Author Topic: Strange Witness Statements  (Read 591688 times)

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Offline pegasus

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #660 on: October 02, 2014, 06:51:11 PM »
Here is the map drawn by the Alvor witnesses showing location where flatbed truck stopped and man got out carrying child.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/ap/A1_5/apenso5_vol_1_Page135.jpg

And here (the slip road at centre of this map) is the location of the flatbed truck on a zoom-able map.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Club+Alvorferias/@37.1287773,-8.5837186,21z

« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 12:04:36 AM by John »

Offline pegasus

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #661 on: October 02, 2014, 07:15:47 PM »
The info I posted is directly linked to the McCluskeys' statements in the files and specifically refers to "Ukranian couple ruled out". Why would it be there if there was no connection?
IMO there is no connection in the actual files between the Leca De Balio ukranian couple and the Alvor sighting.
The identification of the ukranian couple seen in Alvor by the Mccluskeys is given in the handwritten note on this page http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/ap/A1_5/apenso5_vol_1_Page127.jpg. They lived in Alvor and their daughter went to nursery in Portimao, and his flatbed truck registration matched that noted by the witnesses.

Online misty

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #662 on: October 03, 2014, 02:54:18 AM »
IMO there is no connection in the actual files between the Leca De Balio ukranian couple and the Alvor sighting.
The identification of the ukranian couple seen in Alvor by the Mccluskeys is given in the handwritten note on this page http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/ap/A1_5/apenso5_vol_1_Page127.jpg. They lived in Alvor and their daughter went to nursery in Portimao, and his flatbed truck registration matched that noted by the witnesses.

I agree with everything you have posted. So, why the attempt to mislead the readers by specifically linking 2 different Ukrainian couples?

Offline pegasus

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #663 on: October 03, 2014, 04:25:14 AM »
I agree with everything you have posted. So, why the attempt to mislead the readers by specifically linking 2 different Ukrainian couples?
I think in the actual files there is no link between them. The mccannpjfiles site sort of associates them by referring to both on one of their pages, the site is just trying to be helpful IMO.
What I find remarkable about the Alvor sighting is that the witnesses identified GM by carrying style equalling the carrying style at East Midlands Airport , and yet it turned out it was not him at all. An indicator that perhaps MSmith's almost identical identification by carrying style may be equally mistaken JIMO.

Online misty

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #664 on: October 04, 2014, 01:51:23 AM »
I think in the actual files there is no link between them. The mccannpjfiles site sort of associates them by referring to both on one of their pages, the site is just trying to be helpful IMO.
What I find remarkable about the Alvor sighting is that the witnesses identified GM by carrying style equalling the carrying style at East Midlands Airport , and yet it turned out it was not him at all. An indicator that perhaps MSmith's almost identical identification by carrying style may be equally mistaken JIMO.

The witness actually identified Kate as being the woman in Alvor, not having seen the man from the front at all. Much emphasis has been placed on 2 witnesses commenting on Gerry's child-carrying style but it was really one ID'ing Gerry & another ID'ing Kate. The Alvor witness unfortunately had never been told that his suspects had been identified & cleared.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm#a5v1p131

In my original statement I described a distressed female who ran down a road towards a white van I had described.

Having viewed recent news footage of Mrs McCann I am now almost certain that she is the female I described as being in a distressed state. I say this because of her slight build, high cheekbones and her eyes and hairstyle.

I've agonised for days over whether or not to contact the police about this because it is a terrible thing to accuse somebody of. It had just not crossed my mind that the child?s parents could in some way be involved in her disappearance.

I have watched a good deal of news coverage about the McCanns over the past week or so. Another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children. The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.

Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me, it was the particular way Mr. McCann held the child that made me think. He held the child over his left shoulder with his left arm supporting the child?s weight.
===============================================================================
I remember googling info on this witness and there was family stuff reported in local newspapers & put on the net a few years back. All that has now vanished and I can find no evidence of the incident which occurred in official records. More than a few times, I have wondered just how much of the information we source via the net is accurate & how much is planted/removed to suit an agenda.

Offline pegasus

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #665 on: October 04, 2014, 02:30:09 AM »
@Misty yes seems the PJ had identified and ruled out the Ukranian couple in Alvor before the september witness statement.
BTW the local newspaper report is still at http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/local/all-news/wear-couple-told-police-we-saw-maddie-1-1152843

Online misty

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #666 on: October 04, 2014, 02:41:41 AM »
@Misty yes seems the PJ had identified and ruled out the Ukranian couple in Alvor before the september witness statement.
BTW the local newspaper report is still at http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/local/all-news/wear-couple-told-police-we-saw-maddie-1-1152843

Thanks, but that is not the one I was referring to. It was about the family, not the McCann case, and I just find it strange that the report is no longer there as I can see no valid reason for it to have been removed unless it was totally untrue. Probably all irrelevant - it's just the Irish names, etc......

