Strange Witness Statements

[Eleanor]

there are plenty of facts in this case......you wont agree with my reasoning so whats the point.......the mccanns are not involved and maddie was almost certainly abducted..imo

I just wonder how everyone is going to deal with it when this is proven to be true.

[Mr Gray]

I probably won't. but I've only heard you mention two things, both said by Redwood. Is your whole theory based on two things a retired detective said ages ago or is there more?

lots more....I have looked at the whole picture and can see no way the mccanns were involved......Redwoods statement just confirmed SY agree with me

[Mr Gray]

It isn't difficult to create a case against someone online when the questions you ask are not directly answered...Richard Hall could probably make a convincing case that Tony Blair was behind the 7/7 attacks....but he wasn't...no doubt someone will say can I prove it.....the answers no


just checked and R D Hall...whose views are featured on this site does believe Blair was behind 7/7

[G-Unit]

lots more....I have looked at the whole picture and can see no way the mccanns were involved......Redwoods statement just confirmed SY agree with me

Well I've also looked at the whole picture and while they may be innocent there are so many strange aspects to the case that it can't be guaranteed using the information we have. Scotland Yard may be the bees knees as far as you're concerned, but their track record doesn't fill me with confidence. It's not even their case. Whatever they have found/may find they will need the co-operation of the Portuguese to progress.

[pegasus]

@SL

Do you know if there is a small garden near or close to the Ocean Club main reception? Mr Carpenter's daughter was 3 years old so was probably in the other Mini club group.

SC: Hummm... I remember talking to Gerry, because I had to go and fetch I*** and they were playing in the small garden and he was (inaudible), I***** and I thought it was Maddie, I am not absolutely sure
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN-CARPENTER.htm

That child was in the starfish/jellyfish kidsclub located in same set of buildings as tapas bar. The "small garden" in that statement is the grassy play area next to tapas bar.

[pegasus]

Neil Berry formal interview Apr 2008.  "From 22.00 onwards all the events that took place were already described in my previous statement of 7th May 2007 and i cannot add any further information, other than that which was already added."

That could have been a missing formal statement, or it could have been an informal chat that never made it into the files e.g. we took part in the MW search and saw nothing.

In the Apr 2008 interview, Berry states that the McCanns were not at Tapas when he and Balu picked up their take-away.  To mention that and then not mention meeting and talking to Gerry after the disappearance strikes me as highly unlikely, but as I have not seen an original testimony by Berry, I cannot prove it.

And how one can leap from a potential missing statement, one that does not appear to ever have been read, to state it shows conclusively that Gerry searched, is the point I am having difficulty in accepting.

@ShiningInLuz The exact answer to what NB and RB heard from 606 balcony is given here in the report of a Brit analyst (probably Met?) working in Mr Amaral's team.
"G was seen and spoken to by NB and RB. They heard him calling for M when they were sitting on N's balcony, not far from the M's apartment. They both went down to talk to G and helped in the search."
(Outros apensos 2 file 9 p11-14)

[pegasus]

"After the girl's disappearance, she is not sure but believes it was last Saturday, 5th May she received a bag of clothes from MW employees and was told expressly that these were clothes from Madeleine's family."
Processos Vol III Pages 564-566

[ShiningInLuz]

@ShiningInLuz The exact answer to what NB and RB heard from 606 balcony is given here in the report of a Brit analyst (probably Met?) working in Mr Amaral's team.
"G was seen and spoken to by NB and RB. They heard him calling for M when they were sitting on N's balcony, not far from the M's apartment. They both went down to talk to G and helped in the search."
(Outros apensos 2 file 9 p11-14)

Thank you for this.

I have not got the files organised in file number/page number, so may I ask, kindly, if you have a link for this?  Please?

Based on your info, I have found http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIGADE-OF-INFORMATION.htm This looks like a PJ person. 

"The men's movements, however, are more difficult to pinpoint.

Gerald was seen and spoken to by Neil Berry and Raj Malu. They heard him calling for Madeleine when they were sitting on Neil's balcony, not far from the McCann's apartment. They both went down to talk to Gerald and helped in the search."

Oddly, this information does not turn up in the body of the report, only in the summary.  But some PJ bod appears to be saying, on 28 May 2007, that the info connects Gerry, Neil and Raj.

The joy of forums.  Onward and upward.

[G-Unit]

That child was in the starfish/jellyfish kidsclub located in same set of buildings as tapas bar. The "small garden" in that statement is the grassy play area next to tapas bar.

Those are Toddlers. Toddlers 1 was for kids above 1 year and below 2 years. Toddlers 2 was for those above 2 years and below 3 years. This child was a Mini, aged above 3 years and below 5 years. The Baby club was for kids above 4 months and below 1 year.

Was there more than one 'garden' where the children were taken to play, is what I want to know.

As part of her work she frequently takes the children for swimming, walks on the beach and to the garden [play area] next to the tennis courts. 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STACY-POTZ.htm

[pathfinder73]

@ShiningInLuz The exact answer to what NB and RB heard from 606 balcony is given here in the report of a Brit analyst (probably Met?) working in Mr Amaral's team.
"G was seen and spoken to by NB and RB. They heard him calling for M when they were sitting on N's balcony, not far from the M's apartment. They both went down to talk to G and helped in the search."
(Outros apensos 2 file 9 p11-14)

That is known but the time isn't and because NB & RB used a paper in their searches then MW were involved and that is 10:20pm at the earliest which is AFTER 10.

At about 22.17 I received a call from Lyndsey Johnson, the creche Manager, informing me that the girl had gone missing. I met Lyndsey and the Service Manager, Amy Tierney, near to the Tapas Bar and we initiated the 'Mark Warner procedures for the search of a missing child'.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm

[pegasus]

That is known but the time isn't and because NB & RB used a paper in their searches then MW were involved and that is 10:20pm at the earliest which is AFTER 10.

At about 22.17 I received a call from Lyndsey Johnson, the creche Manager, informing me that the girl had gone missing. I met Lyndsey and the Service Manager, Amy Tierney, near to the Tapas Bar and we initiated the 'Mark Warner procedures for the search of a missing child'.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm

It is obvious that GM was the very first searcher the people on 606 balcony noticed. If your pathfinder theory that they didnt see GM searching until after 10.20 was correct, the people on 606 balcony would have noticed other searchers first wouldn't they? You are way out on timing IMO, and by far more than minutes.

[G-Unit]

It is obvious that GM was the very first searcher the people on 606 balcony noticed. If your pathfinder theory that they didnt see GM searching until after 10.20 was correct, the people on 606 balcony would have noticed other searchers first wouldn't they? You are way out on timing IMO, and by far more than minutes.

According to GM the alarm wasn't raised until 10.13pm. (although according to nanny Jacqueline W a woman told them at the creche at 10.05pm) Then he went to the apartment and tested the shutters. Only then did the searching begin.

According to Balu it was after 10pm when they heard 'noises' downstairs. It was after that they found out that a child had disappeared. At some point they overheard a conversation, whatever that means.

Balu and Berry were in the Tapas bar at 3.30pm having a drink. They don't mention if it was alcoholic, but Balu says they stayed there until after 7pm. By 8pm they're back for their food, and have a drink while they wait. They get four bottles of red wine with the meal. I would guess they weren't 100% sober that night.

[pathfinder73]

It is obvious that GM was the very first searcher the people on 606 balcony noticed. If your pathfinder theory that they didnt see GM searching until after 10.20 was correct, the people on 606 balcony would have noticed other searchers first wouldn't they? You are way out on timing IMO, and by far more than minutes.

If it's obvious then you can easily provide evidence other than GM searching close to their balcony at block 6.

[pathfinder73]

According to GM the alarm wasn't raised until 10.13pm. (although according to nanny Jacqueline W a woman told them at the creche at 10.05pm) Then he went to the apartment and tested the shutters. Only then did the searching begin.

According to Balu it was after 10pm when they heard 'noises' downstairs. It was after that they found out that a child had disappeared. At some point they overheard a conversation, whatever that means.

Balu and Berry were in the Tapas bar at 3.30pm having a drink. They don't mention if it was alcoholic, but Balu says they stayed there until after 7pm. By 8pm they're back for their food, and have a drink while they wait. They get four bottles of red wine with the meal. I would guess they weren't 100% sober that night.

They definitely wouldn't be sober and knowing the time hence the AFTER 10 statement from them both.

[ShiningInLuz]

Those are Toddlers. Toddlers 1 was for kids above 1 year and below 2 years. Toddlers 2 was for those above 2 years and below 3 years. This child was a Mini, aged above 3 years and below 5 years. The Baby club was for kids above 4 months and below 1 year.

Was there more than one 'garden' where the children were taken to play, is what I want to know.

As part of her work she frequently takes the children for swimming, walks on the beach and to the garden [play area] next to the tennis courts. 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STACY-POTZ.htm

There is a large garden between OC reception and block 1.  You can clearly see it on Google Earth.  I have seen kids playing on it several times, I have never noticed an MW or OC staff member supervising.  Equally, I cannot remember any sort of play equipment there.

The Tapas area is just to the west.  That area is walled off so entry and exit is controlled, thus more secure.  And it has play equipment for the kids.

It makes more sense to use that rather than the garden south of block 1.