Strange Witness Statements

[Anna]

I was referring to Ibodacrane who accepted what Debunker had said regarding the court quote, but maybe I put the link in wrong. I don't believe Ibodacrane was banned, but left of her own free will. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Perhaps this is where Faith misunderstood the post too.

Yep..... just checked and the link takes you to a post by Ibodacrane.

[Mr Gray]

I wonder if this was the fabled "Ace up the sleeve" we heard so much about. 

I can't find a copy of Lee Rainbow's Report (anyone seen it?) ... I presume it must have been in the "confidential" files, some of which were not released on the request of Leicestershire Police.

Therefore the only possible check we have are newspaper reports of the trial which quote only Dr Amaral's lawyer's interpretation of what was said ... so knowing that those closest to the victim are eliminated in the first instance it is extraordinary it took a criminal profiler to indicate what action should have been taken in policing terms right at the beginning of the investigation.

Lee Rainbow's report actually highlights another glaring omission in the conduct of Madeleine's McCann's case.


**snip**
Details of the confidential report emerged during the final day of a libel trial involving former Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral, who led the Madeleine investigation.

Amaral is trying to overturn a worldwide injunction banning the publication of his book Maddie: The Truth of the Lie. In it he claims Kate and Gerry were involved in Madeleine's death and staged her disappearance. His lawyer, Antonio Cabrita, told the court that Rainbow wrote: "It was Madeleine's father who was the last one to see her alive.

"The family is a lead that should be followed.

The contradictions in Gerald McCann's statements might lead us to suspect a homicide."

Cabrita added: "This report has never been published before but is part of the investigation. On June 1st 2007 British police had the theory that Madeleine could be dead and the family could be involved.

"It was British police who said they must consider not only abduction but homicide as well."

The NPIA provided a checklist of what should be done, advising the Portuguese police to include the McCanns in their inquiry and take new forensics at their holiday apartment in Praia da Luz.

Last night an NPIA spokesman said: "In disappearance cases it is common for the NPIA to advise investigating officers to consider the possibility of the involvement of family and close friends. The NPIA gave similar generic advice to the Portuguese police in the Madeleine McCann case."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mccanns-should-be-treated-as-suspects-brit-200689

I believe mark rainbow said what is in red but not what was in blue

[Anna]

I believe mark rainbow said what is in red but not what was in blue

Correct, I believe

What Lee Rainbow actually said....
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1163.msg32653#msg32653
http://justice4mccannfam.5forum.biz/t2450-what-lee-rainbow-actually-said

[pathfinder73]

Correct, I believe

What Lee Rainbow actually said....
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1163.msg32653#msg32653
http://justice4mccannfam.5forum.biz/t2450-what-lee-rainbow-actually-said

So you are saying this court report is fantasy land? You shouldn't keep on repeating that thread is the truth when you haven't read his full report!

Amaral is trying to overturn a worldwide injunction banning the publication of his book Maddie: The Truth of the Lie. In it he claims Kate and Gerry were involved in Maddie's death and staged her disappearance. His lawyer, Antonio Cabrita, told the court Rainbow wrote: "It was Madeleine's father who was the last one to see her alive.

"The family is a lead that should be followed. The contradictions in Gerald McCann's statements might lead us to suspect a homicide."

Cabrita added: "This report has never been published before but is part of the investigation.

On June 1st 2007 British police had the theory that Madeleine could be dead and the family could be involved.

"It was British police who said they must consider not only abduction but homicide as well."

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id308.html

[Anna]

So you are saying this court report is fantasy land? You shouldn't keep on repeating that thread is the truth when you haven't read his full report!

Amaral is trying to overturn a worldwide injunction banning the publication of his book Maddie: The Truth of the Lie. In it he claims Kate and Gerry were involved in Maddie's death and staged her disappearance. His lawyer, Antonio Cabrita, told the court Rainbow wrote: "It was Madeleine's father who was the last one to see her alive.

"The family is a lead that should be followed. The contradictions in Gerald McCann's statements might lead us to suspect a homicide."

Cabrita added: "This report has never been published before but is part of the investigation.

On June 1st 2007 British police had the theory that Madeleine could be dead and the family could be involved.

"It was British police who said they must consider not only abduction but homicide as well."

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id308.html

I said "I Believe" Pf and not that I know for definite. How much of what is spoken about on here, is known for definite.

 

[G-Unit]

Thought so  - Thanks Benice.