Offline Brietta

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #667 on: October 04, 2014, 12:21:16 PM »
The witness actually identified Kate as being the woman in Alvor, not having seen the man from the front at all. Much emphasis has been placed on 2 witnesses commenting on Gerry's child-carrying style but it was really one ID'ing Gerry & another ID'ing Kate. The Alvor witness unfortunately had never been told that his suspects had been identified & cleared.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm#a5v1p131

In my original statement I described a distressed female who ran down a road towards a white van I had described.

Having viewed recent news footage of Mrs McCann I am now almost certain that she is the female I described as being in a distressed state. I say this because of her slight build, high cheekbones and her eyes and hairstyle.

I've agonised for days over whether or not to contact the police about this because it is a terrible thing to accuse somebody of. It had just not crossed my mind that the child?s parents could in some way be involved in her disappearance.

I have watched a good deal of news coverage about the McCanns over the past week or so. Another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children. The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.

Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me, it was the particular way Mr. McCann held the child that made me think. He held the child over his left shoulder with his left arm supporting the child?s weight.
===============================================================================
I remember googling info on this witness and there was family stuff reported in local newspapers & put on the net a few years back. All that has now vanished and I can find no evidence of the incident which occurred in official records. More than a few times, I have wondered just how much of the information we source via the net is accurate & how much is planted/removed to suit an agenda.

I don’t know if it is exclusive to this case, but I have often followed links which no longer exist; people have stated they started to down load information to keep a record because of this. 

I think the maxim is that nothing on the internet can be trusted and information has to be sourced and collated from many different sources – and what ordinary person has the time or the resources to do that?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 01:52:19 PM by Mr Moderator »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline jassi

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #668 on: October 26, 2014, 02:51:34 PM »
I can understand from watching that and hearing other expert opinions how many elements of the McCann behaviour fit the profiling. Did the McCanns court publicity of their own volition?
Also, I presume there was actual forensic evidence to substantiate the guilt of the American killers?

As I recall, they had to be dragged, screaming and shouting, in front of cameras and microphones and into television studios.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #669 on: October 26, 2014, 07:04:35 PM »
Creche employee statement excerpts:

That on 3rd May at about 22.05 she was working at the Mini Club, at the "dinner time period" together with colleagues Charlotte and Amy, when a female individual arrived, whose name she does not know, just that she was the mother of a child there (belonging to Toddlers 2), being a guest who was staying at the resort and who left at the end of the week, who told her that a girl called "Maddie" has disappeared, and that the girl's parents needed help in looking for her.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JACQUELINE_WILLIAMS.htm

relative to the facts of the investigation the witness clarifies that in her daily schedule mentioned she only, on one occasion, had contact with Madeleine McCann, for about 30 minutes 'who was treated as Maddie' in that she had to substitute for her colleague, who, at that time, was responsible for the group whose name is Emma, as she had to go to the Tapas to take care of the refreshments of Madeleine's group. For this, the deponent had the charge of accompanying that group towards the beach until the MiniClub where they stayed for a few minutes, and from where they left for the restaurant, mentioned above, in order to have dinner. She clarifies that when Madeleine ate her food, her parents were close and accompanied her;

Questioned, she states that the minor in questions appeared to her a calm child, happy, but quiet. States that Maddie was a very pretty child, notwithstanding, she did not stick out for this fact. However, she furthers that the same child, from what she saw, was a child who did stick out, precisely as she was calmer and shier that the others;

That on the 03 of May, 200, at around 22h30, after having left the apartment where she is living, close to the establishment mentioned, together with two more colleagues, also residents there, whose name are Leanne and Sarah, she found her colleague Amy. That during their discussion she was informed that Madeleine McCann had disappeared and that they were looking for her. For this reason, together with her colleagues, they also began searching for Madeleine McCann;

