Author Topic: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!  (Read 249723 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Benice

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #390 on: November 09, 2013, 04:14:24 PM »


Thank you for those piccies Sadie.    How anyone in the PJ could describe her home as 'filthy'  - and why they would want to do that, is beyond me.     

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline sadie

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #391 on: November 09, 2013, 05:06:06 PM »

Thank you for those piccies Sadie.    How anyone in the PJ could describe her home as 'filthy'  - and why they would want to do that, is beyond me.     
Also, how anyone could describe Joana as unhappy, malnourished, unloved, badly dressed is beyond me too.

Was that in the Court Records?  Anyone remember?  ...  or was it Amaral who said it?  Or who?

Offline Carana

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #392 on: November 09, 2013, 05:16:51 PM »
Thanks for finding all those pics, Sadie.

Offline sadie

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #393 on: November 09, 2013, 05:53:18 PM »
Please can anyone tell me.  

Was it in Court records, Amarals spiel or somewhere else that all these defamatory things were said about Leonor ?

Offline Carana

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #394 on: November 09, 2013, 06:08:27 PM »
Please can anyone tell me.  

Was it in Court records, Amarals spiel or somewhere else that all these defamatory things were said about Leonor ?

It depends what you are thinking of, Sadie.

There was a media frenzy about the case at the time.

There is also the Supreme Court ruling. The first part hasn't been translated, but the others have. The link below takes you to the final section, but clicking on the links enables you to read the translations of previous sections.
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/07/supreme-court-of-justice-joana-case_15.html

Offline Montclair

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #395 on: November 09, 2013, 07:18:39 PM »
Who took these photos? It doesn't look as if they had been taken by the police during the investigation. They look more like real estate photos.

Offline Carana

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #396 on: November 09, 2013, 08:24:45 PM »
This case seems to have created quite a media storm. Here's an article at random only 2 weeks after her disappearance and after the arrest of the mother and her brother.

What kind of preparation was given to the jury in this case?


MÃE CONFESSA MORTE DA FILHA POR ACIDENTE
Várias horas de interrogatório culminaram na confissão do crime. Primeiro João Cipriano assumiu a participação na ocultação do cadáver da sobrinha, depois a mãe de Joana admitiu a autoria do homicídio, praticado contra a menor, na noite do 12 deste mês, na casa onde residiam na Figueira.
26 Setembro 2004 Nº de votos (0) Comentários (15)
Por:José Carlos Eusébio / João Mendes / M.B.

Uma morte acidental, alegou a mulher perante a juíza de instrução do Tribunal de Portimão, Ana Soares, que decretou a prisão preventiva da mulher e mandou o homem em liberdade com a obrigação de apresentar-se diariamente às autoridades.

As medidas de coacção só foram conhecidas cerca das 03h00 da madrugada de ontem, numa altura em que dezenas de populares revoltados ainda se encontravam concentrados à porta do Tribunal (alguns mantiveram-se aí durante todo o dia).

Segundo apurou o Correio da Manhã, o tio da menina assassinada, João Cipriano, que foi o primeiro a ser ouvido pela juíza (esteve a ser interrogado desde meio da tarde até às 21h30), terá inicialmente admitido o crime, mas depois, quando as declarações foram passadas a escrito, o indivíduo acabou por apontar o dedo à irmã, a mãe de Joana.

“Isso é com a minha irmã” – foi a expressão usada vezes sem conta pelo indivíduo, quando confrontado com questões relacionadas com a forma como se dera o homicídio da criança, remetendo para Leonor Cipriano todas as explicações do caso.

João Cipriano terá apenas reconhecido que ajudou a irmã (a pedido desta) a desfazer-se do corpo de Joana, depois de a menina ter sido morta. Garantiu que o corpo foi colocado num terreno próximo de casa, mas salientou que não sabia ao certo onde, dado que “estava escuro”.

Entretanto, a mãe de Joana, Leonor Cipriano, que foi ouvida entre as 21h30 e cerca da 00h00, veio a confessar o crime da morte da filha. A mulher justificou no entanto que se tratou de um acidente, dizendo que dera uma bofetada na criança e esta batera com a cabeça numa parede, ficando inconsciente.