Just wanted to mention that Gerry McCann was  in possession of at least two PAYG mobiles which the PJ were not aware of.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

[DCI]

Just wanted to mention that Gerry McCann was  in possession of at least two PAYG mobiles which the PJ were not aware of.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

Yes you said last week.

If you read David Paynes' rogatory statement you will see that 2 brand new PAYG phones were delivered to him at the police station on 4th May 2007. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

His rambling explanation of why and how they got them seemed unconvincing to me and i wondered if they were delivered to them in order for someone to be able to contact them without the police knowing. What Carolyn Kish says upholds that. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CAROLYN-KISH.htm 

Gerry Mccann had access to three mobile phones during the first days after the disappearance of Madeleine, but whether any police were able to get records for the PAYG phones is anybodies guess if they didn't know they existed until 11th April 2008. Both the Mccanns appeared in an appeal on the BBC shown at 2pm on the 7th, but it could have been recorded earlier than that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kaoVqWaOQI

[pathfinder73]

01:26:10 Reply "Yeah, I mean err it may well have been SA gave us a contact of someone that was a friend of the family in Portugal who err could get us mobile phones because Kate and Gerry you know hadn't got any contact, you know way of contacting, their batteries were running out or something like that.

1485 "And who's SA''
 Reply "Err he is err my, Fiona's sister LW, that's her husband.'

01:04:02 1485 "And where were these phones, when did these phones arrive''
 Reply "Err when did we get the phones' When we were at the Police Station, err you know as, you know I just asked whether I could just pop downstairs there was someone who's brought us phones and they said yeah, so I quickly popped downstairs, got the phones, and took them back into the Police Station. Err I can't remember if there was any power in them when we opened them up but err so then that was, you know, so the phones were just, you know because we hadn't got any other, anything there, so.'
1485 "And what phones were they' Do you remember what sort of, what make they were''
 Reply "Err they were Samsung phones, err and I think they were Vodaphone SIM cards. Err the actual model, I can't tell you the Samsung phone but they were, something like the Samsung three hundred, something like that.'
1485 "Yeah, how many phones were there''
 Reply "There was, there was two err and we ended up, err again, we ended up keeping one and Kate and Gerry had one, I think we gave the second one to Kate and Gerry as well after a while but we were err you know because they'd got credit put on to them so we were just using those phones rather than run up the expense of our own phones.'
1485 "Yeah.'
 01:05:33 Reply "So err yeah.'
1485 "So the two phones, you've kept one and gave one to Kate and Gerry''
 Reply "Kate and Gerry yeah.'
1485 "And do you have the numbers of those phones in your phone''
 Reply "I don't, no, no.'
1485 "Where are these phones now''
 Reply "Err as far as I am aware that they, you know, remained in Portugal, again''
1485 "With whom''
 Reply "With Kate and Gerry.'
1485 "So Kate and Gerry took possession of that second phone which you had''
 Reply "Well, they certainly kept the first one, the second one, the second one, sorry, no I think that's rubbish. I think I, I may well have got the, I might have got the second phone. Actually I've got a sneaky feeling when I got home I tried the UK SIM card in it and it didn't work so I could well have got the second phone.'
1485 "So is it likely that this second phone is at your home address''
 Reply "Err that is a strong possibility.'
1485 "So two Samsung phones.'
 Reply "Yeah, yeah.'
1485 "One is, to your knowledge, still with Kate and Gerry.'
 Reply "Yeah.'
 1485 "The other one you may well have at your home address.'
 Reply "Yeah, yeah.'
1485 "Did you use the phones often''
 Reply "Not''
1485 "In Portugal''
 Reply "Not a great deal no, no, it was, it was, first of all you know we didn't have any numbers in them already and then with being a Portuguese phone you know it was just a bit more difficult so we, if we ever used them, I mean which wasn't often, we'd perhaps call Kate and Gerry using the Portuguese phone, but it wasn't a kind of religious oh we'll just use the, that Portuguese phone to err you know establish communication.'
1485 "Yeah.'
 01:07:23 Reply "Err you know and the other reason that we, we had the, one of the phones is because Fiona didn't have a phone either so you know, so it's like she had the use of the other phone as well.'
1485 "Right, so out of the two of you then, who predominantly used that phone''
 Reply "I'd say Fiona.'
1485 "Fiona''
 Reply "Yeah.'
1485 "And has it been used since it's been in the UK''
 Reply "No.'
1485 "Okay, okay.'
 Reply "And I'm just trying to think you know how much, you know the, the, I can't remember you know obviously we were there for four weeks after but when the actual credit ran out, because I remember the credit running out and not being able to actually put anymore on even though it's supposed to be quite straight forward but again, you know whether that was after, you know, three weeks of being out there or whatever I can't remember.'
1485 "Yeah, how many times do you think you topped it up then''
 Reply "I don't, I don't think we did, I don't think I did. I don't think I could work out how to do it to be honest.'
1485 "So when both of them arrived both of them had credit on them''
 Reply "They put, I think they put, I think err I think they put forty pound credit or forty euros, you know, which seemed to last a lot longer than the amount of credit we were (inaudible) we were using our own err mobile phones.'
 1485 "Just wait there a second I'll just (inaudible).'
 Reply "Okay.'
 01:08:40 DC MESSIAH leaves the interview room.
 01:09:00 DC MESSIAH re-enters the interview room.
1485 "All done.'
 Reply "Okay.'
1485 "The phone, is it likely that I could collect it when I take you home''
 Reply "I can certainly have a look for it and I can give you, I mean if you, if you wanted to have my other mobile phone with all the numbers in and you know if you can access text messages on that you're welcome to have that phone.'
1485 "Okay, do you know where you'd be able to put your hand on it if you''
 Reply "Err the Samsung one, again, there was a Vodaphone bag that was knocking around, and that would be where it is if err I can find it. Fiona might know.'
1485 "Okay, perhaps you could give her a call or something.'
 Reply "Yeah, yeah.'
1485 "Alright then, it's now sixteen forty on this date.'
 01:09:48 The interview ceased at 1640 hours when the tape recorder was switched off.
 SIGNATURE (Sgd)
 SLS

