Author Topic: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!  (Read 251488 times)

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Offline colombosstogey

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #61 on: November 01, 2013, 06:33:56 AM »
Old news, but still of current interest. She was tortures in the Portuguese Justice system; Amaral was convicted of perjury and is still a convicted felon.
[/quote

It is pointless in arguing with you, as you have your own agenda.

SHE LIED..........................

L.I.E.D.

Can we move on.

As to Amaral he wasnt on the Maddy case for a long time before it was closed, so are you saying EVERYTHING after is also corrupt...

Anyway I am not prepared to discuss this case because its CLOSED, done zilch gone. She got an extra SEVEN MONTHS for lying .....

LYING.

Enough all ready. Tha
nk you.

Aiofe

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #62 on: November 01, 2013, 06:42:02 AM »
Old news, but still of current interest. She was tortures in the Portuguese Justice system; Amaral was convicted of perjury and is still a convicted felon.
[/quote

It is pointless in arguing with you, as you have your own agenda.

SHE LIED..........................

L.I.E.D.

Can we move on.

As to Amaral he wasnt on the Maddy case for a long time before it was closed, so are you saying EVERYTHING after is also corrupt...

Anyway I am not prepared to discuss this case because its CLOSED, done zilch gone. She got an extra SEVEN MONTHS for lying .....

LYING.

Enough all ready. Tha
nk you.

Birmingham Six Case.

Framed. Beaten in custody. Had to fight an intransigent Justice system (since much reformed). Freed. Exonerated. Compensated.

Offline Benice

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #63 on: November 01, 2013, 09:45:48 AM »
Birmingham Six Case.

Framed. Beaten in custody. Had to fight an intransigent Justice system (since much reformed). Freed. Exonerated. Compensated.

I remember it well.   Some of the actions of some of the PJ have reminded me of those times in the UK when a policeman's word was automatically taken as true.    To know that whatever you claim will be believed is a very powerful position to be in - and can be so easily abused - which it was by a certain section of the UK police force. It was eventually recognised - and changes were made.

IMO some police officers  (and certainly not all) in the PJ were still using their  'old' methods  and thought  - just like some of our policemen thought years ago that the very fact they were PJ Officer made them invincible.   The fact that some police officers have been taken to court and found guilty of various crimes is a sign that things are changing for the better in Portugal. 

IMO the Leonor Cipriano case is an example of the police being believed over 'the accused' at every step of the way - and if the Governor of the prison had not taken the stance she did, then what followed -  which included Amaral and others criminal convictions, would never have happened.       

IMO The PJ still have a long way to go.   We have a way to go too and are not perfect by any means, but IMO we are much further ahead of the PJ in trying to do things properly.  For example it's been a while since we automatically took  a policeman's word over that of a member of the public.    And the numerous 'Rough Justice' cases where innocent people, wrongly convicted,  have been released from prison is also proof of that.

Has anyone in Portugal been found to be wrongly convicted of a major crime and subsequently released?   Just curious. 




The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Kazcutt

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #64 on: November 01, 2013, 09:52:34 AM »
Why is her brother in prison if it wasn't him
Why would she say she did it if she didn't

Offline Benice

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #65 on: November 01, 2013, 10:00:30 AM »
Why is her brother in prison if it wasn't him
Why would she say she did it if she didn't

I would have thought that was obvious.  She did retract her confession - why do you think she did that?
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal


Offline Benice

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #67 on: November 01, 2013, 10:18:38 AM »
Statewatch article: RefNo# 29207
 
Portugal: Report on torture suffered by Leonor Cipriano
Statewatch News Online, May 2008
SOS Prisões and ACED produced a report that they sent to high-ranking Portuguese authorities with competencies in this field concerning the allegations of torture suffered in September 2004 by Leonor Cipriano at the hands of the judicial police in their offices in Faro. She is currently serving a 16-year and eight-month prison sentence in Odemira women's prison, after she was found guilty of killing her eight-year-old daughter Joana, who she reported as having disappeared. Cipriano maintains her innocence and told the author of the report, lawyer Marcos Aragão Correia, who visited her in prison on 8 April 2008, that there was no evidence to prove the allegations, before describing how she was mistreated for two days in order to induce her to sign a confession of this horrendous crime, which she eventually did. Correia also met the director of Odemira prison, Ana Maria Calado, who confirmed suspicions about Cipriano's treatment, noting that she was "shocked about the conditions in which Cipriano entered the prison". ACED argues that it does not have the means to confirm what the situation in terms of the practice of torture by the police in Portugal may be, but calls on the state to comply with its international obligations.

Leonor Cipriano's account

After accepting to meet Correia, Cipriano denied having played any part in the death of her daughter Joana, who disappeared on the evening of 12 September 2004 after she went out to buy some groceries for her mother in a nearby shop in Figueira, near Portimão, as she often did. Upon seeing that her daughter was taking longer than expected, she went to the shop and was told that Joana had been there, but had already left with a few groceries, after which the Guarda Nacional Republicana was called. On 25 September, Leonor Cipriano was placed in preventive detention in Odemira prison, and was taken by judicial police officers to their offices in Faro on the next day. She was upset by the allegations made against her (that she had killed Joana, cut her up and fed her remains to pigs), which she rejected. Meanwhile, and in the absence of any evidence, the five officers involved became aggressive, shouted and unsuccessfully tried to convince her to confess, after which the torture began. Two glass ashtrays were placed on the floor, and Leonor was forced to kneel on them, without being allowed to get up until she confessed. She showed Correia the scars on her knees, still visible four years later. She was then sat on a chair with a green plastic shopping bag over her head, and officers started striking her on the head with a cardboard tube, causing her haemorrhages resulting in blood descending to her eyes, and her hands were struck when she tried to take the bag off her head. She was told that she would not get out of there until she confessed, and was made to stand, sometimes with the bag on her head and sometimes without it, and punched and kicked on the side of her ribs, repeatedly.

The torture lasted for two days, after which she signed a confession, and she was then returned to prison, where her serious conditions led to her being taken to Odemira health centre. She was told by judicial police officers to tell the doctor that she had thrown herself down a flight of stairs in the Faro judicial police headquarters in a suicide attempt, threatening that if she spoke of any aggression, she would be interrogated again and would not survive. Cipriano said she did as they demanded in their presence, but told the prison officers and director of the prison what had happened once they left. The director ordered photographs to be taken of her, and for a legal-medical report to be drawn up as a result of her poor conditions. Leonor Cipriano's brother João was also reportedly tortured and found guilty of the murder, although the prison to which he was taken did not run the same checks to determine whether he had been subjected to an aggression. After they were both found guilty, he wrote to his sister to apologise for the lies he had been forced to tell about her. When Leonor was invited to identify her aggressors by an investigating magistrate in Évora in 2006, she was only able to identify one official who was present and did nothing to prevent the abuses, possibly because she had had a bag over her head for long periods, or due to the time that had passed, or because not all her torturers were among the six officers placed before her.

The prison director

Correia then spoke to Odemira prison director Ana Maria Calado, who confirmed Leonor Cipriano's account, noting how shocked she was about her conditions, with black marks, haematomae and bruising in her face, mainly around her eyes, her head and ribs, mainly on her sides. She assured that the physical marks clearly indicated a violent aggression and not a fall down some stairs, something the legal-medical report also confirmed. She noted that Cipriano's conditions worsened a week after she was tortured, as the blood that had gathered at the height of her brows was so much that it ended up falling over her eyes, leaving her practically blind for almost a month, and the director regrets not having ordered photographs of this period to be taken. She also said that relations between Cipriano and the prison guards and other prisoners were good, and that she did not believe that she had attempted suicide.

Calado expressed her surprise for a number of facts: a) that the judicial police did not take Cipriano to a health centre in Faro to certify that she had fallen down some stairs; b) that the day of her interrogation was chosen during Calado's week of holidays, when she would never have allowed her to be picked up at 6 a.m. without a formal request by the judicial police; and c) that judicial police officers who arrived from Lisbon to investigate the allegations of torture proposed sharing the blame between the judicial police and prison, something she refused. Correia praised the director, describing her as "courageous" and as prizing "values" more highly than "corporate interests".

Conclusion

The report concludes that the testimony of Leonor Cipriano and of the prison director, as well as other available evidence, are convincing in terms of proving that a crime of torture was committed by officers of the Portuguese judicial police. It condemns the use of "medieval methods" to "extract confessions at all cost, even if they are false", as "inadmissible" and as harmful for Portugal's image as an EU member that defends human rights and has a modern legal order and, as such, argues that these practices must be punished in "exemplary" fashion, or the Portuguese citizenry will lose faith in the judicial system.

The report ends with a message from Leonor Cipriano, who was treated as a monster as a result of the horrible nature of the crime she was accused and found guilty of committing:

"I hope that my daughter Joana appears, not only to be with her again, but also to show the world that it was the gentlemen officers of the judicial police who tortured me and who are the real monsters".

Source:
Relatório sobre Tortura de Leonor Cipriano, 8.4.2008, ACED - Associação Contra a Exclusão pelo Desenvolvimento, SOS Prisoes - report (pdf)
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Benice

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #68 on: November 01, 2013, 10:20:25 AM »
Thanks for the links Red, though part of me wishes I hadn't read them!

There was forensic evidence to back up the confession. Strange her body wasn't found though.

Did you read the list of PJ claims the court did not accept.  Including the motive of incest?
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Mr Moderator

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #69 on: November 01, 2013, 10:54:58 AM »
Warning to members in respect of continued false claims that there is no evidence against the Ciprianos.  Anyone knowingly posting FALSE material will have their posting permissions suspended.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 10:59:42 AM by Mr Moderator »

Offline colombosstogey

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #70 on: November 01, 2013, 11:29:56 AM »
Thanks Red. Very interesting. Thats the first time I had read any specifics about the court case. Like Cariad I found the forensics especially informative. I seems to me that there is plenty of evidence of both their guilt. The brother of course confessing and implicating his sister (without torture). So it seems to me that while she may have been beaten (which is always wrong obviously) that is only a minor part of the case. Even with out her confession, there is still plenty evidence to prove her guilt in court.

If anyone has additional evidence which shows her innocence (and her brothers) however I'm happy to read it and re-evaluate my view

I followed this case way back when. The forensics were spot on. The brother confessed.

His sister was beaten there is no aruging against that but it was a stitch up, it would appear she was beaten by fellow prisoners, which is what happens in prison to CHILD MURDERERS and there is evidence to all of this.

This case with Cipriano sadly comes out all the time to simply defame Amaral.

Yes he did wrong he was punished and he has served his sentence.

He was never SACKED over it and went on to be the lead detective on other cases.

The women was found guilty by jury, and that should be the end of it.

I honestly cannot see how this case can possibly be any use to sleuthing who took Maddy or what happened to this child. It just detracts from the case at hand. IMHO of course.

The actual feeling about the childs remains was the child was fed to the pigs, sorry but it was in the newspapers at the time. HORRIBLE.

I just think dragging this case out all the time just devalues all the hard work done to put her and her brother into prison for killing daughter/neice, and does NOTHING to solve the case of Madeiline McCann.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #71 on: November 01, 2013, 01:29:14 PM »
Thanks Red. Very interesting. Thats the first time I had read any specifics about the court case. Like Cariad I found the forensics especially informative. I seems to me that there is plenty of evidence of both their guilt. The brother of course confessing and implicating his sister (without torture). So it seems to me that while she may have been beaten (which is always wrong obviously) that is only a minor part of the case. Even with out her confession, there is still plenty evidence to prove her guilt in court.

If anyone has additional evidence which shows her innocence (and her brothers) however I'm happy to read it and re-evaluate my view


Im interested in this case too. which part of the forensics did you find interesting because the part I read re the DNa said it was not possible to tell whose the blood was...was there any more forensics

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #72 on: November 01, 2013, 01:30:10 PM »
Thanks for the links Red, though part of me wishes I hadn't read them!

There was forensic evidence to back up the confession. Strange her body wasn't found though.

Could you tell me what the forensic evidence was

Aiofe

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #73 on: November 01, 2013, 01:34:51 PM »
To be honest I thought the THREAD was to do with Maddy not Cipriano.

She was an evil witch who killed her daughter.

The funny thing about all this is Amaral was not even the lead detective lol.....

The pair were found guilty by a JURY. The brother confessed.

Can we please move on about this sad case. I child was brutally murdered possibly fed to the pigs.

Its obsfucation and dragged out constantly by pro mccanns to try and disgrace AMARAL WHO like i said wasnt even on the lead case.

ALSO Amaral did do something wrong he tried to protect the men who this women had accused.

HE HAS SERVED HIS SENTENCE can we move on........please. LOL...

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/04/leonor-cipriano-condemned-to-seven-more.html

I thought there were no juries in Portugal- I thought they had a Judge and assessor system.

Offline Carana

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #74 on: November 01, 2013, 01:40:32 PM »
Perhaps a different sub-forum could be created on this forum to disassociate it from the McCann case?