It was about one week ago, on a date for which she cannot be precise, while she was accompanied by her friend Leanne, and going in the direction of her residence, on a street located close to the building where she lives, when they were cornered by an individual who passed by them, very slowly, at the wheel of a vehicle of make and model she did not know but the time but it did not seem recent. At passing, the individual invited them for a beer, to which they quickly declined. She adds that she did not pay the individual much attention, so that he would not continue to bother them, but this fact only allowed her to retain his physical characteristics' he had short, black hair. Urged, she states if she was confronted by this person or his photograph, she would not be capable of identifying him. That she did not observe any other characteristics signs of the individual like the vehicle that he drove. A few days later, in conversation with her colleagues, Leanne, Cai and Rhiannon she was told that an individual in a white commercial vehicle, had cornered them. That in none of these situations was it possible for Leanne to capture the license plate of the commercial vehicle mentioned above. Questioned, she states that she saw never saw the above referenced individual again;
. Questioned, the deponent states that beyond this situation, on another occasion, an event caught her attention. An individual of the male sex, in Praia da Luz, next to a caf' whose name she does not know, was playing a guitar until the day of the facts, now under investigation. on the night Maddie disappeared and while she was involved with a group searching, mentioned prior, they encountered a vehicle, whose make and model she does not know, of while colour, commercial, parked on top of a hill, where, she cannot identify. At this point, some of the group elements banged on the window of the vehicle and the back doors and saw the person who habitually played the guitar on the beach. He was covered with blankets, reading a book and drinking a beer, with the help of a flashlight. Questioned, they did were not able to observe in detail the interior of the vehicle. She add that the individual was asked whether he had seen a minor of about four years of age and the same responded, jocularly, that on that night, no one knocked on the doors of his vehicle;

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KIRSTY-MARYAN.htm

At 21.00 - 21.30 he would go to a camping site in his vehicle and spend the night there.

When asked to provide more precise detail about 3 rd May, the day on which Madeleine disappeared, he clarifies that the day was absolutely similar to the others, he has difficulty in providing more detail.

When asked if he had music classes that day, he replied that he did, from 16.45 to 17.45 with the son of ***** ***** resident in **** ****, Vila da Luz, and that the lesson took place at her house. From 18.15 - 19.15 he gave a lesson to his dentist's son.

When asked to try to remember where he had gone after the music classes, he says that at about 19.15 he went to drink a beer at the Jardim restaurant and after this, at about 20.00 he went to fetch his dinner from a place he cannot remember, being certain that he had his meal at the usual place (parking area near to the beach).

At about 21.00 he went to sleep in the usual place.

When asked whether he had been seen by anyone whilst he was eating or when he went to the place where he slept, he replied that it might well be possible but that he frankly does not remember.

When asked how he found out about the disappearance, he mentioned that at about 01.00 of 4th May when he was asleep at the usual place (camping site near the beach), he noticed flashing blue lights, immediately presuming that they came from a police car. At about 01.30 he was approached by OC staff, telling him that at about 22.00 the girl in question had disappeared from the resort.

He remembers that at about 07.30 on 4th May he was approached at the same site by GNR officers who carried out a search of his vehicle, but did not find anything unusual.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BARRINGTON_NORTON.htm

With relation to the facts being investigated, she says that she only had one brief contact, a few seconds with Madeleine - whom they called Madie (sic), when she passed by her, having eaten at the table, where she was.

When questioned, she replies that the little girl was discreet and shy. She says that she was a very pretty girl, however she did not stand out because of this.

On 3rd May 2007 at about 23.30, when she was at her apartment, with Cat, who also lives there, she was told by Leanne that Maddie had disappeared and that nobody had been able to find her.

She quickly got dressed and went out to join a group of staff who were searching the resort and P d L without success.

She participated in the search with other OC colleagues and other individuals (tourists, apartment owners from the resort).

When questioned she says that she searched the OC until about 04.00 on 4th May with negative results. In the morning, at about 08.30, the searches resumed and she participated in the searches in the resort.When questioned she says that she searched the OC until about 04.00 on 4th May with negative results. In the morning, at about 08.30, the searches resumed and she participated in the searches in the resort.

When questioned she says that she heard from her colleagues about the Portuguese individual who contacted them and invited them for a beer, but knows no details about this.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LYNNE_FRETTER.htm

She indicates that on May 3rd 2007, at around 10.20pm, she was informed by her colleague Amy T. that Madeleine McCann had disappeared. At that, she immediately launched the "missing child" procedure. This procedure consists of dividing the site into several areas, which are allocated to various of the company's employees to start searching for the missing child. To that effect, the informant explains that, around 10.25pm, the date indicated, the said procedure was begun, dividing the whole site into three distinct areas, namely the north zone, the central zone (including the area of the company) and all the roads surrounding the company and which go as far as the beach. Five of the company's employees were mobilised to coordinate the searches, helped by various people ( other employees, tourists and residents)

Questioned by us, the informant indicated that the searches by members of the OCEAN CLUB ended at around 4am on the morning of May 4th, without result.