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

[Brietta]

01:26:10 Reply "Yeah, I mean err it may well have been SA gave us a contact of someone that was a friend of the family in Portugal who err could get us mobile phones because Kate and Gerry you know hadn't got any contact, you know way of contacting, their batteries were running out or something like that.

1485 "And who's SA''
 Reply "Err he is err my, Fiona's sister LW, that's her husband.'

01:04:02 1485 "And where were these phones, when did these phones arrive''
 Reply "Err when did we get the phones' When we were at the Police Station, err you know as, you know I just asked whether I could just pop downstairs there was someone who's brought us phones and they said yeah, so I quickly popped downstairs, got the phones, and took them back into the Police Station. Err I can't remember if there was any power in them when we opened them up but err so then that was, you know, so the phones were just, you know because we hadn't got any other, anything there, so.'
1485 "And what phones were they' Do you remember what sort of, what make they were''
 Reply "Err they were Samsung phones, err and I think they were Vodaphone SIM cards. Err the actual model, I can't tell you the Samsung phone but they were, something like the Samsung three hundred, something like that.'
1485 "Yeah, how many phones were there''
 Reply "There was, there was two err and we ended up, err again, we ended up keeping one and Kate and Gerry had one, I think we gave the second one to Kate and Gerry as well after a while but we were err you know because they'd got credit put on to them so we were just using those phones rather than run up the expense of our own phones.'
1485 "Yeah.'
 01:05:33 Reply "So err yeah.'
1485 "So the two phones, you've kept one and gave one to Kate and Gerry''
 Reply "Kate and Gerry yeah.'
1485 "And do you have the numbers of those phones in your phone''
 Reply "I don't, no, no.'
1485 "Where are these phones now''
 Reply "Err as far as I am aware that they, you know, remained in Portugal, again''
1485 "With whom''
 Reply "With Kate and Gerry.'
1485 "So Kate and Gerry took possession of that second phone which you had''
 Reply "Well, they certainly kept the first one, the second one, the second one, sorry, no I think that's rubbish. I think I, I may well have got the, I might have got the second phone. Actually I've got a sneaky feeling when I got home I tried the UK SIM card in it and it didn't work so I could well have got the second phone.'
1485 "So is it likely that this second phone is at your home address''
 Reply "Err that is a strong possibility.'
1485 "So two Samsung phones.'
 Reply "Yeah, yeah.'
1485 "One is, to your knowledge, still with Kate and Gerry.'
 Reply "Yeah.'
 1485 "The other one you may well have at your home address.'
 Reply "Yeah, yeah.'
1485 "Did you use the phones often''
 Reply "Not''
1485 "In Portugal''
 Reply "Not a great deal no, no, it was, it was, first of all you know we didn't have any numbers in them already and then with being a Portuguese phone you know it was just a bit more difficult so we, if we ever used them, I mean which wasn't often, we'd perhaps call Kate and Gerry using the Portuguese phone, but it wasn't a kind of religious oh we'll just use the, that Portuguese phone to err you know establish communication.'
1485 "Yeah.'
 01:07:23 Reply "Err you know and the other reason that we, we had the, one of the phones is because Fiona didn't have a phone either so you know, so it's like she had the use of the other phone as well.'
1485 "Right, so out of the two of you then, who predominantly used that phone''
 Reply "I'd say Fiona.'
1485 "Fiona''
 Reply "Yeah.'
1485 "And has it been used since it's been in the UK''
 Reply "No.'
1485 "Okay, okay.'
