Author Topic: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!  (Read 249548 times)

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Offline Montclair

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #465 on: November 11, 2013, 09:07:56 AM »
We have had some undoubtedly, but that does NOT make the injustices in the Leonor Cipriano case any less obvious and wrong




Do you believe in Torture, Montclair?  Where there is a difficult to solve case, is it OK?

IMO, Leonor was obviously beaten up by her fellow prisoners and the director at the prison, of course, wanted to cover it up because she failed to protect her. Marinho e Pinto came up with some digital photos of Leonor covered in bruises. These type of photos are normally not allowed as evidence because they can be altered easily but, since MP asked to be an "assistente" in the case, he could not be questioned about the source of these photographs. Very convenient! BTW, when is Marinho e Pinto going to testify at the libel trial?

Just because I believe that Leonor and João Cipriano are guilty of murdering Joana doesn't mean that I approve of torture.

Offline Angelo222

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #466 on: November 11, 2013, 09:17:55 AM »
Leonor Ciprianos actions the night that Joana disappeared says it all in my opinion.  She never went out at all to look for her.  Instead she stayed in the house and 'cleaned up'.

Neither Leonor or Joano contacted the police.  Leonor made the pathetic excuse that she had no credit on her mobile phone.  So what??  Emergency calls to 112 are free!!

What does apologist Sadie say about that??
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 09:20:05 AM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Online Eleanor

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #467 on: November 11, 2013, 09:29:48 AM »

Leonor Ciprino had other small children in the house.  Was she supposed to leave them alone while she searched?

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #468 on: November 11, 2013, 09:34:13 AM »
the man was a violent psycho...supply the evidence

There you go...from the supreme court ruling.....

b) the arguido AA [João Cipriano] has never held a regular job or residence, living inside a vehicle or at his siblings’ house, surviving on occasional jobs that he performed on diverse locations;

c) the arguido AA manifests despise for human life – a result of a poor social adjustment and affective coldness – and has anti-social/psychopathic tendencies with a difficulty to control his impulses, which leads him to be aggressive, trying to solve conflicts through said aggressiveness, feeling no remorse for the consequences of the actions that he thus performs, despising other people’s rights, wishes or feelings;

d) through a ruling that has been validated in court, and given on 10.11.1993, arguido AA was condemned to a 4-year prison sentence over the practice, on 2.10.1992, of a crime of attempted homicide) Saidruling includes that the arguido was convinced, by a third party that lived with one of the arguido’s sisters (GG) to take the life of another person who had left him blind, in exchange for 20.000$00 and a motorbike (…);[/b]

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #469 on: November 11, 2013, 09:35:00 AM »
Leonor Ciprino had other small children in the house.  Was she supposed to leave them alone while she searched?

I refer you to icabodcrane at 12:25:58 AM on page 30, today.

Offline Angelo222

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #470 on: November 11, 2013, 09:43:50 AM »
There you go...from the supreme court ruling.....

b) the arguido AA [João Cipriano] has never held a regular job or residence, living inside a vehicle or at his siblings’ house, surviving on occasional jobs that he performed on diverse locations;

c) the arguido AA manifests despise for human life – a result of a poor social adjustment and affective coldness – and has anti-social/psychopathic tendencies with a difficulty to control his impulses, which leads him to be aggressive, trying to solve conflicts through said aggressiveness, feeling no remorse for the consequences of the actions that he thus performs, despising other people’s rights, wishes or feelings;

d) through a ruling that has been validated in court, and given on 10.11.1993, arguido AA was condemned to a 4-year prison sentence over the practice, on 2.10.1992, of a crime of attempted homicide) Saidruling includes that the arguido was convinced, by a third party that lived with one of the arguido’s sisters (GG) to take the life of another person who had left him blind, in exchange for 20.000$00 and a motorbike (…);[/b]


Joano Cipriano is the classic psychopath.  He would be very capable of committing murder without the slightest pang of sympathy for his victim.  He and Jeremy Bamber have much in common.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Angelo222

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #471 on: November 11, 2013, 09:50:21 AM »
Sadie

You look at a few snapshots and dictate that this murdered child had a  'caring family and a lovely life' 

Let's look at that 'caring family'  shall we  ?  ...  and realisticly  judge how  'lovely'  that child's short life will have been

The mother dumped how many of her   kids  ?   (  onto the various men who fathered them  )  ...  never to see them again 

The uncle,  who was put in prison for leaving a man blind  ...  have failed to murder him for money  ?