To our question, the informant stated that at the time she was informed of Madeleine McCann's disappearance, she was alone in her residence and that she immediately went out and initiated the procedure described above.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LYNSAY-JAYNE.htm

That on the May 03, 2007, at around 22H45, she was in the bar known as ?Mirage? together with her colleagues, whose names are Emma, Shinead, Najoua Hayley and Stacy, which is situated close to the perimeter of the aforementioned resort. After returning from the bathroom, she was informed by her colleague Hayley that a child, of about 3 years of age, and whom was staying at the Ocean Club, had disappeared;
. The deponent immediately, together with her colleagues, went to the area of a restaurant (Milenium) in the establishment in question near to the bar they were at and began searching for the missing child;
. That during the search, she realised, together with her colleagues of the Ocean Club, others (tourists/owners) were also participating in the search;
. Not knowing the precise time, she noticed that authorities had arrived, and were taking measures for this type of situations;
. Questioned, the deponent states that the searches carried out by elements of the Ocean Club terminated at around 04H00 the next day, 04 May, 2007, to negative results;
. That during the searches that were carried out, she was told that the missing child was named Madeleine McCann;

The day of the disappearance, 3rd of May, 2007, the deponent clarifies that she left work at around 18H00, having dined with her colleagues in the Tapas restaurant, leaving thereafter, around 18H30, to her residence with a colleague whose name she does not remember. She stayed at her residence until around 21H30 together with her colleagues Shinead and Emma, from where they left and headed to the aforementioned bar, the Mirage, also with Nathan, who joined them, and who had previously been on another floor, in the home of one of their friends;
. Questioned, the deponent states that she effected the route along the beach, having previously started on the street where the bar is located and not through the establishment, nor close to the McCann residence;
. Questioned, the deponent clarifies that she does not exactly know where Madeleines apartment was located, adding that she only took notice of the locale after the events unfolded, as a result of the media being camped outside the apartment;

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SUSAN-OWEN.htm

She did recognise the family, as she was responsible for the twins, children of the couple and siblings of Madeleine McCann;
Questioned, the deponent states that she did not notice anything abnormal in relationship between the children and the parents, when they came to pick up the twins, they seemed happy to see them;
She affirms that at around 22H45, a group of people entered the bar, looking for the child, and that is when she became aware that she had disappeared. It was at this point when she also began searching;
The question made, she affirms that guests can request ?Staff" services where children are watched between 19H30 and 23H30. Madeleine McCanns parents never requested this service even though it was free;

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SHINEAD-VINE.htm

Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pegasus

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #670 on: October 26, 2014, 09:59:12 PM »
@pathfinder
"parked on top of a hill, where, she cannot identify" = the wasteland hill which SY spent days searching.
"residence" = REscolaPrimeira
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 10:02:04 PM by pegasus »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #671 on: October 26, 2014, 10:05:39 PM »
Thanks Pegasus. Seems like all the creche staff were out searching until 4am. And some were back again searching at 8:30 am. Kate and Gerry were searching in the hours between and saw nobody. I suppose they were allowed a few hours sleep but no nobody was searching except us her parents.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 10:10:39 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline sadie

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #672 on: October 26, 2014, 11:38:28 PM »
Thanks Pegasus. Seems like all the creche staff were out searching until 4am. And some were back again searching at 8:30 am. Kate and Gerry were searching in the hours between and saw nobody. I suppose they were allowed a few hours sleep but no nobody was searching except us her parents.
The parents were tied up with the Police, despair, phone calls, trying to work things out and moving apartments.  They may well not have been aware that everyone was searching.

And, of course, they were desperate that everyone should be searching all the time.  They wre aware that they were on their own.  You would be too.  It is only natural.



You are making something of nothing Pathfinder.  Think of the reality of desperate parents.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #673 on: October 26, 2014, 11:42:06 PM »
The parents were tied up with the Police, despair, phone calls, trying to work things out and moving apartments.  They may well not have been aware that everyone was searching.

And, of course, they were desperate that everyone should be searching all the time.  They wre aware that they were on their own.  You would be too.  It is only natural.



You are making something of nothing Pathfinder.  Think of the reality of desperate parents.

They were aware by the time they released Madeleine in 2011. Blaming others but they won't blame their own actions.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Benice

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #674 on: October 26, 2014, 11:53:37 PM »
They were aware by the time they released Madeleine in 2011. Blaming others but they won't blame their own actions.

Why do you and others keep making that untrue claim?  The McCanns have said that it was because of their actions that an abductor was given the opportunity take their daughter and that they will carry the burden of guilt because of that for the rest of their lives.     How do you interpret that as.... 'they won't blame their own actions'? 
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal