to help look for a child that had gone missing. The deponent responded that there weren't any and was not called again that night.
- When he arrived the next morning, around 07H10, he encountered many people and GNR/police close to block 5 along with some foreigners, who, at the time, he associated with the disappearance of the child he had heard about the night before. He headed toward his place of work and that morning carried out his functions which included the cleaning of the pools next to the Tapas restaurant. He did not notice anything out of the ordinary.
- During the day he learnt more via his colleagues of the story of the missing child.
- Questioned, he states that he never came across a circumstance that made him pay particular attention to this family, not with the children or before the disappearance.
- Questioned, he states that he does not remember having seen Madeleine's face before her photograph was released in the media and which he helped distribute to the apartments after her disappearance.
- He states that the break-ins to the apartments are common, especially
for burglary purposes, and that some are the result of clients leaving their doors open.
- Questioned, he states that according to what he remembers, he did not observe any abnormal movements by any individual that would indicate s/he was preparing to commit a criminal act.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then compare to Susan Owen's testimony that Hayley (I can find no other "Hayley" listed as an OC employee but stand to be corrected)
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SUSAN-OWEN.htm

*snip*
That on the May 03, 2007, at around 22H45, she was in the bar known as ?Mirage? together with her colleagues, whose names are Emma, Shinead, Najoua Hayley and Stacy, which is situated close to the perimeter of the aforementioned resort. After returning from the bathroom, she was informed by her colleague Hayley that a child, of about 3 years of age, and whom was staying at the Ocean Club, had disappeared;
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, where was Hayley that night? Was she in the bar or at home? Did Nuno take a service vehicle from OC - and if so - what for & why fail to mention it? How many "service vehicles" does OC have?
There are more secrets & clandestine goings-on in Luz than in the village of Midsommer. Discuss.

[Anna]

Now, here are another set of discrepancies:_

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HAYLEY-CRAWFORD.htm
 When asked, she states that she does now know the parents nor Madeleine as they did not frequent the adult pool bar.
When asked, the witness clarifies that on the day of Madeleine’s disappearance (03 May 2007) she was with her boyfriend at her home, situated in Lagos, saying that he, Nuno Conceicao, is also an Ocean Club employee, carrying out various maintenance functions in the resort But she says that, for this reason, her boyfriend is in permanent service, in other words that even when he has a day off he can be contacted in case it is necessary to carry out any type of maintenance service in any apartment or other installations of the tourist resort in question. In this way she explains that on the day in question (03.05.07) at around 20h30, her boyfriend was called as there was a problem with a lock in an apartment situated in the northern part of the resort, close to the Millennium restaurant and she had accompanied her boyfriend in her car from her home in Lagos to the apartment in question.
For this purpose, the witness and her boyfriend travelled in her car, a Peugeot model 106, metallic grey in colour, along various roads of the resort, having taken the road adjacent to the pool and Tapas restaurant area, passing by the apartment where Madeleine and her family were staying, according to what she was subsequently informed about the location.
When questioned, the witness states that when she travelled along the roads in question, which make up the resort, and principally those which she later learnt were adjacent to the apartment where Madeleine was staying and disappeared from, close to the Tapas restaurant, which she did at about 21H00, (03 May, 2007) the witness states that she saw no vehicle, person or other situation that she considered suspicious that could be directly or indirectly related to the facts being investigated.
When asked, the witness states that after her boyfriend had collected a service vehicle, from the Ocean Club reception, which took place at about 21H00, they both went to her home, but in separate vehicles, arriving at about 21H15.
The witness states that she was off work on last Wednesday and Thursday, as was her boyfriend.
At about 22H30, her boyfriend received another telephone call from a colleague, asking for a flashlight, as a female child had disappeared, to which he responded that he did not have one, both remaining at the witness’s home until the next day.
She only became aware of the events on Friday morning when she returned to work
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Compare Hayley's statement to her boyfriends's - no mention of obtaining a service vehicle and driving home separately

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NLNO-CONCEIGAO.htm

That he comes to the process as a witness and states:
- That he is a functionary of the Ocean Club for about eight years and exercises his functions in the maintenance area. He is responsible for fulfilling maintenance requests on all the buildings related to the resort.
- That he works daily from 09H00 to 18H00, with weekly breaks on Wednesday and Thursday. Besides his routine hours, he also may be called at any time to carry out maintenance/repairs.
- That the majority of people who stay at the resort are foreigners, mainly English.
- Questioned, he states that, last Thursday, he was off duty but was called by the reception and went to the resort around 020H30 to open a door that had problems. After completing the work for which he was called, which took him about 15 minutes, he left for his residence, and was again contacted, at around 22H15 to ask him if there were torch/flash lights that could be used to help look for a child that had gone missing. The deponent responded that there weren't any and was not called again that night.
- When he arrived the next morning, around 07H10, he encountered many people and GNR/police close to block 5 along with some foreigners, who, at the time, he associated with the disappearance of the child he had heard about the night before. He headed toward his place of work and that morning carried out his functions which included the cleaning of the pools next to the Tapas restaurant. He did not notice anything out of the ordinary.
- During the day he learnt more via his colleagues of the story of the missing child.
- Questioned, he states that he never came across a circumstance that made him pay particular attention to this family, not with the children or before the disappearance.
- Questioned, he states that he does not remember having seen Madeleine's face before her photograph was released in the media and which he helped distribute to the apartments after her disappearance.
- He states that the break-ins to the apartments are common, especially
for burglary purposes, and that some are the result of clients leaving their doors open.
- Questioned, he states that according to what he remembers, he did not observe any abnormal movements by any individual that would indicate s/he was preparing to commit a criminal act.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then compare to Susan Owen's testimony that Hayley (I can find no other "Hayley" listed as an OC employee but stand to be corrected)
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SUSAN-OWEN.htm

*snip*
That on the May 03, 2007, at around 22H45, she was in the bar known as ?Mirage? together with her colleagues, whose names are Emma, Shinead, Najoua Hayley and Stacy, which is situated close to the perimeter of the aforementioned resort. After returning from the bathroom, she was informed by her colleague Hayley that a child, of about 3 years of age, and whom was staying at the Ocean Club, had disappeared;
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, where was Hayley that night? Was she in the bar or at home? Did Nuno take a service vehicle from OC - and if so - what for & why fail to mention it? How many "service vehicles" does OC have?
There are more secrets & clandestine goings-on in Luz than in the village of Midsommer. Discuss.

Yes I had already seen the discrepancies in Hayley and boyfriend statement (which should be on here) I did not however see the statement of her colleague who was at the Bar.................Well spotted

[misty]

Yes I had already seen the discrepancies in Hayley and boyfriend statement (which should be on here) I did not however see the statement of her colleague who was at the Bar.................Well spotted

Sorry if I have duplicated and it has been discussed before - I'm pretty new here & it's quite hard finding your way around (especially when posts are moved or deleted).
I was re-reading all the OC employees' statements on another forum last night & found it unbelieveable just how many RM had translated, and how many nannies/staff weren't asked to account for their movements on that fateful night.

[pegasus]

...So, where was Hayley that night? Was she in the bar or at home? Did Nuno take a service vehicle from OC - and if so - what for & why fail to mention it? How many "service vehicles" does OC have?
There are more secrets & clandestine goings-on in Luz than in the village of Midsommer. Discuss.

There were 2 Hayleys. See Vol 4 page 852

[Anna]

Sorry if I have duplicated and it has been discussed before - I'm pretty new here & it's quite hard finding your way around (especially when posts are moved or deleted).
I was re-reading all the OC employees' statements on another forum last night & found it unbelieveable just how many RM had translated, and how many nannies/staff weren't asked to account for their movements on that fateful night.

No need to be sorry for anything, Misty. I only left the links to the statements and never had a reply. I never did see the other statement of her colleague . Well researched