 Reply "And I'm just trying to think you know how much, you know the, the, I can't remember you know obviously we were there for four weeks after but when the actual credit ran out, because I remember the credit running out and not being able to actually put anymore on even though it's supposed to be quite straight forward but again, you know whether that was after, you know, three weeks of being out there or whatever I can't remember.'
1485 "Yeah, how many times do you think you topped it up then''
 Reply "I don't, I don't think we did, I don't think I did. I don't think I could work out how to do it to be honest.'
1485 "So when both of them arrived both of them had credit on them''
 Reply "They put, I think they put, I think err I think they put forty pound credit or forty euros, you know, which seemed to last a lot longer than the amount of credit we were (inaudible) we were using our own err mobile phones.'
 1485 "Just wait there a second I'll just (inaudible).'
 Reply "Okay.'
 01:08:40 DC MESSIAH leaves the interview room.
 01:09:00 DC MESSIAH re-enters the interview room.
1485 "All done.'
 Reply "Okay.'
1485 "The phone, is it likely that I could collect it when I take you home''
 Reply "I can certainly have a look for it and I can give you, I mean if you, if you wanted to have my other mobile phone with all the numbers in and you know if you can access text messages on that you're welcome to have that phone.'
1485 "Okay, do you know where you'd be able to put your hand on it if you''
 Reply "Err the Samsung one, again, there was a Vodaphone bag that was knocking around, and that would be where it is if err I can find it. Fiona might know.'
1485 "Okay, perhaps you could give her a call or something.'
 Reply "Yeah, yeah.'
1485 "Alright then, it's now sixteen forty on this date.'
 01:09:48 The interview ceased at 1640 hours when the tape recorder was switched off.
 SIGNATURE (Sgd)
 SLS

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

So Gerry McCann was given a cheap rate phone ... Wow!!

**snip
01:04:02 1485 "And where were these phones, when did these phones arrive''
 Reply "Err when did we get the phones' When we were at the Police Station, err you know as, you know I just asked whether I could just pop downstairs there was someone who's brought us phones and they said yeah, so I quickly popped downstairs, got the phones, and took them back into the Police Station. Err I can't remember if there was any power in them when we opened them up but err so then that was, you know, so the phones were just, you know because we hadn't got any other, anything there, so.' http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

... and the phone was one of two delivered to ... the police station ... in the full knowledge of the PJ.  This is just getting to be too suspicious for words!!

[pathfinder73]

So Gerry McCann was given a cheap rate phone ... Wow!!

**snip
01:04:02 1485 "And where were these phones, when did these phones arrive''
 Reply "Err when did we get the phones' When we were at the Police Station, err you know as, you know I just asked whether I could just pop downstairs there was someone who's brought us phones and they said yeah, so I quickly popped downstairs, got the phones, and took them back into the Police Station. Err I can't remember if there was any power in them when we opened them up but err so then that was, you know, so the phones were just, you know because we hadn't got any other, anything there, so.' http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

... and the phone was one of two delivered to ... the police station ... in the full knowledge of the PJ.  This is just getting to be too suspicious for words!!

Anything Mr Err says is suspicious  *&*%£

[misty]

Anything Mr Err says is suspicious  *&*%£

Why is it suspicious? Because somebody (KG) came forward 2 days after RM had been made an arguido & planted some seeds of suspicion that someone had an unhealthy interest in little girls?

[faithlilly]

Why is it suspicious? Because somebody (KG) came forward 2 days after RM had been made an arguido & planted some seeds of suspicion that someone had an  unhealthy interest in little girls?

Don't forget KG suspicions were somewhat bolstered by those of Yvonne Martin.

[pathfinder73]

Don't forget KG suspicions were somewhat bolstered by those of Yvonne Martin.

4 May 2007

- At around 09H00, she met the McCann couple next to the apartment from where the child had disappeared, accompanied by a third person, a male, who seemed quite familiar to her.

- This third person of the group appeared to be an intimate (friend) of the family as he was the one who, when the media arrived, began to explain what was happening and answering questions, thereby saving the couple from this upset. Afterwards, she further confirmed his closeness to the family when she saw him taking care of the couple's twins, also small children.

- She identified herself and presented her credentials and immediately began talking to the mother of the missing child as she was visibly upset with the situation.

- During the conversation the mother told her that she did not understand why a couple had abducted her daughter.

- However, the third individual overheard this conversation and interrupted Ms. Martin and took the McCann couple away from her.
 This same individual came shortly afterwards to tell her that the couple did not want to talk to her any further and did not require her help - an action that appeared quite strange to her.

- Meanwhile, she heard comments next to the complex reception that the British Consul was coming to the site and she decided to wait for this person in order to offer her help.

- During this time, she saw the third individual two more times. Firstly, when he was accompanying an older woman and the McCann twins, demonstrating in this way, the trust that the couple had in him by letting him take care of their two children. On the second occasion, he accompanied what appeared to her to be plain clothed police officers.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm

[Benice]

Don't forget KG suspicions were somewhat bolstered by those of Yvonne Martin.

What suspicions?   She reported no suspicions at all regarding DP's behaviour during her 'visit' to 5A. 

All she said was that his face seemed familiar and that he may be someone she'd met at work - but even if that was the case -she still didn't know whether he was a 'goodie' or a 'baddie'.   He could equally have been either.

It is reasonable to assume that she made her own checks into her past working history - but to date AFAIK her position remains unchanged.  I.E.  DP looked familiar to her but she still  hasn't remembered why.   And that's it.

   

     

[pathfinder73]

1485
 'What about the rest of the party, Kate and Gerry, did they ever discuss with you whether they locked their doors or their windows when they were in and out''
 
 Reply
 'Erm, I mean, I was aware of them swapping their arrangement at some point, because I know they had been coming, using the front door, erm, which is the door with the key, to go in and check the children, and then, at some point, that changed to using the back door, just because, as you can see from the map, it was quicker for them to do that and easier to get in, then just sort of quickly nip in through the French doors and out again. I couldn't tell you what point that was, but I know, I know there was a conversation about, oh we've started nipping in that way rather than going the long way round. Erm, so, I suppose, at that point, that's when they, because you couldn't lock the French doors from outside, that's when they weren't locking it'.
 
 00.17.34
 1485
 'Yeah. How far down the week was that''
 
 Reply
 'Erm, I mean, my feeling is, you know, they did it the front way for a couple of night and the rest left it open, but I don't know, I mean, they'd know that, as I say, I just remember the conversation'.
 
 1485
 'Yeah. Did Kate ever discus that with you, you know, when she discussed about Madeleine, did she ever discuss, you know, the''
 
 Reply
 'No, as I say, it came up at that, that conversation, which I think was on the, on the, on the Thursday night, about, erm, you know, whether I would feel happy leaving, leaving a door unlocked, but that was the only time I'd heard Kate sort of almost saying, question whether they should do it or not'.
 
 1485
 'Did she say that she actually left it unlocked then''
 
 Reply
 'Yeah, she must have done, because I knew that it wasn't locked. And I was a bit'.
 
 1485
 'And did she'.
 
 Reply
 'I mean, I was a bit surprised, I mean, Kate, you were asking about what they're like as parents, and they're certainly not, erm, paranoid parents, what I would call paranoid parents, you know, but they're very, very careful parents. Erm, you know, I've got friends who are very laid back and, you know, I wouldn't be surprised, erm, for them to feel happy doing that sort of thing. But it did surprise me a bit with Kate, because I think, you know, she is, between her and Gerry, they are very different, she is very cautious, Gerry, erm, you know, is probably more sort of happy to, tut, relax and go with the flow and that sort of thing, Kate is very, very much more cautious. So, you know, I think, as I said earlier, I think that was something she wasn't quite happy with'.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm