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Author Topic: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?  (Read 138952 times)

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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #855 on: August 29, 2018, 11:18:34 PM »
Quote from: Miss Taken Identity on August 29, 2018, 08:40:26 PM
I have read the posts.  I understand what the message is. The outrage you both feel about 'McCann bashers, H*ters, evil trolls, etc posting bile. what that has to do with this forum I have absolutely no idea.

I have never been to a McCann forum. I have no reason to frequent such a described 'toxic enviroment'. If it is so bad I would wonder why go there then come here to bemoan about 'skeptics' if not to try and lump us all as one massive gang of bullies.

This forum is about finding out what happened to MBM by discussion. Not the same as trying to 'solve the case'  Any talk about the situation leading up to and the aftermath of MBM's claimed disappearance by her parents, is seen by you and others as mccann bashing etc.   This is the case as you always attack the poster
(many of me ) and not the post.

I take confort from that as it proves that the supporters have no real arguement to offer, just to be 'offended' on behalf of people they don't even know.


So what came first?

My opinion : On a yahoo chatsite, with many threads on different subjects, some  posters were questioning the behaviour of the McCanns on the week MBM disappeared. there were no accusations or nastyness, however, after a while the chat turned bad by 'new people' coming in hard selling the 'abduction' and began to name call anyone who challenged the theory... I left long before the Amaral hatred came about.

The McCanns created their own monster.

Forum parents discussed  nightmares for many children who thought they would be abducted from their bed via a window as was 'that little girl'.
.
If this forum is about finding out what happened to Madeleine McCann they why have we spent 57 pages discussing the reprehensible activities of an OAP in Leicestershire?

As for the rest of your post, without evidence of this lovely little friendly chatroom that turned nasty when the bad ol’ supporters turned up I’m afraid I’m going to have to trat that with a large spoonful of salt, having witnessed a very similar high profile forum and the comments there shortly after Madeleine’s disappearance.
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"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #856 on: August 29, 2018, 11:19:50 PM »
Quote from: Erngath on August 29, 2018, 10:16:45 PM
What constitutes hate speech and bullying seems to have been accepted in school, workplaces and in the publc arena.
Shouldn't be too difficult to carry this over into the internet.

Do you consider any of the internet speculation about the McCann family to be  outwith the bounds of decency?
How far is free speech allowed?

Hate speech (as opposed to just 'hate') does have a legal definition and those practicing it can be prosecuted. No-one has been prosecuted for directing such speech at the McCanns.

There is no legal definition of bullying, it isn't a criminal offense.

'The bounds of decency' means nothing to me because I don''t know what you mean by it. We may disagree as to what is or isn't 'decent'.

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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #857 on: August 29, 2018, 11:34:01 PM »
Quote from: G-Unit on August 29, 2018, 11:19:50 PM
Hate speech (as opposed to just 'hate') does have a legal definition and those practicing it can be prosecuted. No-one has been prosecuted for directing such speech at the McCanns.

There is no legal definition of bullying, it isn't a criminal offense.

'The bounds of decency' means nothing to me because I don''t know what you mean by it. We may disagree as to what is or isn't 'decent'.
The law

Some forms of bullying are illegal and should be reported to the police. These include:

violence or assault
theft
repeated harassment or intimidation, for example name calling, threats and abusive phone calls, emails or text messages
hate crimes

https://www.gov.uk/bullying-at-school
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"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Erngath

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #858 on: August 29, 2018, 11:34:17 PM »
Quote from: G-Unit on August 29, 2018, 11:19:50 PM
Hate speech (as opposed to just 'hate') does have a legal definition and those practicing it can be prosecuted. No-one has been prosecuted for directing such speech at the McCanns.

There is no legal definition of bullying, it isn't a criminal offense.

'The bounds of decency' means nothing to me because I don''t know what you mean by it. We may disagree as to what is or isn't 'decent'.


When you said your child was bullied I assume name calling was involved.
Perhaps the bully felt that whatever he/she said was within the bounds of decency.
It cannot be left for individuals to decide what is or is not decent if that decision impacts on another person.
There may be no legal definition of bullying but in schools, workplaces etc bullying has to be defined and dealt with.
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Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #859 on: August 29, 2018, 11:35:08 PM »
Bullying - a definition

There is no legal definition of bullying.

However, it’s usually defined as behaviour that is:

repeated
intended to hurt someone either physically or emotionally
often aimed at certain groups, for example because of race, religion, gender or sexual orientation
It takes many forms and can include:

physical assault
teasing
making threats
name calling
cyberbullying - bullying via mobile phone or online (for example email, social networks and instant messenger)
https://www.gov.uk/bullying-at-school/bullying-a-definition
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"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Sunny

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #860 on: August 30, 2018, 06:41:56 AM »
Quote from: Davel on August 29, 2018, 08:20:08 PM
Online questions and criticism is fine...

I have read the last few pages and seen very little in the way of sympathy (this does not mean none) for Brenda. Yes she made some horrible posts about the McCanns but most of them were not, they were simply questioning what the couple did and from what I can see she responded to goading by supporters and gave back what they gave her.

« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 05:48:45 PM by John »
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Members are reminded that cites must be provided in accordance with the forum rules. On several occasions recently cites have been requested but never provided. Asking for a cite is not goading but compliance.

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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #861 on: August 30, 2018, 07:27:15 AM »
Quote from: Sunny on August 30, 2018, 06:41:56 AM
I have read the last few pages and seen very little in the way of sympathy (this does not mean none) for Brenda. Yes she made some horrible posts about the McCanns but most of them were not, they were simply questioning what the couple did and from what I can see she responded to goading by supporters and gave back what they gave her.

Do you not find her bullying behaviour of a young woman reprehensible?  Did she have the right to repeatedly accuse the McCanns in your view? 
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 05:49:08 PM by John »
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"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Sunny

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #862 on: August 30, 2018, 07:30:57 AM »
Quote from: Vertigo Swirl on August 30, 2018, 07:27:15 AM
Do you not find her bullying behaviour of a young woman reprehensible?  Did she have the right to repeatedly accuse the McCanns in your view?

No and no but did she deserve what happened to her thanks to the dossier compilers and the media. I don't believe she deserved any of it. Perhaps a knock  on the door by the police if she had broken the law (which she hadn't I believe) but not the media onslaught she got.

Can any decent person justify that?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 05:49:24 PM by John »
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Members are reminded that cites must be provided in accordance with the forum rules. On several occasions recently cites have been requested but never provided. Asking for a cite is not goading but compliance.

From this moment onward, posts making significant claims which are not backed up by a cite will be removed.

Moderators and Editors take note!

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #863 on: August 30, 2018, 08:23:53 AM »
Quote from: Sunny on August 30, 2018, 07:30:57 AM
No and no but did she deserve what happened to her thanks to the dossier compilers and the media. I don't believe she deserved any of it. Perhaps a knock  on the door by the police if she had broken the law (which she hadn't I believe) but not the media onslaught she got.

Can any decent person justify that?
So if you saw someone behaving repeatedly reprehensibly, bullying  and accusing others repeatedly of being murderers you would do nothing?  Just let them get on with it?  Can any decent person justify that?

Listening to R4 about the twitter abuse of Sandy Hook parents right now, very interesting...
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"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #864 on: August 30, 2018, 09:02:57 AM »
Either the dossier compilers were doing a good thing, as claimed, in which case it shouldn’t be an issue to be associated with it, or they were doing a bad thing.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 11:19:09 AM by Angelo222 »
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #865 on: August 30, 2018, 09:12:42 AM »
Quote from: slartibartfast on August 30, 2018, 09:02:57 AM
Either the dossier compilers were doing a good thing, as claimed, in which case it shouldn’t be an issue to be associated with it, or they were doing a bad thing.


I totally support them and would like to see more posters of offensive posts outed.
The risk of suicide relates to the victims of online bullying and abuse... Not the perpetrators
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 10:22:21 AM by Angelo222 »
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #866 on: August 30, 2018, 09:18:54 AM »
I would love to see a definition of a 'decent' person. I see it as related to 'respectable'. In my opinion many people have been seen as decent and respectable..............until they were found out.
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Offline slartibartfast

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #867 on: August 30, 2018, 09:19:46 AM »
What does it matter if an anonymous person on an Internet forum was part of an anonymous group producing an dossier that the anonymous person supported?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 10:24:17 AM by Angelo222 »
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Offline Erngath

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #868 on: August 30, 2018, 09:25:16 AM »
Quote from: Davel on August 30, 2018, 09:12:42 AM
I totally support them and would like to see more posters of offensive posts outed.
The risk of suicide relates to the victims of online bullying and abuse... Not the perpetrators


I don't believe the dossier compilers were wrong either.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 10:28:47 AM by Angelo222 »
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Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #869 on: August 30, 2018, 09:27:21 AM »
Quote from: Erngath on August 30, 2018, 09:25:16 AM
I don't believe the dossier compilers were wrong either.

Feel free, we are all anonymous on here. Interesting that someone supporting a group outing people complains about being outed.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 10:29:32 AM by Angelo222 »
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“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.
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