The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!

[stephen25000]

I couldn't be bothered with you last night Stephen as once again you refused to answer the question I asked but wanted your question answered.. this morning I willla nnswer both of them.

You wright LIAR in capital letters...have you never told a lie... I have and so has everyone else..so we all lie so its abit childish to be so pedantic.

secondly...do I support a convicted murderer...you mean like Barry geeorge. If shes guilty then she deserves to rot in hell...but if she is innocent I support her.


 a regards the 2012 judgement it was never superseded as you claim..you were and are wrong. It is still accepted by the courts that Leonor WAS tortured whilst in police custody.

As Cipriano's testimony was used in prosecuting members of the PJ . their conviction must remain in doubt, but time will tell on that. She is a repeated liar and murderer, and nothing you can say will get away from that.

Now remind me of what happened to George's conviction.

What physical proof has been offered Cipriano was tortured by members of the PJ ?

If it was conjecture, a conviction should never have been given.

Would you trust a repeated liar such as Cipriano ?

[Luz]

Indeed.    And also the implements ie. saw and knives which it was alleged were used, but were never found.

Why would LC refuse to give that information once she had confessed to murdering her daughter.  What would be the point of doing that?  There is none.  The confession meant it was 'game over' anyway -  so what did she have to gain?    It simply makes no sense to endure such terrible torture at that stage in the proceedings.       

What does make sense IMO is that no matter how much she was tortured  - if there was no murder and Joana had been abducted - then there was no way she could tell them where the body was or what happened to the saw and knife  - because there was no body and there was no saw and knives.   

             

The child was dismembered/quartered with an ax, according to João Cipriano.

If she was abducted why did he describe the way he dismembered her and assembled the pieces in plastic bags in order to put them in a deep freezer?

The most revealing was his answer when asked about the sperm that was found in a child's underpanties in the house, he responded: «I didn't hurt her, I just killed her».

[Luz]

What I find surprising is that the same people that insist on considering the rightfulness of the Trial that convicted Amaral are not happy about the Trial that convicted the evil Leonor and her brother.

Even after she was convicted for having lied about being tortured, those same people continue to insist that the only people that were convicted, not for torture, but for not reporting a torture that never occurred, are still guilty.

It's amazing how people are absolutely convinced that a murderer that was used by an opportunistic lawyer, like Aragão, that now chose to go to Brazil to develop his spiritist tendencies, and a President of the Bar that was mad at the PJ and the Magistrates for having allowed that his beloved Socialist Party had been stained with several cases, from paedophilia to high international corruption when in Government, is more truthful than the witnesses that finally could be heard to prove that she was a liar.

[Eleanor]

The child was dismembered/quartered with an ax, according to João Cipriano.

If she was abducted why did he describe the way he dismembered her and assembled the pieces in plastic bags in order to put them in a deep freezer?

The most revealing was his answer when asked about the sperm that was found in a child's underpanties in the house, he responded: «I didn't hurt her, I just killed her».

It wasn't Joao's sperm, and there was an explanation which was accepted.  You forgot to mention that.

[sadie]

As Cipriano's testimony was used in prosecuting members of the PJ . their conviction must remain in doubt, but time will tell on that. She is a repeated liar and murderer, and nothing you can say will get away from that.

Now remind me of what happened to George's conviction.

What physical proof has been offered Cipriano was tortured by members of the PJ ?

If it was conjecture, a conviction should never have been given.

Would you trust a repeated liar such as Cipriano ?

I would trust Leonor Cipriano anytime over Amaral tbh.

However, having broken to torture, she is their puppet now .... unless she is extra-ordinarily strong


As for physical proof?  What do you expect more than  the copious proof given with witness statements and photographs?  Do you expect the bruises to still be there? 

The witnesses included the very brave Dr Anna C****   prison Governor.


Why are you so keen to always promote Amaral, Stephen?  He is a Court proven liar.  He called the Rottweilers in., even IF he didn't take part in the torture itself


How about the rights of a simple PT couple Leonor Cipriano and her brother Joao?   Are you unable to see the flaws in this case?  Can you NOT see the injustices of running a case where extreme torture was used?


where are your basic human instincts?

[stephen25000]

I would trust Leonor Cipriano anytime over Amaral tbh.

However, having broken to torture, she is their puppet now .... unless she is extra-ordinarily strong


As for physical proof?  What do you expect more than  the copious proof given with witness statements and photographs?  Do you expect the bruises to still be there? 

The witnesses included the very brave Dr Anna C****   prison Governor.


Why are you so keen to always promote Amaral, Stephen?  He is a Court proven liar.  He called the Rottweilers in., even if he didn't take part in the torture itself


How about the rights of a simple PT couple Leonor Cipriano and her brother Joao?   Are you unable to see the flaws in this case?  Can you NOT see the injustices of running a case where extreme torture was used?


where are your basic human instincts?

Here we go again.

For you.

All things mccann must be praised.

Amaral must be destroyed.

It's your same old story again sadie.

[Luz]

It wasn't Joao's sperm, and there was an explanation which was accepted.  You forgot to mention that.

My point was his answer: «I DIDN'T HURT HER, I JUST KILLED HER»

[Luz]

Hey, hey,.....hold on....

The only physical evidence accepted in the first trial over the alleged torture were the Photos published by Marinho Pinto in the Expresso Newspaper. It's commonly accepted that they were photo-shopped, now.

The fact that the only doctor that saw and treated Leonor for her bruises was not accepted in Trial tells all. The doctor certified that she exhibited bruises from assaults at various times and none was compatible with the time she told the court she had been attacked inside the PJ.

Why did the court refuse to hear Leonor's inmate that was going to testify that she had been assaulted inside the prison?!

Funnily enough, that same Prison Director, that allowed one inmate to be spanked inside her prison, was awarded a Medal by Marinho Pinto  that same year.


And further more, that same Prison Director instructed (allegedly) the chief of the prison guards to alter the registration of the movements of Leonor, because the ones they had didn't fit the allegations of torture in the PJ.

[stephen25000]

I would trust Leonor Cipriano anytime over Amaral tbh.

However, having broken to torture, she is their puppet now .... unless she is extra-ordinarily strong


As for physical proof?  What do you expect more than  the copious proof given with witness statements and photographs?  Do you expect the bruises to still be there? 

The witnesses included the very brave Dr Anna C****   prison Governor.


Why are you so keen to always promote Amaral, Stephen?  He is a Court proven liar.  He called the Rottweilers in., even IF he didn't take part in the torture itself


How about the rights of a simple PT couple Leonor Cipriano and her brother Joao?   Are you unable to see the flaws in this case?  Can you NOT see the injustices of running a case where extreme torture was used?


where are your basic human instincts?

Also sadie, who were the witnesses to the so called 'torture' ?

L. Cipriano ?

Who is of course a liar.

My sympathy is for Joana, and the awful fate which befell her.

[Luz]

I would trust Leonor Cipriano anytime over Amaral tbh.

However, having broken to torture, she is their puppet now .... unless she is extra-ordinarily strong


As for physical proof?  What do you expect more than  the copious proof given with witness statements and photographs?  Do you expect the bruises to still be there? 

The witnesses included the very brave Dr Anna C****   prison Governor.


Why are you so keen to always promote Amaral, Stephen?  He is a Court proven liar.  He called the Rottweilers in., even IF he didn't take part in the torture itself


How about the rights of a simple PT couple Leonor Cipriano and her brother Joao?   Are you unable to see the flaws in this case?  Can you NOT see the injustices of running a case where extreme torture was used?


where are your basic human instincts?

This tells all about where your sympathies fall. You'll rather defend a murderer than a young innocent 8 year old that was made a slave and, lastly, was brutally killed.

I know personally Dra. Ana Calado, and for a question of professional courtesy I have not made comments about her - but I know what she did.

[Benice]

The child was dismembered/quartered with an ax, according to João Cipriano.

If she was abducted why did he describe the way he dismembered her and assembled the pieces in plastic bags in order to put them in a deep freezer?

The most revealing was his answer when asked about the sperm that was found in a child's underpanties in the house, he responded: «I didn't hurt her, I just killed her».

Once torture had been established, nothing said or claimed or confessed by LC and her brother can be regarded as credible or believable evidence.    They could have been simply agreeing with what was being suggested to them by the PJ to avoid further torture.    So to keep quoting what they said is a waste of time imo.   

Torture rendered the guilty verdict to be unsafe - and at the very least there should have been a re-trial.   It really is as simple as that IMO.    I do not understand how anyone can disagree with that.

[Anna]

I would trust Leonor Cipriano anytime over Amaral tbh.

However, having broken to torture, she is their puppet now .... unless she is extra-ordinarily strong


As for physical proof?  What do you expect more than  the copious proof given with witness statements and photographs?  Do you expect the bruises to still be there? 

The witnesses included the very brave Dr Anna C****   prison Governor.


Why are you so keen to always promote Amaral, Stephen?  He is a Court proven liar.  He called the Rottweilers in., even IF he didn't take part in the torture itself


How about the rights of a simple PT couple Leonor Cipriano and her brother Joao?   Are you unable to see the flaws in this case?  Can you NOT see the injustices of running a case where extreme torture was used?


where are your basic human instincts?

I believe Leonor is innocent, She had no criminal record, was said to have never smacked her children and was condemned, simply because, she was of low intelligence, confused and afraid.
 I have read a lot but cannot find the link that I had of importance, but this is interesting  (which you have probably all read)   http://www.asmeninasquevieramdasestrelas.com/juridica.html

[Mr Gray]

As Cipriano's testimony was used in prosecuting members of the PJ . their conviction must remain in doubt, but time will tell on that. She is a repeated liar and murderer, and nothing you can say will get away from that.

Now remind me of what happened to George's conviction.

What physical proof has been offered Cipriano was tortured by members of the PJ ?

If it was conjecture, a conviction should never have been given.

Would you trust a repeated liar such as Cipriano ?

so you are doing your usual backpeddaling...now the conviction hasn't been superseded as you said last night but must be in doubt. well the court doesn't agree with you but you are free to question the conviction. the fact is though that the court HASNT changed their minds about torture..it still accepts it took place. Physical evidence ...bruising

[stephen25000]

so you are doing your usual backpeddaling...now the conviction hasn't been superseded as you said last night but must be in doubt. well the court doesn't agree with you but you are free to question the conviction. the fact is though that the court HASNT changed their minds about torture..it still accepts it took place. Physical evidence ...bruising

In what way is bruising proof of torture ?

Pray tell.

The woman is a convicted liar and murderer.

That factor is unchanged.

You are quite happy for members of the PJ to have a conviction over their heads, but not Cipriano.

Why is that ?

[Benice]

This tells all about where your sympathies fall. You'll rather defend a murderer than a young innocent 8 year old that was made a slave and, lastly, was brutally killed.

I know personally Dra. Ana Calado, and for a question of professional courtesy I have not made comments about her - but I know what she did.

Why not comment?     Is that because if the PJ was telling the truth then the Prison Director and her medical expert were guilty of committing perjury and as a result of their lies innocent people ended up with suspended prison sentences and criminal records?      Surely if that was true that would make her a massive criminal - why would you owe 'professional courtesy' to such a dishonest person.

Whichever way you look at it either one party is a liar and a disgrace to her profession or the other one is a liar and a disgrace to his profession.     The courts decided it was not Dr. Ana Calado - no doubt because she provided indisputable proof of the veracity of her claims - backed up with credible evidence.     

Has Amaral or anyone else threatened to sue her for libel which ultimately resulted in their false convictions?  If not why not?  What about his 'honour'.