Leonor Cipriano referiu ter ficado desnorteada e em pânico perante a perspectiva de ter matado a filha, pelo que decidiu enrolar o corpo da menina num pano e metê-lo num saco de plástico. Pediu então a ajuda do irmão para se desfazer do corpo da própria filha, o que, segundo ela, veio a acontecer num sítio nas imediações da casa. Tal como o tio, a mãe de Joana também se terá desculpado com o escuro, bem como com o estado de pânico em que se encontraria, para não saber onde colocou o corpo da filha. Essa é, aliás, a razão dada pelos dois para o facto de as pistas fornecidas até agora à PJ sobre o local onde colocaram o corpo se revelarem completamente falsas.
Ultimamente, a mãe de Joana está a dar a ideia de se encontrar psicologicamente afectada com o caso, verificando-se que muitas vezes “não diz coisa com coisa”, segundo a expressão usada por fonte próxima das investigações.

Após ter ouvido os dois suspeitos, a juíza de instrução criminal recolheu-se para decidir as medidas de coacção a aplicar, chamando à sua presença a mãe e o tio de Joana cerca da 01h30. Foi então comunicado a Leonor Cipriano que ficaria em situação de prisão preventiva e a João Cipriano que sairia em liberdade, mediante termo de identidade e residência e apresentações diárias às autoridades (GNR Silves).

Quer a mãe de Joana quer o tio acabaram por sair do Tribunal de Portimão, por volta das 03h00, em carros da PJ, através da garagem situada nas traseiras do edifício. Devido à presença de dezenas de populares (embora a maior parte estivesse concentrada na porta de entrada), os veículos da PJ abandonaram o local a alta velocidade, com a colaboração do Corpo de Intervenção da PSP.

PORMENORES
DETENÇÃO
As detenções de Leonor Cipriano e do irmão, João, foram feitas na quinta-feira passada pelos inspectores da Secção Regional de Combate ao Banditismo da PJ de Faro, que assumiram as investigações do caso no dia 21, oito dias após o desaparecimento.

VERSÕES
Durante a produção do processo, encetado pela GNR e entregue posteriormente ao Departamento de Investigação Criminal da PJ de Portimão até passar para a Directoria de Faro, a mãe da criança insistiu na versão do rapto. Durante os interrogatórios revelou ter visto a filha pela última vez momentos antes dela sair para fazer compras num café da aldeia, cerca das 19h00 de dia 12.

DINHEIRO
A intenção de extorquir uma pequena quantia de dinheiro que Joana possuía terá provocado a discussão que opôs a menor aos dois familiares. Mãe e tio exigiram à menina que lhes entregasse as suas parcas economias, feitas com dinheiro que familiares lhe davam, mas a criança resistiu. A PJ revelou no dia das detenções que as agressões contra Joana tinham como intenção matá-la. Sangue encontrado na casa permitiram descobrir o crime.

DOR E REVOLTA POPULAR ÀS PORTAS DO TRIBUNAL
Se pudessem faziam justiça com as próprias mãos. Concentrados à porta do tribunal de Portimão, centenas de populares revoltados contra os irmãos Cipriano deixaram o coração falar mais alto e ditaram ali mesmo uma sentença antecipada para o crime “macabro” praticado contra a menor.

“Merecem a morte”, foi o veredicto unânime. À hora em que Leonor e o irmão confessavam à juíza ter as mãos manchadas de sangue, já todos sabiam que Joana não voltaria a percorrer as ruas da Figueira, mas na memória tinham ainda o sorriso incauto da menina que apareceu nos rectângulos de papel espalhados pela aldeia, onde se escreveram apelos para a trazer de volta.

Legitimados pela dor que “aquela mãe malvada” nunca revelou, mas vencidos pelo cansaço da espera, os populares acabariam por calar os gritos de vingança, mas permaneceram vigilantes até à hora em que as portas do tribunal se abriram de novo para deixar passar os “assassinos”.

Porque a madrugada já dera tréguas à revolta, as palavras não saíram para repetir os sentimentos de ódio atirados contra Leonor e João durante a a tarde, mas as dezenas de homens e mulheres que resistiram junto ao edifício até ser conhecida a decisão, olharam por cima do ombro enquanto regressavam a casa: tinham a sensação de que havia um criminoso à solta.

SEGURANÇA ESPECIAL NA CADEIA DE ODEMIRA
Leonor Cipriano passou o resto da madrugada de ontem nos calabouços da PJ de Faro e foi depois levada para o Estabelecimento Prisional de Odemira, a única cadeia feminina no Sul do País, onde irá cumprir a prisão preventiva. Será alvo de medidas especiais de segurança, não devendo ser colocada em convívio com as restantes reclusas.
Tal situação devesse ao facto de, nas cadeias femininas, tal como nas masculinas, existir um código de honra entre os detidos, segundo o qual suspeitos de crimes de natureza vária sobre crianças são mal aceites pelos outros reclusos.

Uma fonte da Direcção-Geral dos Serviços Prisionais indicou ao CM que “estão a ser tomadas as medidas necessárias e adequadas para uma situação destas”, escusando-se a dar pormenores.

A cadeia feminina de Odemira tem uma lotação para 56 reclusas mas actualmente conta com 71, das quais 23 em regime de prisão preventiva e 48 a cumprir pena efectiva. A sua taxa de ocupação é de 126,8 por cento. O regime de segurança é misto e tem um corpo de guarda de 34 elementos.
http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/noticia.aspx?channelid=00000009-0000-0000-0000-000000000009&contentid=00132134-3333-3333-3333-000000132134


Google
MOTHER DAUGHTER CONFESSES DEATH BY ACCIDENT
Several hours of interrogation led to the confession of the crime. First John Cipriano took participation in the concealment of the corpse of her niece, after the mother of Joan admitted responsibility for the murder, committed against a minor, on the night of 12th of this month, the house where they lived in Figueira.
September 26, 2004 No. of votes (0) Comments (15)
By: Jose Carlos Eusebio / John Mendes / MB


An accidental death, claimed the woman before the judge of instruction of the Court of Portimão, Ana Soares, who ordered the arrest of the woman and told the man in freedom with the obligation to report daily to the authorities.
The coercive measures were only known approximately 3:00 a.m. in the morning yesterday, at a time when dozens of popular revolt were still concentrated at the door of the Court (some remained there throughout the day).
According to BBC News has learned, the murdered girl's uncle, João Cipriano, who was the first to be heard by the judge (he was being interrogated since mid-afternoon until 21:30), will initially admitted the crime but later, when the statements were recorded in written form, the individual just by pointing his finger to his sister, the mother of Joan.
"It is with my sister" - the phrase was used again and again by the individual, when confronted with issues related to how the murder had taken the child, referring to all the explanations Leonor Cipriano case.
João Cipriano has only acknowledged that he helped his sister (upon request) to get rid of the body of Joan, after the girl was dead. Ensured that the body was placed in a field close to home, but stressed that he was not sure where, because "it was dark."
However, Joan's mother, Leonor Cipriano, who was heard between 21:30 and about 00:00, came to confess to the murder of their daughter's death. The woman however justified that it was an accident, saying he had given a slap on the child and this had struck his head on a wall, becoming unconscious.
Leonor Cipriano said to have been bewildered and panicked at the prospect of killing his daughter, decided to wrap the girl's body in a cloth and put him in a plastic bag. He then asked the help of his brother to dispose of the body's own daughter, which she said came to pass at a site near the house. Like his uncle, the mother of Joan will also apologized to the dark, as well as the state of panic that would find, not knowing where to put her daughter's body. This is indeed the reason given by both to the fact that the clues provided so far to the PJ put on where the body may prove completely false.
Lately, the mother of Joan is giving the idea of ​​finding psychologically affected by the case and there is often "does not say anything to anything," according to the expression used by a source close to the investigation.
After hearing the two suspects, Judge of Criminal retired to decide on enforcement measures to be applied to your presence by calling his mother and uncle of Joana about 1:30 a.m.. It was then communicated to Leonor Cipriano who would be in custody and João Cipriano that would free by the end of identity and residence and daily presentations to the authorities (GNR Silves).
Whether the mother of Joan's uncle wants to eventually leave the Court of Portimão, around 3:00 a.m. in the PJ car through the garage located behind the building. Due to the presence of dozens of popular (although most were concentrated in the doorway), PJ vehicles left the scene at high speed, with the collaboration of the Body of Intervention PSP.
DETAILS
DETENTION
The arrests of Leonor Cipriano and her brother, John, were made on Thursday last by the inspectors of the Regional Chamber to Combat Gangsterism PJ of Faro, who took over the investigation of the case in 21 days, eight days after the disappearance.
VERSIONS
During the production process, initiated by the GNR and later handed over to the Criminal Investigation Department of the PJ of Portimão to go to the Directory of Faro, the child's mother insisted on the release of kidnapping. During interrogation revealed that he had seen her daughter last moments before her morning's shopping in a cafe in the village, about 19.00 for 12 days.
MONEY
The intent to extort a small amount of money that Joan had the discussion that has provoked the least opposed to the two families. Mother and uncle to the girl demanded that they surrender their meager savings, made with money that relatives gave them, but the child resisted. The PJ revealed on the day of the arrests that the attacks against Joan had intended to kill her. Blood found in the house led to discover the crime.
PAIN AND DOORS TO POPULAR REVOLT OF THE COURT
If you could have made the law into their own hands. Concentrates on the door of the court of Portimão, hundreds of popular revolt against the brothers Cipriano left heart speak louder and dictated a sentence right there early for the crime "macabre" committed against the minor.
"They deserve death," was the unanimous verdict. At the hour when Leonor and her brother confessed to the judge have their hands stained with blood, as everyone knew that Joan would never walk the streets of Figueira, but the memory still had the smile of careless girl who appeared in rectangles of paper scattered around the village , where he wrote pleas to bring back.
Legitimated by the pain that "one bad mother" never revealed, but overcome by weariness of waiting, the popular eventually silence the cries of vengeance, but remain vigilant until the time that the doors of the court opened again to pass the " murderers. "
Because the dawn has given respite to revolt, no words left to repeat the sentiments of hatred thrown against pa Leonor and João during late, but the dozens of men and women who stood beside the building to be known to the decision, looked over shoulder while returning home, had the feeling that there was a criminal on the loose.
SPECIAL SECURITY CHAIN ​​OF ODEMIRA
Leonor Cipriano spent the rest of the morning yesterday in the dungeons of the PJ in Faro and was then taken to the Prison Odemira, the only female chain in the South of the country where you will comply with the remand. Will be subject to special security measures should not be placed in contact with the other inmates.
This situation should the fact that, in women's jails, as in men, there is a code of honor among those detained, according to which criminal suspects of various kinds of children are poorly accepted by the other inmates.