This  'caring'  family  who,  for some God forsaken reason,   you defend,  are s..m

That poor little girl,  who you insist is,   'almost certainly'  alive,  lived a sad life at the mercy of sadists who eventually ended her short life in a savage way

By the way, you also insisted that the man Jane Tanner saw was  'almost certainly'  the abductor too,  didn't you  ..  over and over again

Your judgment is horribly skewed

Sadie also claims that every sighting of a little girl whether it be Morocco, Brussels, Amsterdam or wherever is that of Madeleine McCann.  She has effectively rubbished any credibility she ever had by doing so.

As for Tannerman, well that speaks for itself now that we know the truth.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #472 on: November 11, 2013, 10:00:50 AM »
IMO, Leonor was obviously beaten up by her fellow prisoners and the director at the prison, of course, wanted to cover it up because she failed to protect her. Marinho e Pinto came up with some digital photos of Leonor covered in bruises. These type of photos are normally not allowed as evidence because they can be altered easily but, since MP asked to be an "assistente" in the case, he could not be questioned about the source of these photographs. Very convenient! BTW, when is Marinho e Pinto going to testify at the libel trial?

Just because I believe that Leonor and João Cipriano are guilty of murdering Joana doesn't mean that I approve of torture.

if that is true why did the pj say she fell down the stairs at the police station

Offline Benice

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #473 on: November 11, 2013, 10:04:46 AM »
IMO, Leonor was obviously beaten up by her fellow prisoners and the director at the prison, of course, wanted to cover it up because she failed to protect her. Marinho e Pinto came up with some digital photos of Leonor covered in bruises. These type of photos are normally not allowed as evidence because they can be altered easily but, since MP asked to be an "assistente" in the case, he could not be questioned about the source of these photographs. Very convenient! BTW, when is Marinho e Pinto going to testify at the libel trial?

Just because I believe that Leonor and João Cipriano are guilty of murdering Joana doesn't mean that I approve of torture.


So you think the Prison Governor and Medical experts who examined LC were liars then?

In that case why hasn't anyone prosecuted the 'Governor' for perjury as it would appear it was mainly as a result of her testimony that torture was proved and two PJ officers were convicted of criminal actions?   

If she lied surely she is ultimately responsible for wrong convictions - and yet as far as I know  - no action has ever been taken against her.    Has Amaral ever claimed or even hinted that he now has a criminal record because the Director of the Prison  is corrupt and committed perjury to cover her own back?  I doubt it.

IMO the truth is she refused to be part of certain members of the PJ's  'cover up' plan regarding LC's terrible injuries.   

Good for her - she is a credit to her profession.  Portugal should be proud of her - not trying to blacken her name in the way some are now attempting to do.








The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Luz

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #474 on: November 11, 2013, 10:13:07 AM »
I’m not surprised that some of you keep defending Leonor Cipriano. After all between Leonor and Mrs. McCann there are more similarities than differences.

Madeleine was the babysitter for her twin siblings while her parents went out at night, and according to Kate, she was a “little mother”. Joana was also the only one that took care of her younger siblings, preparing food, cleaning the house and even had to beg money from the neighbours to buy food for the babies and cigarettes for her mother – her case had been denounced to the Minors Protection Commission by neighbours and teachers, five months before she disappeared.

Like the McCann, Leonor also appealed to the Media, crying out that her daughter had been “taken” – bad luck that her brother (and later herself) confessed to the murder describing every sinister detail of it, which was backed up by forensics.

Like in the McCann case, also with Cipriano, the PJ took too long to follow the homicide hypothesis, deluded by the abduction argument presented by the mother.

Like in the McCann case, also Leonor Cipriano changed her version of events numerous times: first she said it was abduction, then she confessed to have participated in the murder with her brother, later on she affirmed that it was her brother that had convinced her to sell the girl to a childless couple and the “business” had gone wrong, with João Cipriano killing the child.

Like the McCann, Leonor was also advised to turn up against the PJ, by making up a fake torture accusation – curiously enough by the man that had confessed on several interviews that he was out to get Amaral, paid by Metodo 3. The Trial that condemned 2 PJs was based on photoshoped photos that the President of the Bar, Marinho Pinto, had used in his chronicles in a newspaper. The testimony of the doctor that treated Leonor more than a week after she had been in the PJ headquarters was not accepted. Must add that an inmate's testimony that swore she had been beaten inside the prison was also not accepted by the Court.

The only difference between the McCann and the Cipriano is that Leonor is poor and the McCann managed to get money from donors to make them wealthy.

Leonor was a mother of 6 by 5 different fathers. She abandoned her older daughter, now 23 y.o., when she was 11 months old. Abandoned her next son (now19 y.o.) when he was 2 months old. The 4th was left with relatives as soon as she was born. The only children she kept were Joana and 2 younger children by her last partner.
Joana’s teacher said she was a sad kid and that on her first day in school she arrived late and alone. But her troubles had begun earlier. When Joana was 5 months old, and later when she was 3 y.o. she was sent to her father. In September 2003, her mother left her for 3 weeks with an alcoholic couple, in a miserable house where also lived a person with an infect-contagious disease. But Joana always went back to her mother to take care of her and of the babies.

According to the Public Ministry accusation, at the beginning of the night in September 2004, after having gone to a café to buy milk and tuna, the little girl surprised her mother and uncle in an incestuous sexual act, on the living room sofa, and menaced she was going to tell to her stepfather. Immediately Leonor and João banged her head several times against a wall, until they killed her.

Afterwards, they slaughtered her body in order to better dispose of the cadaver. The several parts were put into plastic bags, which were for several days inside a freezer. After this the Public Ministry doesn’t risk to point a place to where the body was taken (after confessing and accepting to cooperate with the PJ, the arguidos gave more than 20 false leads about the whereabouts of the body).

Face and palm prints were found on the walls, and on the door sill, where by the position of the palm prints it is admissible that it was an attempt of the child to escape while being beaten to death (even though Leonor had tried to clean the house with petrol).

When in 2010 her lawyer wanted to request her being paroled, her family refused to accept her back - Her younger children’s aunt even requested that the children had their names officially changed in order to exclude the Cipriano surname, since it was a looked at as a stigma.

Leonor did in fact fake a suicide attempt by jumping down the stairs in the PJ headquarters, but on the 13th of October (not the 14th when she alleged the torture occurred), when her lawyer was in the interrogation room and she was coming from the rest room where she had requested to go. Of course she was blocked by the officer that was accompanying her back into the room and the only injuries she suffered were bruised knees.

In February 2013, the Court of Faro tried Leonor and condemned her for having lied about her alleged “torture”. She was sentenced for another 7 months to add to her previous 16 years as a murderer.

I hope that the McCann remaining children never feel the way Leonor’s children feel.

Some sources:
Revista Visão nº657, 6 de Outubro 2005
http://www.dn.pt/inicio/portugal/interior.aspx?content_id=1564608&seccao=Sul&page=1
http://expresso.sapo.pt/caso-joana-leonor-cipriano-admite-tese-da-venda=f492359
http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/leonor-cipriano-condenada-a-sete-meses-de-prisao-por-falsas-declaracoes-1589891
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 10:22:42 AM by Luz »

Offline Angelo222

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #475 on: November 11, 2013, 10:21:48 AM »
Let's face it the court accepted as proven that Leonor was beaten by the PJ before being returned to her prison cell.  For you to deny this Luz makes you look just as silly as Sadie.   Leonor was also probably set upon by fellow inmates such was the dreadful nature of her crime.  As for the alleged falling down stairs we will never know the truth of this.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 10:25:18 AM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Luz

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #476 on: November 11, 2013, 10:23:56 AM »
Let's face it the court accepted as proven that Leonor was beaten by the PJ before being returned to her prison cell.  She was also probably set upon by fellow inmates such was the dreadful nature if her crime.

The Court accepted she had been beaten, but by unknown.

Online Eleanor

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #477 on: November 11, 2013, 10:24:17 AM »
Wasn't the confession signed on the 12th of October?

Offline Luz

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #478 on: November 11, 2013, 10:27:15 AM »
During the Court Trial, the lawyer, when he saw how loose his case was, even tried to allege the PJ had welcomed strangers inside their facilities to beat the woman....

Online Eleanor

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #479 on: November 11, 2013, 10:38:22 AM »
During the Court Trial, the lawyer, when he saw how loose his case was, even tried to allege the PJ had welcomed strangers inside their facilities to beat the woman....

Ah, those PJ Officers sent down from Lisbon so they wouldn't be recognized?