Strange Witness Statements

[misty]

So I am not alone in looking at absolutely every physical space, rather than just the obvious ones.
BTW I am looking at apartment (not villa), where see in video physical space between the end of the bath and the south wall of bathroom, this space is enclosed.
However Eddie searches apartment bathroom and does not signal, which rules it out.

Although if you were a really clever murderer, you would have put the corpse inside half a dozen bin bags, tied tightly at the top before removing the bath panel..........but surely, surely, the CSI would have pulled the place apart....wouldn't they???

[pegasus]

Although if you were a really clever murderer, you would have put the corpse inside half a dozen bin bags, tied tightly at the top before removing the bath panel..........but surely, surely, the CSI would have pulled the place apart....wouldn't they???

Looking at 3rd/4th May:
GNR search of apartment was far from complete IMO.
PJ did not search the apartment at all IMO, they thinking no need as GNR already had.
Forensics IMO just looked for hairs fingerprints etc and in selected areas of apartment only.

[misty]

Looking at 3rd/4th May:
GNR search of apartment was far from complete IMO.
PJ did not search the apartment at all IMO, they thinking no need as GNR already had.
Forensics IMO just looked for hairs fingerprints etc and in selected areas of apartment only.

Amaral had been in the drugs squad. If there was one area he should have been an expert in, it was searching premises for items cleverly concealed. By his own admission, he suspected the parents straight away. Why would he fail to follow his natural instinct & order his officers to delve into every nook & cranny?

[pegasus]

Amaral had been in the drugs squad. If there was one area he should have been an expert in, it was searching premises for items cleverly concealed. By his own admission, he suspected the parents straight away. Why would he fail to follow his natural instinct & order his officers to delve into every nook & cranny?

I am looking at what actually did happen, long before Mr Amaral was informed.

The search of the apartment by police (GNR and PJ combined) was limited to that of the first pair of GNR officers.
This is proven easily by reading the statement of the 3rd GNR officer to arrive, the Lagos GNR commander, about 30 minutes later, who
 "did not enter the apartment, as it had already been searched, but instead remained outside".
(which is a strange witness statement in itself)

So already, more than an hour before the PJ arrived, based on just one rudimentary and incomplete search by the first pair of GNR officers, it was assumed that the child was definitely not in the apartment and there was no point searching in there further.

[pegasus]

... if you don't believe that parents and police can search a residence and miss a child completely, search for Abbotskerswell. Or Penlan. Or Prince George (solved by a dog called Astro). And there are many more cases like that.

[misty]

... if you don't believe that parents and police can search a residence and miss a child completely, search for Abbotskerswell. And there are many more cases like that.

I'm not doubting your word for one minute - I recall reading the very same thing a few years ago but not the name of the child. Sleeping children tend to wake up, though, whereas dead children don't.
As you said, Madeleine wasn't killed & concealed in 5a that night. She was taken - I still maintain my own opinion of by whom & why - but I, like everyone else, must hope that the Met uncover the truth.

[pegasus]

I'm not doubting your word for one minute - I recall reading the very same thing a few years ago but not the name of the child. Sleeping children tend to wake up, though, whereas dead children don't.
As you said, Madeleine wasn't killed & concealed in 5a that night. She was taken - I still maintain my own opinion of by whom & why - but I, like everyone else, must hope that the Met uncover the truth.

I think certainly when the GNR arrived no-one had found or concealed anything.
And I think the GNR search inside was not nearly thorough enough - they could easily have missed something.

[Brietta]

I think certainly when the GNR arrived no-one had found or concealed anything.
And I think the GNR search inside was not nearly thorough enough - they could easily have missed something.

The amount of dog hairs found suggests the GNR dogs were in the apartment for some time after their arrival on the 4th; IMO had there been a dead body secreted somewhere, these sniffer dogs would have indicated such.
If the GNR officers had missed something I doubt their dogs would.   

[pegasus]

The amount of dog hairs found suggests the GNR dogs were in the apartment for some time after their arrival on the 4th; IMO had there been a dead body secreted somewhere, these sniffer dogs would have indicated such.
If the GNR officers had missed something I doubt their dogs would.   

A good point.
Did forensics on 4th May find dog hairs inside the apartment?
If so, in which rooms?
Or was it early Aug 2007 when forensics found dog hairs? (if so they would be Eddie's and Keela's)

[Carana]

A good point.
Did forensics on 4th May find dog hairs inside the apartment?
If so, in which rooms?
Or was it early Aug 2007 when forensics found dog hairs? (if so they would be Eddie's and Keela's)

The non-human hairs were from the initial sweep in 5A.

Relating to Apartment no. 5-A

- Envelope No. 1 - "recovered from the floor at the entrance to the children's bedroom" 25 hairs with root; 4 hairs only stem; 3 hairs non-human.

- Envelope No. 2 - "recovered from the floor next to the bed from which the child disappeared" 3 hairs with root; 25 hairs only stem.

- Envelope No. 3 - "recovered from the top of the bed from which the child disappeared" 2 hairs with root; 2 hairs only stem.

- Envelope No. 4 - " recovered from the floor next to the bed that was next to the window in the children's bedroom" ll hairs with root; 4 hairs only stem.

- Envelope no. 6 - "recovered from the floor of the lounge" 26 hairs with root; 4 hairs only stem; l hair non-human.

- Envelope no. 7 - "recovered from the entrance hall at the front door of the apartment" 44 hairs with root; 8 hairs only stem; 6 hairs non-human.

FIRST INML REPORT 9 JULY 2007

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm

2 other non-human hairs appear in the report, but these seem to be from the Volkswagen.

[pegasus]

@Carana. Thanks. No mention of any search for hairs in the adult bedroom. Also I find in all the files no mention of GNR dogs being used to search inside the apartment. None of the GNR dog handlers mention using their dogs to specifically search inside 5A.
I accept that if GNR dogs had done a full search inside every room in the apartment, they would have found something if something was there. As in this other case, where an ordinary police dog did find a missing child inside the residence (where parents and human police had searched but found nothing). Police had even moved the chest of drawers to look behind it, totally oblivious to the fact that the boy was actually inside the chest of drawers while they moved it.  http://princegeorge.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=775&languageId=1&contentId=32552
The dog Astro only found the boy because his handler took him into the room to search. But I see no sign whatsoever that any GNR dog was ever taken into the adult bedroom, and the GNR dog can't find something unless it is allowed into the room.

[Brietta]

A good point.
Did forensics on 4th May find dog hairs inside the apartment?
If so, in which rooms?
Or was it early Aug 2007 when forensics found dog hairs? (if so they would be Eddie's and Keela's)

It appears that the dogs had a good prowl around in the in the apartment and would at the least have been curious about anything unusual; that they had not been trained to alert to cadaver odour does not mean that they could not smell it as all dogs use their noses.
I think if Madeleine had been in the apartment the GNR dogs would have found her even if by default.

 - Snipped - Then began the detailed observation of the apartment interior ending with the search and recovery of forensic trace material relevant to the present examination.

Initially the search began for latent shoe-prints it being verified that dozens existed on the floor, in the various rooms of the apartment, which invalidated the attempt of identifying those of the perpetrator.

Also, innumerable tracks [footprints] that were taken to be canine in origin mixed with red- and white-coloured chemical products, as used to see fingerprints, and an enormous quantity of hairs probably of animal (dog) origin that made it difficult to find possible traces, especially in the bedroom of two single beds and two children's cots from where the minor disappeared, and next to the aluminium window/door leading from inside the living room to the exterior area behind the apartment.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

[Anna]

Subsequently an attempt was made to reconstruct the route taken by Madeleine by giving the dogs a blanket/towel used by her, but the results were not significant, given that the dogs are more trained for use in rural areas rather than urban or populated areas, the existence of more odours in the air making it impossible for the tracker dog to identify/locate the “target smell”.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post245356.html#p245356

[Luz]

The dogs were used to recover victims from earthquakes, floodings,...not exactly "rural" dogs. The fact that they missed the scent says a lot to what happened to that little kiddo. She must have been wrapped inside the apart before taken out.

[Brietta]

The dogs were used to recover victims from earthquakes, floodings,...not exactly "rural" dogs. The fact that they missed the scent says a lot to what happened to that little kiddo. She must have been wrapped inside the apart before taken out.

Wrapped in what exactly?

From the link Anna provided but you did not bother to read - saying exactly that they were trained for work in a "rural" environment.  I think it would be safe to say they were "rural dogs.

 -Snip - Subsequently an attempt was made to reconstruct the route taken by Madeleine by giving the dogs a blanket/towel used by her, but the results were not significant, given that the dogs are more trained for use in rural areas rather than urban or populated areas, the existence of more odours in the air making it impossible for the tracker dog to identify/locate the “target smell”.