Author Topic: Strange Witness Statements  (Read 591490 times)

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Cariad

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Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2013, 06:31:08 PM »
That was one of the worst books I ever had the misfortune of wasting my time trying to read.

Yeah, I was underwhelmed by it too. Unfortunately I've read worse. 

Aiofe

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Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2013, 08:48:21 PM »
No. Legal systems don't generate miscarriages.
And please don't pretend I said what I didn't, extracting sentences from context.

That is exactly what you said.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #77 on: October 30, 2013, 09:47:56 PM »
Carole TRANMER

CT'Mmm, good. My aunt, Pamela Fenn, lives in a Luz apartment and we visit her frequently. Our last visit was a result of a birthday gift, if you can call it that. But our trip was in reality to look for a home, as we would like to live there one day. For this reason, we stayed in the eastern Algarve, not in my aunt's house but in a small complex whose name I do not remember.

 DC1485'Could it have been Pinhal do Sol'

 CT'Yes, that is it.

 DC1485'Yes.

 CT'So, we stayed there. We booked a reservation for only a week, and hummm'on Sunday, we decide to visit my aunt and to take her to lunch. It was at this point that the photographs of our holidays were taken.

 DC1485'Yes.

 CT'After this we spent the rest of our time in the eastern Algarve to look at properties and on Thursday'my birthday was on Tuesday'we decided to take my aunt to lunch before our return the next Saturday. The incident happened on Thursday.

 DC1485'Yes. You should continue and explain how everything happened.

 CT'Yes, I will describe it; I will describe everything, everything that I can.

 CT'We were all seated on the terrace, hummm'talking, and I was inclined to look below and this is when I saw someone leave the apartment of the first floor, closing the gate very gently as they were leaving, opening and closing the gate with much caution and in silence. It appeared to me very strange. They looked to one side and the other, shut the gate and walked very quickly downwards. It was at this point that I turned to my aunt and my husband and exclaimed 'That was really very strange', but they were talking and very involved in the conversation (inaudible). I became involved in the conversation and did not think anymore about the incident. We left when it was around 6h30, after having finished eating and doing other things, and on Friday we passed by car, continuing to look at properties and such. We did not visit any estate agents, and on Saturday we left. We got to the airport and heard people talking about a missing child. This did not yet bring anything back and we commented on the horror.

 CT'After arriving home, Sunday morning we woke and read the Times Sunday paper. There we saw my aunt's apartment and the notice about the missing child. I did not want to believe it and for this reason telephoned her and said: 'Did you see'' to which she responded 'It was been an inferno, terrible since both of you left'. After this I spoke with my cousin, whose son is at Sandhurst and told her 'What do you think we should do, do you think'' because at this time I remembered that I had seen something. It did not come to me right away but afterwards I told my husband 'Well, I saw that funny situation, you know'that type of behavior of the individual, with a sneaky aspect' to which he responded, 'Well you should talk to the police', and I said 'Yes, but it is likely that it has nothing to do with it'. After, we thought a bit more about it and I telephoned my cousin who is at Sandhurst and he told me that I should call the police and tell them. I did exactly this. I telephoned the Windsor police and told them, more or less, what I had told him and to my family. They told me that they would give me a number to call the Leicester police. We passed by the Windsor squadron but it is clear that no one was there so I called the Leciester police and told them basically what I had seen. They told me, well'thank you, we are going to get in touch with you, and after that everything happened. This is what happened, more or less.

DC1485'Where should we start.

 CT'At the head.

 DC1485'the head.

 CT'Because it was what I saw first.

 DC1485'yes.

 CT'Humm... he was blonde, with a lot of hair, very short, not like mine but a little more, humm... but not like a footballer, do you know what I mean' A style close to shaven. Very short, blonde, the head was very sculptured. The shape of the head was very sculptured, more oval shaped.

 DC1485'Yes.

 CT'And, humm... then I believe I saw him wearing a blue-grey T-shirt, it was not dark blue, more of a pallid colour and it was, humm... a type of blue with short sleeves, humm... but I did not see anything below, I did not see the trousers or shoes or anything else, only the top part and he would have, I would say'humm, when looking from above, he was not short, I would say he was about a 1'78, about medium height. He was not thing nor was he muscular. So he was of average stature. I would say he was European but not Portuguese. He was not dark and, he was not short, but I would say that he looked Scandinavian if you will, because he was very light and could have been British or Scandinavian. Even though I was looking upwards, he had big eyes, there is nothing else. He did not have tattoos, nothing like this, humm'a person of common appearance, it was his furtiveness that called my attention, humm, no, I can't'

 DC1485'Could you give him an age'

 CT'Yes, I believe so, I would say that he was between, oh he was not old, 30 to 35, I don't believe that he was older than this.

 DC1485'And his aspect'

 CT'It was clear, he was light-skinned, he had no freckles, he was not sunburned, he was not dark, nor bronzed from the sun, he was a light colour, not white, white but you know'humm..he was not one who was exposed to the sun.

 DC1485'And when he walked, did he have any particular walk or limp'

 CT'No, I never really noticed his gait as I only saw him leave the gate. He did not appear incapacitated, hum' he was merely ordinary looking, I did not really look at his walk.

 DC1485'You told me he did not have tattoos; was he wearing any jewellery'

 CT'No, I did not see any jewellery, no, no he did not have necklaces or rings and as far as I could tell, he did not have earrings.

 DC1485'And his T-shirt, you spoke to me about his T-shirt, did it have an inscription'

 CT'No, it was a common shirt, without inscriptions, it was light blue in colour, or grey, it could have been grey, mmm.

 DC1485'And the T-shirt, did it have buttons or was it simply something that went up to the neck'

 CT'No, it went up to the neck and had sleeves, short sleeves, but not straps, of this type, just short sleeves.

 DC1485'Yes, and was it loose-fitting'

 CT'No it was not snug, it was not loose, it was comfortable.

 DC1485'Did it fit him loosely'

 CT'It was big but not by much.

 DC1485'Yes.

 CT'It was simply common, the type of T-shirt one wears on Saturday.

 DC1485'Yes, yes.

 CT'With inscriptions or anything in general, mmm.

 DC'And he was well-shaven'

 CT'Yes, yes.

 DC1485'Yes without a beard or did you notice anything else'

 CT'No, nothing from what I remember, because he was very blonde.

 DC1485'Yes.

 CT'But if he had a beard, I would have seen it.

 DC1485'Spectacles'

 CT'No, he did not have sunglasses, nor did he wear spectacles.

 DC1485'He did not use sunglasses'

 CT'No.

 DC1485'Okay, and for how long did you think you saw him'

 CT'Well, humm... the time it takes to leave, shut the gate, look to the side, look to that side, a few seconds because he did not take very long to do this, I would say that it was for a minute or something like that.

CT'Yes, although I saw him from above, I have (inaudible) because I very much like this photograph.

 DC1485'Oh right.

 CT'For this reason, I am very good at this. But not in measurements (inaudible)'facial recognition, hummm.

 DC1485'Okay, but this one.

 CT'Yes, the head, the cut of the hair, the hair line was very similar, mmm... but the individual made him on CD, humm.

 DC1485'What did he do'

 CT'He, well, he assigned a document to confirm that I was correct but it was all on computer and'humm'he took it back to Reading.

 DC1485'He was from Reading'

 CT'He worked for the Reading Police, so I assumed he was legitimate.

 DC1485'Did he leave a card or another contact'

 CT'Humm...

 DC1485'Is the name recognisable'

 CT'No, but it was all noted by the Police in Reading.

 DC1485'Where did they go'

 CT'They, they went to my office.

 DC1485'They went to your office'

 CT'Yes.

 DC1485'How many of them were there'

 CT'Only one, with a laptop.

 DC1485'I am not suggesting that he, he'

 CT'I was going to say that, I hope he was legitimate, this was a long
 time ago.
 DC1485'Yes, I am not suggesting this, simply, I want you to help me find him.

 CT'I, I do not remember his name, humm.

 DC1485'You told me that he was young'

 CT'Yes, a young person.

 DC1485'He was in his youth'

 CT'Well, a computer genious, but not one of those weird looking ones, you know'hum, very much younger'humm, he was around 25 or something.

 Dc1485'Okay.

 CT'Dark hair, hum'short, yes, I remember that he was very short, humm'and was only'

 DC1485'You have a fantastic memory, did you know that'

 CT' (laughs) Perhaps this has something to do with my past, because I was working, hummm'my other organisation was, hummm'called Reading because it was all organized by them.

DC1485'Okay. Some questions that were asked of me need clarification, first you told me everything that you saw when he was at the gate. In what direction he was looking when he exited; when he was preparing to leave; when he began walking through the gate and consequently, already outside the gate'

 CT'Well, he was looking in the direction opposite to me.

 DC1485'Yes.

 CT'Thus, he must have... I did not look, I only saw him leave via the gate, turn and here he did this stealthily, slowly, at opening the gate,. It was the manner in which he opened it. He did not look to where I was, nor did he see me.

 Dc1485'Good.

 CT'And... humm, I was more or less with my back turned towards him, and he used two hands to do this, which was strange, and after looked in that direction, to the left, and left as I turned away.

 DC1485'Yes.

 DC1485'How much time'how much time did he look to the left'

 CT'It was for a bit, very intentional.

 DC1485'Like he was stopping to look'

 CT'Yes, intentially to check to see something, you know, and after looking from one side to the other before leaving; this is what called my attention.

 DC1485'Did someone else see him'

 CT'No because my husband and aunt were seated, but below the terrace wall, so that they did not see anything.

 DC1485'Okay.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #78 on: October 30, 2013, 09:49:03 PM »

Aiofe

  • Guest
Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #79 on: October 30, 2013, 10:00:16 PM »
No.

It is copied and pasted from your previous post.


Portugal is a State of Law, whether you like it or not. Nobody "pins" murder on nobody here. There's a constitution, a written one (not like in the UK), that guarantees respect to human beings.
You refuse, Benice, to understand what an arguido is, perhaps because it doesn't suit your agenda which is to portrait the McCanns as major victims of abducting monsters, venal media and criminal police officers.
According to you they deserve heaven without confession. Good. But the time hasn't yet come.

Reply 43 22nd October



« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 10:17:36 PM by Aiofe »

Offline Kazcutt

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #80 on: October 30, 2013, 10:11:07 PM »
Stephen carpenters statement just before it's recorded for the pj

DCF:Okay, there is a letter for you, a letter to be handed to you ...

SC: Okay, thanks.

DCF: Before beginning the questioning and explaining the reason why you are here.

SC: Okay.

DCF: You can take a minute to read the contents if you wish..

(CARPENTER reads the letter): Yes, that's fine..


AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #81 on: October 30, 2013, 10:51:18 PM »
It is copied and pasted from your previous post.


Portugal is a State of Law, whether you like it or not. Nobody "pins" murder on nobody here. There's a constitution, a written one (not like in the UK), that guarantees respect to human beings.
You refuse, Benice, to understand what an arguido is, perhaps because it doesn't suit your agenda which is to portrait the McCanns as major victims of abducting monsters, venal media and criminal police officers.
According to you they deserve heaven without confession. Good. But the time hasn't yet come.

Reply 43 22nd October
This was a reply, I wouldn't have used the words "pin murder".

Aiofe

  • Guest
Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #82 on: October 30, 2013, 10:57:24 PM »
This was a reply, I wouldn't have used the words "pin murder".

But you did use those words and I quoted them exactly.

Benita

  • Guest
Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #83 on: October 30, 2013, 11:19:49 PM »
I hope your allies are proud of you (I certainly don't ever see them condemn your xenophobia)

my allies ? haven't a clue what you mean  8-)(--)

Offline sadie

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #84 on: October 31, 2013, 12:03:03 AM »
This is  really uncanny...only  last  night  was  i  sat thinking about  the  past week events ....and was [albeit wishful thinking] expecting the concrete around he  mccs to crack  ...but as yet  this  doesn't  seem likely again.

ararom the beginning  ...nothing  IMO seemed  to fit  ...[at first my heart  went  out  to them] then felt  some  thing was not  right some thing was very wrong.without listing numerous  things  it is as if they knew  from the beginning  they were  in for  the long haul.....an never IMO  acted lile they thought maddie was with a peado or  in  any real  danger ....at one point felt it was a scam ...as in maddie would turn up in a church or some where perfectly  safe...

None of it  ever makes  sense  ...if it was a film you  would think  it too far fetched ..over  the  top..to unbelievable..

but it is real and this  is why last night  trying to make sense of it i actually thought could  it be someone knows who has  her ....and  this  is  why it  is   they get  so so much  protection ....like from the beginnig Gordon  brown was involved it turned  political.....government  top  pr  man [clarence mitchel] at there beck  and call every  time in a  corner  ..it always went there  way  [too many instances to mention]

like the op ...it could be it did happen yet  another  thing changed  to suit....the many many people i have  talke to about this  case  everyone  who have thought the  mccs  innocent all  agree that something is  not right  ...

Now OK  within the  click of a finger the 9 15  sighting doesn't fit  ....ye right if a child was lifted from a bed in a  hurry accectable to be  dressed  in  only  pyjamas  ....

but  comeeee onnnnn  not  when  picked  up from  a creche in the  cold of night carried  in that position[not snuggled up to his  body]  wearing no coat ..................or shoes/slippers

just trying  to make some sense of it all...
I agree about the child wearing so few clothes ... but it wasn't so very cold.  16* at 10pm, so maybe a coupla degrees warmer at 9.15pm, if that is the time they have settled on. 
At 10pm, it was very gusty tho, with the winds heightening.  Maybe not so gusty at 9.15pm?  We dont know the details sufficiently well

But in principle, Xtina, I agree with you on this one

Offline sadie

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #85 on: October 31, 2013, 12:27:02 AM »
Did the McCanns use the "Listening method"? I  thought they didn't use any of the various child care services offered by the Club, and opted instead for the "checking method" of looking in every half hour (i.e. once an hour).
i.e.Once an hour !

There are full statement records showing that visual checks were once every half hour + another which was a listening check.   

Are you starting another myth Aegean?

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #86 on: October 31, 2013, 01:29:13 AM »
But you did use those words and I quoted them exactly.
Once again it was a reply to a poster who used these words in a certain context ? Do kindly find the post to which I reacted.

Aiofe

  • Guest
Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #87 on: October 31, 2013, 05:44:35 AM »
Once again it was a reply to a poster who used these words in a certain context ? Do kindly find the post to which I reacted.

I never said that you would normally use those words; I said you used those words. You denied it and I proved that you did use those words.

My contention is that no justice system is immune from corruption. We know from many cases that the British Police have been corrupt- there is a trial on at the moment. We also know that the Portuguese system has at times been corrupt- Amaral's case.

No system is immune, and chasing the wrong suspect is a common fault of most Justice systems on occasion where police lose sight of the actual character of the evidence and go beyond what is provable because they 'know' what happened.

Aiofe

  • Guest
Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #88 on: October 31, 2013, 05:45:49 AM »
Portugal is a State of Law, whether you like it or not. Nobody "pins" murder on nobody here. There's a constitution, a written one (not like in the UK), that guarantees respect to human beings.
You refuse, Benice, to understand what an arguido is, perhaps because it doesn't suit your agenda which is to portrait the McCanns as major victims of abducting monsters, venal media and criminal police officers.
According to you they deserve heaven without confession. Good. But the time hasn't yet come.

I am quoting this to show that you did use the actual words that I said you did.

An apology is probably due to me.

Aiofe

  • Guest
Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #89 on: October 31, 2013, 05:47:32 AM »
Every country has corruption and stupidity built into its legal system because people are stupid and corrupt. There are ways to attempt to limit it, but it occurs everywhere. Are you telling me that Portugal has the only error free system in the world.

This is my post referring to your post 43 where you use those words. I never refer to 'pinning'.

I stand by the above statement- no legal system (including Portugal's) is immune from corruption and error.