A source from the Directorate-General of the Prison Service told the CM that "being taken measures necessary and appropriate to a situation of" excuses to give details.
The chain Odemira female has a capacity for 56 inmates but currently has 71, 23 of them under the custody and 48 serving sentences effectively. Its occupancy rate is 126.8 percent. The security system is mixed and has a body guard of 34 elements.

Offline sadie

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #397 on: November 09, 2013, 08:52:57 PM »
Please can anyone tell me.  

Was it in Court records, Amarals spiel or somewhere else that all these defamatory things were said about Leonor ?

Cheers Carana.  Will go read.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #398 on: November 09, 2013, 09:00:04 PM »
Yes, some fair haired girls are fair in the summer because of the suns bleaching effect and darker in the winter.  Joana was taken on Sept 12th IIRC.  All that summer sun to have bleached her hair.


I have it straight from Leonors lawyer, Marcos Aragao Correira, that Joana is a blonde.  He corrected me, when I said she was brown or dark haired.... cant remember which I said     Of course to the generally Latin coloured PT peeps with their dark hair and flashing black eyes, their perception of blonde and ours maybe a tadge different.  But undoubtedly Joana was very fair haired, maybe only in the summer months ... or maybe as Davel says photographs often show fair haired people as dark haired



I think Leonor dyes her hair black cos I have seen a photo of her with brown hair, or maybe it is the sun changing things again?

Sorry last pic of joana at 8 yrs old was dark haired...which doesnt help your theory that she was another fair haired blonde girl abducted by the same person etc etc.....as the other two, ie carolina santos which was never even an attempted abduction, just a threat by a madman troublemaker who argued with everyone in the area  and madeleine mccann for which there is no evidence of one....never mind

Offline sadie

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #399 on: November 09, 2013, 09:06:53 PM »
This case seems to have created quite a media storm. Here's an article at random only 2 weeks after her disappearance and after the arrest of the mother and her brother.

What kind of preparation was given to the jury in this case?


MÃE CONFESSA MORTE DA FILHA POR ACIDENTE

/SNIP/-

Google
MOTHER DAUGHTER CONFESSES DEATH BY ACCIDENT

/SNIP/'

SPECIAL SECURITY CHAIN ​​OF ODEMIRA
Leonor Cipriano spent the rest of the morning yesterday in the dungeons of the PJ in Faro and was then taken to the Prison Odemira, the only female chain in the South of the country where you will comply with the remand. Will be subject to special security measures should not be placed in contact with the other inmates.
This situation should the fact that, in women's jails, as in men, there is a code of honor among those detained, according to which criminal suspects of various kinds of children are poorly accepted by the other inmates.

A source from the Directorate-General of the Prison Service told the CM that "being taken measures necessary and appropriate to a situation of" excuses to give details.
The chain Odemira female has a capacity for 56 inmates but currently has 71, 23 of them under the custody and 48 serving sentences effectively. Its occupancy rate is 126.8 percent. The security system is mixed and has a body guard of 34 elements.


So Leonor was kept seperate from the other inmates at Odemira Prison, yet the PJ tried to persuade Dr Ana, prison Governor to say that she was beaten up by the inmates.  8)-))) >@@(*&)

Offline Anna

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #400 on: November 09, 2013, 09:11:06 PM »
Sorry last pic of joana at 8 yrs old was dark haired...which doesnt help your theory that she was another fair haired blonde girl abducted by the same person etc etc.....as the other two, ie carolina santos which was never even an attempted abduction, just a threat by a madman troublemaker who argued with everyone in the area  and madeleine mccann for which there is no evidence of one....never mind

Thank you RB . How can anyone hurt a child. Who is the man?
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline sadie

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #401 on: November 09, 2013, 09:18:56 PM »
Several hours of interrogation led to the confession of the crime. First John Cipriano took participation in the concealment of the corpse of her niece, after the mother of Joan admitted responsibility for the murder, committed against a minor, on the night of 12th of this month, the house where they lived in Figueira.
September 26, 2004 No. of votes (0) Comments (15)
By: Jose Carlos Eusebio / John Mendes / MB


An accidental death, claimed the woman before the judge of instruction of the Court of Portimão, Ana Soares, who ordered the arrest of the woman and told the man in freedom with the obligation to report daily to the authorities.
The coercive measures were only known approximately 3:00 a.m. in the morning yesterday, at a time when dozens of popular revolt were still concentrated at the door of the Court (some remained there throughout the day).
According to BBC News has learned, the murdered girl's uncle, João Cipriano, who was the first to be heard by the judge (he was being interrogated since mid-afternoon until 21:30), will initially admitted the crime but later, when the statements were recorded in written form, the individual just by pointing his finger to his sister, the mother of Joan.
"It is with my sister" - the phrase was used again and again by the individual, when confronted with issues related to how the murder had taken the child, referring to all the explanations Leonor Cipriano case.
João Cipriano has only acknowledged that he helped his sister (upon request) to get rid of the body of Joan, after the girl was dead. Ensured that the body was placed in a field close to home, but stressed that he was not sure where, because "it was dark."
However, Joan's mother, Leonor Cipriano, who was heard between 21:30 and about 00:00, came to confess to the murder of their daughter's death. The woman however justified that it was an accident, saying he had given a slap on the child and this had struck his head on a wall, becoming unconscious.
Leonor Cipriano said to have been bewildered and panicked at the prospect of killing his daughter, decided to wrap the girl's body in a cloth and put him in a plastic bag. He then asked the help of his brother to dispose of the body's own daughter, which she said came to pass at a site near the house. Like his uncle, the mother of Joan will also apologized to the dark, as well as the state of panic that would find, not knowing where to put her daughter's body. This is indeed the reason given by both to the fact that the clues provided so far to the PJ put on where the body may prove completely false.
Lately, the mother of Joan is giving the idea of ​​finding psychologically affected by the case and there is often "does not say anything to anything," according to the expression used by a source close to the investigation.
After hearing the two suspects, Judge of Criminal retired to decide on enforcement measures to be applied to your presence by calling his mother and uncle of Joana about 1:30 a.m.. It was then communicated to Leonor Cipriano who would be in custody and João Cipriano that would free by the end of identity and residence and daily presentations to the authorities (GNR Silves).
Whether the mother of Joan's uncle wants to eventually leave the Court of Portimão, around 3:00 a.m. in the PJ car through the garage located behind the building. Due to the presence of dozens of popular (although most were concentrated in the doorway), PJ vehicles left the scene at high speed, with the collaboration of the Body of Intervention PSP.
DETAILS
DETENTION
The arrests of Leonor Cipriano and her brother, John, were made on Thursday last by the inspectors of the Regional Chamber to Combat Gangsterism PJ of Faro, who took over the investigation of the case in 21 days, eight days after the disappearance.
VERSIONS
During the production process, initiated by the GNR and later handed over to the Criminal Investigation Department of the PJ of Portimão to go to the Directory of Faro, the child's mother insisted on the release of kidnapping. During interrogation revealed that he had seen her daughter last moments before her morning's shopping in a cafe in the village, about 19.00 for 12 days.
MONEY
The intent to extort a small amount of money that Joan had the discussion that has provoked the least opposed to the two families. Mother and uncle to the girl demanded that they surrender their meager savings, made with money that relatives gave them, but the child resisted. The PJ revealed on the day of the arrests that the attacks against Joan had intended to kill her. Blood found in the house led to discover the crime.
PAIN AND DOORS TO POPULAR REVOLT OF THE COURT
If you could have made the law into their own hands. Concentrates on the door of the court of Portimão, hundreds of popular revolt against the brothers Cipriano left heart speak louder and dictated a sentence right there early for the crime "macabre" committed against the minor.
"They deserve death," was the unanimous verdict. At the hour when Leonor and her brother confessed to the judge have their hands stained with blood, as everyone knew that Joan would never walk the streets of Figueira, but the memory still had the smile of careless girl who appeared in rectangles of paper scattered around the village , where he wrote pleas to bring back.
Legitimated by the pain that "one bad mother" never revealed, but overcome by weariness of waiting, the popular eventually silence the cries of vengeance, but remain vigilant until the time that the doors of the court opened again to pass the " murderers. "
Because the dawn has given respite to revolt, no words left to repeat the sentiments of hatred thrown against pa Leonor and João during late, but the dozens of men and women who stood beside the building to be known to the decision, looked over shoulder while returning home, had the feeling that there was a criminal on the loose.


All this stuff came after two days of torture to Leonor.  Anyone will say anything they are told to after they have been broken by torture.  Anything to keep the dreaded pain away.  Tortured out evidence is NOT evidence at all

This is the grossest Miscarriage of Justice that I have ever heard about.


As lengthy brutal torture was used, especially against Leonor, nothing about this case can be believed.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #402 on: November 09, 2013, 09:22:57 PM »
Thank you RB . How can anyone hurt a child. Who is the man?

they do unfortunately and more than not someone in the family or circle of friends is responsible for younger children, older ones are often runaways as much if not more so in fact

all psychologically damaged and or other reasons for such acts.....part of the tapestry of our sad bad corners of the world

Ps not sure not sure what man you are talking about, if its sadies suspect.. ask her



« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 09:29:19 PM by Redblossom »

Offline sadie

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #403 on: November 09, 2013, 10:07:07 PM »
I dont deny that Joana looks med/dark haired in some pictures.  Her hair must be of the type that bleaches in the sun of summer and darkens in the winter.

When I suggested to Marcos Aragao Correira, the man who was Leonors lawyer in the torture case, that Joana had med/dark hair, he was most adamant that she was fair haired.  He knew the family and got it straight from the 'horses mouth'

As I said before, with the predominance of latin type people (dark hair and flashing black eyes) maybe their take on blond / fair haired is different from ours?  And it is true that photographs sometimes make fair haired people look dark haired.


.... removed overweighted unrelated article ...

Offline Anna

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #404 on: November 10, 2013, 05:19:57 PM »
her hair was slightly fairer when younger, but when she went missing and or killed her hair was dark brown...obvious from all the latter photos....so not a blonde girl.....by any stretch
The wrong exposure setting on a camera or a flash unit too close to the subject can make hair and skin appear lighter
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato