Author Topic: What are the discrepancies between the McCann's and the friend's statements?  (Read 18690 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

As said in post http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8044.msg395191#msg395191:
".... Maybe Exton was closer to another theory than we realise, that would have been totally unacceptable to the McCanns.  Especially if they had put undercover operatives into the staff of Ocean Club as they said.  From that perspective they would have pinpointed the discrepancies between the McCanns' and the friend's statements.  Discrepancies which seem to be lost on us, for no one has a definite idea what the discrepancies are that Exton was talking about."

So what are these discrepancies that Exton had identified?

15
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 11:08:52 AM by John »
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Offline Mr Gray

As said in post http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8044.msg395191#msg395191:
".... Maybe Exton was closer to another theory than we realise, that would have been totally unacceptable to the McCanns.  Especially if they had put undercover operatives into the staff of Ocean Club as they said.  From that perspective they would have pinpointed the discrepancies between the McCanns' and the friend's statements.  Discrepancies which seem to be lost on us, for no one has a definite idea what the discrepancies are that Exton was talking about."

So what are these discrepancies that Exton had identified?

The possibility for discrepancies due to poor translation are endless and I have already quoted a newspaper article where the PJ suggested this

It seems the pj did not use any recognised professional translators
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 08:09:10 AM by davel »

Alfie

  • Guest
Yes, I'd also like to know the answer to this, bearing in mind there were 9 people involved and there are also discrepancies galore amongst the statements of the Tapas staff and other OC employees, and other witnesses.

Offline Robittybob1

Thanks for the encouragement to tackle this issue.  I'll have to think how it could be done?  Do the discrepancies cover all the days right from the beginning of the planned holiday?  Do we need to consider all the pre-planning as well, or just concentrate on the 3rd?
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Offline Mr Gray

Thanks for the encouragement to tackle this issue.  I'll have to think how it could be done?  Do the discrepancies cover all the days right from the beginning of the planned holiday?  Do we need to consider all the pre-planning as well, or just concentrate on the 3rd?

If you have time look from the very start
It would be interesting to see where the discrepancies start

Offline Robittybob1

I'm just wondering how relevant issues more than a day before would be to the case of MM missing.  I'll have to find the time.  I was only going to spend 6 months or so on the McCann case and now it is getting around to a year already.
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Offline Mr Gray

I'm just wondering how relevant issues more than a day before would be to the case of MM missing.  I'll have to find the time.  I was only going to spend 6 months or so on the McCann case and now it is getting around to a year already.
its relevant ...if you find some you will see why

Offline Robittybob1

There are some blogs and threads on forums discussing inconsistencies available on the internet as it is.

Wikipedia covers some of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Madeleine_McCann
"McCanns as arguidos
Early suspicion
Further information: § Media coverage

Praia da Luz, July 2009
The first indication that the media was turning against the McCanns was on 6 June 2007, when a German journalist asked them during a Berlin press conference whether they were involved in the disappearance.[117][118] On 30 June a 3,000-word article entitled "The Madeleine Case: A Pact of Silence" appeared in Sol, a Portuguese weekly, stating that the McCanns were suspects, highlighting alleged inconsistencies between their statements, and implying that the Tanner sighting had been invented.[119][120] The reporters had obtained the Tapas Sevens' mobile numbers and that of another witness, so it was apparent that the inquiry had a leak.[45][118][121]
This and later articles in the Portuguese press, invariably followed up in the UK, made several allegations, based on no evidence, that would engulf the McCanns for years on social media. They included that the McCanns and Tapas Seven were "swingers", that the McCanns had been sedating their children, and that the group had formed a "pact of silence" regarding what had happened the night of the disappearance.[100] Much was made of apparent inconsistencies within and between the McCanns' and Tapas Seven's statements. The police had asked the group questions in Portuguese, and an interpreter had translated the replies. The statements were then typed up in Portuguese, and verbally translated back into English for the interviewees to sign. Misunderstandings were inevitable.[62][100]
Among the inconsistencies was whether the McCanns had entered the apartment by the front or back door when checking on the children. According to the Polícia Judiciária case file, Gerry stated during his first interview, on 4 May 2007, that the couple had entered 5A through the locked front door for his 21:05 and her 22:00 checks, and in a second interview, on 10 May, that he had entered through the unlocked patio doors at the back.[122] (The patio doors could only be unlocked from inside, so the parents had left them unlocked to let themselves in.)[43] There was also an inconsistency about whether the front door had been locked.[122] Gerry told the Sunday Times in December 2007 that they had used the front door earlier in the week, but it was next to the children's bedroom, so they had started using the patio doors instead.[46]
The Polícia Judiciária questioned why, when Kate discovered Madeleine was missing, she had run to the tapas restaurant leaving the twins alone in 5A, when she could have used her cell phone or shouted to the group from 5A's rear balcony.[123]
Bedroom shutter
Officer dusts children's bedroom shutter
without protective clothing.[46]
—The Daily Telegraph
Another issue was whether the exterior shutter over Madeleine's bedroom window could be opened from outside. According to journalist Danny Collins, the shutter was made of non-ferrous metal slats on a roller blind that was housed in a box at the top of the inside window, controlled by pulling on a strap. Once rolled down, the slats locked in place outside the window and could only be raised using the strap on the inside.[124] Kate said the shutter and window were closed when Madeleine was put to bed, but open when she discovered Madeleine was missing. Gerry told the Polícia Judiciária that, when he was first alerted to the disappearance, he had lowered the shutter, then had gone outside and discovered that it could be raised from the outside.[125][126] Against this, the police said the shutter could not be raised from the outside without being forced, but there was no sign of forced entry; they also said forcing the shutter open would have caused a lot of noise.[124]
The apparent discrepancies contributed to the view of the Polícia Judiciária that there had been no abduction.[127][128] Even Kate's shout of "they've taken her" was viewed with suspicion, as though she had been paving the way for an abduction story.[46] Particularly from August onwards, these suspicions developed into the theory that Madeleine had died in apartment 5A as a result of an accident—perhaps after being sedated to help her stay asleep—and that her parents had hidden her body for a month, before retrieving her and driving her to an unknown place in a car they had hired over three weeks after the disappearance.[4][129] In 2010 Carlos Anjos, former head of the Police Detectives Union in Portugal, told BBC Panorama that most Portuguese investigators still believed Madeleine died as a result of an accident in the apartment.[130]"
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Offline Robittybob1

I don't really want to consider what some would call discrepancies  but rather the discrepancies between the McCann statements and the statements made by their friends.
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Offline Robittybob1

Here is one that relies on Portuguese sources: Madeleine and the missing hour: how often did the McCanns check on their children?
By SUE REID
Last updated at 16:31 11 August 2007


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-474656/Madeleine-missing-hour-did-McCanns-check-children.html#ixzz4dSPoGxpZ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

"The reluctance of Gerry and Kate McCann or their friends to speak publicly, or in any detail, about the minutiae of the evening has fuelled the controversy, although they insist it is illegal in Portugal to comment on any police investigation.
In another uncomfortable development the Portuguese press, including the respected
newspaper Dairio de Noticias, has claimed that interviews given by the McCann group to police
contain discrepancies. Their stories and the timings of their movements on the night do not tally.
Furthermore, emails and phone messages sent between the group - and intercepted by the PolