Author Topic: Strange Witness Statements  (Read 591608 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1320 on: June 04, 2015, 08:31:24 PM »
Who was supposed to collate a list of searchers before the police arrived then? Mark Warner? The parents? Or was that the first job the police should have done, asked everyone on the streets for their names, contact details and areas searched?

It your assertion then that the policing authority has no locus in organising the civilian volunteers in the search for a missing child.

I think it is a ridiculous assertion which goes against all known protocols ... but if you are happy who am I to upset your apple cart.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1321 on: June 04, 2015, 09:14:25 PM »
It your assertion then that the policing authority has no locus in organising the civilian volunteers in the search for a missing child.

I think it is a ridiculous assertion which goes against all known protocols ... but if you are happy who am I to upset your apple cart.

They were asking for people who searched before the police arrived to come forward.
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Offline Brietta

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1322 on: June 04, 2015, 09:51:29 PM »
They were asking for people who searched before the police arrived to come forward.

Quite.  Protocol was being followed unfortunately neither when or where it should have been to ascertain the who and where of the searchers.

At the same time a public appeal was being made for holidaymakers' photographs to be sent in if there were shots which included strangers in the background, Detective Chief Superintendent Anne Harrison was anxious to speak to holidaymakers who may have participated in the searches for Madeleine.

An efficient investigation would have already carried out these diligences. 


"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1323 on: June 04, 2015, 10:12:11 PM »
Quite.  Protocol was being followed unfortunately neither when or where it should have been to ascertain the who and where of the searchers.

At the same time a public appeal was being made for holidaymakers' photographs to be sent in if there were shots which included strangers in the background, Detective Chief Superintendent Anne Harrison was anxious to speak to holidaymakers who may have participated in the searches for Madeleine.

An efficient investigation would have already carried out these diligences.

I think you are being unfair to  the PJ. They had very little time before the holidaymakers left PdL. They spent most of it searching, interviewing those who came forward voluntarily and interviewing the group.
The initiative you are referring to couldn't have been done by the PJ as it involved asking people in the UK to come forward. Hence this lot getting involved;

The appeal was launched today by the UK law enforcement agencies assisting the
Portuguese authorities – Leicestershire Constabulary, Association of Chief Police
Officers (ACPO), the Child Exploitation and Online Protection (CEOP) Centre and
the National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA).
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Offline Brietta

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1324 on: June 04, 2015, 10:54:05 PM »
I think you are being unfair to  the PJ. They had very little time before the holidaymakers left PdL. They spent most of it searching, interviewing those who came forward voluntarily and interviewing the group.
The initiative you are referring to couldn't have been done by the PJ as it involved asking people in the UK to come forward. Hence this lot getting involved;

The appeal was launched today by the UK law enforcement agencies assisting the
Portuguese authorities – Leicestershire Constabulary, Association of Chief Police
Officers (ACPO), the Child Exploitation and Online Protection (CEOP) Centre and
the National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA).

The Polícia Judiciária have a command structure ... if you consider it "unfair" to state that elementary protocols were not carried out that is your privilege.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Online Eleanor

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1325 on: June 04, 2015, 11:01:39 PM »

Strange Witness Statements, for Christ's sake.  Do you actually want me to delete your posts?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1326 on: June 05, 2015, 12:17:55 AM »
Be kind to Kate: Mother's desperate plea after astonishing attack on McCann's 'TV circus act'
By VANESSA ALLEN
Last updated at 22:45 27 October 2007

The mother of Kate McCann has made a desperate and heartfelt appeal for the public to be 'kinder' to her daughter.
Susan Healy, 61, argued her Kate wasn't at breaking point but called for the public attacks on her daughter to stop: "I want people to start being kinder to Kate, she has enough to cope with.
"Yes, she is distressed at times and she can't smile that often at the moment. But she is very strong and she is going to fight on to get Madeleine back.
"People are saying she's at breaking point but she's not going to have a nervous breakdown."
Her mother's defence comes as Kate was left reeling after her tearful breakdown was savaged as 'a circus act' by critics who claimed it showed she had 'psychiatric problems'
Friends of Mrs McCann and her husband Gerry said they were stunned by the "vile criticism" about their
behaviour during a television interview.
They are considering taking legal action against a Spanish psychiatrist who made the worst of the slurs.
Jose Cabrera analysed the couple's television interview on Wednesday for the Portuguese newspaper Correio da Manha, who described him as a forensic psychiatrist and facial expression specialist.

He said: "When people cry they move the muscles in their face and she (Kate) did not move one single muscle, just like poker players. That is very significant."
"It brings us the certainty that she is hiding something."
He described the interview, with Spanish broadcaster Antena 3, as "staged" and "nothing but big theatre", and said he thought Mrs McCann "has had psychiatric problems for a long time" before saying: "Now they've got worse."
He added: "Any Englishman is cold but she has something else - her personality is not normal - and he (Mr McCann) causes an impression because all he worries about is her answers."
Mrs McCann, 39, has faced criticism about her apparent "coolness" and her seeming control over her emotions in public.

Mrs Healy, of Allerton, Merseyside, added: "Kate was speaking for herself in that interview - there were no restraints on her at all. Yes, she was very distressed at times but she can't be blamed for that."
A friend of the McCanns said Kate had been schooled not to show emotion because psychologists warned Madeleine's abductor could get kicks from watching her emotional response.
He said: "It is devastating for Kate and Gerry to be criticised in this way. Some of what has been said is beyond belief.
"The same people who criticised Kate when she managed to hold herself together are now attacking her because she couldn't.
"The fact she cried during a TV interview proves nothing except the fact that Kate is running on high emotions, as you would expect any mother whose child has gone missing would be.

philosophical about the media coverage but they cannot let this level of vile
criticism go. They are absolutely
shocked and stunned.
"When the time is right they will
be taking action against anyone
who they feel has overstepped the
mark. It is good that Correio
printed the name of the Spanish
psychologist whose opinions they
published. He is one more person
on the list of people to sue."
The couple have already
threatened legal action against the
Portuguese weekly newspaper Tal e
Qual, which accused them of
killing their daughter, and the
daily tabloid 24 Horas, which claimed Mr McCann was not
Madeleine's biological father.
Mr Cabrera, 50, did not restrict
his comments to Mrs McCann.
The Madrid-based psychiatrist - who has never met the couple - said Mr McCann's only concern during the interview was to "control" his wife.
He said: "All he worried about was
controlling her. It's extraordinary.
Whenever she opened her mouth
to talk he squeezed her hand - and
all this because the key to this
mystery is definitely with her."
He added: "It is he who
dominates the whole situation. He is
aware of everything and knows he
has to control her and her
problematic personality so that she
does not go too far in front of the
cameras and speak too much."
Mr McCann, also 39, did whisper
a warning to his wife at the end of
the interview, telling her not to
speak until her microphone was
taken off, but friends said that was
because they had just been asked
a question which their lawyers had
told them not to answer.
The couple were said to be
horrified by the response to the
interview, which was given to appeal
for help in finding Madeleine and
to launch a 24-hour information
hotline.
Mr Cabrera was not their only
critic. Portuguese criminologist
Moita Flores, a former detective
with the Policia Judiciaria, said:
"The interview was a circus act.
"The most curious thing is that
before this interview was agreed
to, everybody already knew she
was going to cry, which is what
happened, and she even managed
to play the part quite well."
He told Correio da Manha: "It
was an act which nobody believes.
After their theory of abduction
they now insist on their
innocence, and those who are
innocent don't need this."
McCann spokesman Clarence
Mitchell said: "A few days ago Kate
was criticised for not showing
enough emotion and then when
she does cry she is criticised too.
"Everything Kate and Gerry said
on that interview was totally
genuine. They have nothing to hide.
"Our lawyers are watching the
media coverage very carefully in
both Portugal and Britain and
action will be taken against
anything we feel has gone too far."
The 24-hour hotline was said to
have attracted a huge number of
calls in its first day of operation.
It was set up on the advice of
private investigators working for the
McCanns, who will follow up
potential sightings and leads.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-489889/Be-kind-Kate-Mothers-desperate-plea-astonishing-attack-McCanns-TV-circus-act.html
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1327 on: June 05, 2015, 12:32:37 AM »
Antena 3 interview
 
Transcript by Nigel Moore
 
Robert Arce: (not shown on Sky News clip) After six months since the disappearance of Madeleine, how are you feeling? How is your strength?
 
Kate McCann: I feel lonely and, errm... life's obviously not as happy without Madeleine, errm... but, you know, I still have hope... we still have hope, errm...
 
Gerry McCann: Definitely. You know, we're still... she's out there, we believe that.
 
Kate McCann: I just feel anxious that she's out there and she's not with us.
 
RA: I want to ask about your other two children. How are they - Amelie and Sean - do they ask about Madeleine?
 
Kate McCann: I mean, they... they do ask about Madeleine and Madeleine was very much a big part of their life, errm... and they ask where she is but they're not upset, they're not distressed but they're obviously very aware that she's not there, especially being home, errm... and I guess it... it's hard for us, as parents, to imagine, errm... the fun they'd be having together, the three of them, if Madeleine was there, errm...
 
Gerry McCann: I think the hardest thing for me is when they... they say things to us like 'When is Madeleine coming back home?' and, you know, we have to say that we don't know but everyone's looking for her.
 
Kate McCann: Yeah, we say that, and I... I did say things like 'We're looking for her' and 'We're finding Madeleine' and things, and then... I mean Amelie said the other day, she just said, errm... it wasn't to me actually, it was to my friend, she just said 'Madeleine's coming home to my lovely house and I'm going to share my toys with her'.
 
RA: Question in Spanish
 
Kate McCann: I mean there's a couple of reasons why we haven't spoken, errm... there's obviously quite a lot that we haven't been able to... to speak about, in the last couple of months, errr... with circumstances, errm... and if I'm honest, I've been a little bit, errm... disheartened, disillusioned with the media coverage and I think now, I mean, you mentioned the six months, and it's... it's a long time to be without Madeleine and we believe she's out there and we just want to appeal again, once more, to the people of Portugal, Spain and North Africa to help us, really, and that's why we've got a new central phone number that people can ring, errm...
 
RA: Do you still maintain that Madeleine is alive?
 
Kate McCann: I do, maybe even more so, I strongly believe that Madeleine is out there, errm... I think she's probably in someone's house, I don't know why, errm... and I... I suppose it's a feeling but I feel, as Madeleine's mummy, I feel in my heart really that she's there and I don't... I don't believe Madeleine has been taken away fom us permanently. I don't believe that. Don't feel it.
 
Gerry McCann: I don't know who would harm her.
 
Kate McCann: I don't think anybody could harm someone as beautiful as Madeleine and I... I don't say beautiful as in her appearance, I mean beautiful as she is a beautiful little person and I don't think anybody would harm her.
 
RA: Question in Spanish
 
Kate McCann: Just a happy little girl. A beautiful, happy little girl.
 
Gerry McCann: Just think of all the times... the nice times that we've had in our house, and her in playing, in the playroom with her... with her... the twins.
 
RA: Question in Spanish
 
Kate McCann: Definitely. I mean, I think, you know, the public can help so much, I think, if people know something, if they can, errm... just, I guess, search their heart, really. Somebody knows something and they might not realise it, they might just suspect something but every... everybody can make a difference to this. It's not about us, we miss her like crazy, but this is Madeleine, this is a four-year-old girl, we haven't even seen her since she's been four. You know Madeleine's there and she needs our help. She needs to be with her family, you know...
 
Gerry McCann: As parents we're just... we're asking... as parents for people to try and reunite an innocent four-year-old girl with her parents.
 
RA: Question in Spanish
 
Kate McCann: 100%. 100%.
 
Voice off-camera: Of everyone?
 
Kate McCann: Of our friends, yes.
 
Gerry McCann: Absolutely... and... but... you know, the same way that we will be eliminated, they will, as well. No doubt in my mind about that. We are much more optimistic about what Mr Ribeiro, the national director, and Mr Rebelo are saying that all lines of inquiry are open and we know, because of our... we know we are innocent, we know that she was taken.
 
RA: Question in Spanish
 
Gerry McCann: We can't really talk in detail about the arguido status but I... the way I understand it is, the arguido status is to give... defend your own rights, so if the police want to ask questions, difficult questions, they have to make you arguido, so, that, in itself, isn't a problem. We've not been charged with anything, the investigation continues and we will be eliminated and the key thing is: Madeleine is out there, and everyone...
 
Kate McCann: And, as traumatic as it's been, it's secondary, it really is secondary. I'll take anything that's thrown at me but number one is getting my daughter back, without doubt.
 
RA: Many people are asking here in Spain if you, the parents, have been unjustly accused about the disappearance of your daughter and do you think the reaction should have been more open and less cold?
 
Gerry McCann: I think it's hard, errm... if people are reading everyday that someone has done something, or is guilty of something, it's hard to ignore it but, you know, we've always said... always said that, you know, we will wait for the facts and... and to look at what the official statements are saying and that scenario hasn't changed, errm... I don't know how some of the things have been published, errr... and we have asked for responsible reporting, errm... and we still ask for that but the key thing, for us, is finding out where Madeleine is.
 
RA: Question in Spanish
 
Kate McCann: After being made arguido? You know, we know the truth. I know I'm innocent. Gerry knows he's innocent. We know each other are innocent and that to me, it... it was actually quite calming, 'cause I thought, we're innocent, we're totally innocent and we know that and...
 
Gerry McCann: I think, as well, that you've got to remember, it was, errm... it was over four months since Madeleine disappeared and nothing, nothing that's happened to us in this time...
 
Kate McCann: That's right.
 
Gerry McCann: ... has come close to upsetting us the way we felt when we discovered Madeleine missing.
 
RA: Question in Spanish
 
Kate McCann: Well, they're not gonna show anything to implicate us, so I'm not... you know, I'm not concerned, if I'm honest.
 
Gerry McCann: We're certainly not scared, you know, if there is anything in the DNA results and we don't know them and we... we cannot know them, and I don't believe anyone in the press knows them either, but there is nothing in those DNA tests, related to Kate and I, that will show anything other than completely innocent. Errm... Whether that is enough to eliminate us, I don't know, but we will be eliminated, I'm confident of that because we have done nothing.
 
RA: Question is Spanish
 
Kate McCann: I mean it's 'Please help us'; 'Please help us as a family'; 'Please help us find Madeleine'; 'Please help Madeleine'; 'Please, if you know any information at all, or you suspect anything, no matter how small, please, you know, just... find it in yourself, really, have that courage to make that call to the new number and help us bring Madeleine home'.
 
RA: Question in Spanish
 
Gerry McCann: I... I don't think so, errr... that it is bad. We... you know, she's been missing for almost six months now and the longer that goes on the more, errm... high risk or aggressive the strategy for us is. We have waited and been incredibly patient. Clearly the media attention has never gone away...
 
Kate McCann: Yeah...
 
Gerry McCann: ...it's never gone away...
 
Kate McCann: I mean, we haven't spoken for long and, it... you know...
 
Gerry McCann: ...and, errm...
 
Kate McCann: ...day after day Madeleine's in the paper, or on the front page, and we've said nothing.
 
RA: Question in Spanish
 
Kate McCann: It's a little bit like as I mentioned before, she was very happy, errm... and very loving and, you know, I know Madeleine was very happy with her life. She's special.
 
RA: You were the last one to see Madeleine because Gerry was playing tennis. Is that right?
 
Kate McCann: I can't...
 
Gerry McCann: I saw her... I saw her and, errm... I thought how beautiful she was and how lucky I was to be the father of three children.
 
RA: You deny that you have ever given your children sedatives to make them sleep?
 
Kate McCann: You know, I'm not even going to answer that question, I'm afraid...
 
Gerry McCann: I mean, that... it's ludicrous and, you know, these sort of questions, and the publishing of them, are nonsense and we shouldn't be giving them the time of day. There is absolutely no suggestion, errm... that Madeleine or the children were drugged and it's outrageous.
 
Kate McCann: All I'm going to say is: I'm Madeleine's mummy, I know she was taken from that apartment and she's out there and I want her back. I mean that... that is all, I mean, everything else, I'm sorry, is... is rubbish.
 
RA: Question in Spanish
 
Kate McCann: What do you think? We're very close.
 
Gerry McCann: We're completely together in this and we're united in the search for Madeleine... our... our daughter.
 
RA: Is there anything that you regret?
 
Gerry McCann: Not from the minute we found her gone.
 
RA: In Spain everyone hopes that Madeleine returns to you alive and well.

Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1328 on: June 05, 2015, 12:34:20 AM »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1329 on: June 05, 2015, 01:18:33 AM »
8@??)(
...
Like you, I did think of the eastern end of the alleyway behind block 4.

...

What I didn't like was that alleyway junction is quite a distance from the tapas bar ...

It is an option worth considering, but...
 
I prefer the balcony immediately across the road from 5A, because everyone had to walk by that .... and it is only a maxm of 12 metres [40 ft] from where everyone walked ... and moderately illuminated.

In addition anyone there could see in virtually every direction that peeps could come to catch them "at-it".
Balcony to rear of block 6 is good.  Front of block 6 is not so good.  We have the testimony of the lady visiting in 605.  Unless it was her, we have to go up.  Balu and Berry on the balcony of 606 that night, which cuts the options.

So we are looking at the levels above ground floor, on the balcony at the rear.  That means access to the balcony, and that means access to the relevant apartment.  Now the timescale is getting very complex.

It could have happened that way, but I am having trouble with the trigger.
What's up, old man?

Offline G-Unit

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1330 on: June 05, 2015, 09:00:02 AM »
The Polícia Judiciária have a command structure ... if you consider it "unfair" to state that elementary protocols were not carried out that is your privilege.

Are you saying that getting names, contact details and areas searched from a group of holidaymakers and local expats was an 'elementary protocol'? When should all these searchers have been rounded up and questioned then? Should they have been formally interviewed or just informally questioned?
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Offline sadie

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1331 on: June 05, 2015, 09:17:24 AM »
Balcony to rear of block 6 is good.  Front of block 6 is not so good.  We have the testimony of the lady visiting in 605.  Unless it was her, we have to go up.  Balu and Berry on the balcony of 606 that night, which cuts the options.

So we are looking at the levels above ground floor, on the balcony at the rear.  That means access to the balcony, and that means access to the relevant apartment.  Now the timescale is getting very complex.

It could have happened that way, but I am having trouble with the trigger.
I think it was planned

Probably light (torch or lighter) signals might have been used to signal the all clear, etc.
 

If using the Block 6 balcony over looking the side of 5A. then it would idealy need a group of three, altho it could have been done by two. 
1.  Watcher/director/ driver
2.  Lifter (someone with some medical knowledge and also preferably had to be someone known to Madeleine)
3.  Main adductor (standing outside 5A) watchig for signals from no1 across the road and also passing things (drugs etc) thru the window and directing / encouraging the lifter. 
He also had the key and opened and closed the front door using only the ley, so no fingerprints.
 
We used to call him Bundleman but we seem to call him Tannerman now.

The lifter passed Madeleine to him then scarpered, possibly back to the staff quarters.   
He expected to be picked up with Madeleine in his arms from Block 5 car park entrance, but as the car was late and he he was impatient and frightened, he walked to meet the car at Jane Tanner corner.


In the meantime the watcher/ driver had taken fright at seeing Gerry and Jez talking then Jane Tanner witnessing the abduction, so he turned tail and scarpered, driving off in the opposite directioin (south). 


By this time, he had been on the little car parking area opposite the Tapas reception and he would have had to pass Gerry and Jez to pick up Madeleine and the abductor..

This little car park can, I believe, be accessed directly via the (balcony) building and the rear garden.  No need for the driver to walk thru public places, so effectively hidden in plain sight


A perfect set up.  Nothing to go wrong ....  but it did !




Only a theory, but it works


Offline G-Unit

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1332 on: June 05, 2015, 09:45:15 AM »
I think it was planned

Probably light (torch or lighter) signals might have been used to signal the all clear, etc.
 

If using the Block 6 balcony over looking the side of 5A. then it would idealy need a group of three, altho it could have been done by two. 
1.  Watcher/director/ driver
2.  Lifter (someone with some medical knowledge and also preferably had to be someone known to Madeleine)
3.  Main adductor (standing outside 5A) watchig for signals from no1 across the road and also passing things (drugs etc) thru the window and directing / encouraging the lifter. 
He also had the key and opened and closed the front door using only the ley, so no fingerprints.
 
We used to call him Bundleman but we seem to call him Tannerman now.

The lifter passed Madeleine to him then scarpered, possibly back to the staff quarters.   
He expected to be picked up with Madeleine in his arms from Block 5 car park entrance, but as the car was late and he he was impatient and frightened, he walked to meet the car at Jane Tanner corner.


In the meantime the watcher/ driver had taken fright at seeing Gerry and Jez talking then Jane Tanner witnessing the abduction, so he turned tail and scarpered, driving off in the opposite directioin (south). 


By this time, he had been on the little car parking area opposite the Tapas reception and he would have had to pass Gerry and Jez to pick up Madeleine and the abductor..

This little car park can, I believe, be accessed directly via the (balcony) building and the rear garden.  No need for the driver to walk thru public places, so effectively hidden in plain sight


A perfect set up.  Nothing to go wrong ....  but it did !




Only a theory, but it works

Does this take place after Gerald looked at Madeleine in her bed?
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Offline sadie

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1333 on: June 05, 2015, 12:05:54 PM »
Does this take place after Gerald looked at Madeleine in her bed?
Using VERY BASIC logic.

Yes it must have done.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1334 on: June 05, 2015, 12:17:10 PM »
Using VERY BASIC logic.

Yes it must have done.

The watcher must have seen Jeremy Wilkins approaching just before Gerry came out, then he saw Gerry emerging and stopping to speak with Jeremy. Nevertheless he gave a signal to go ahead? I wonder why he didn't wait until the coast was clear?
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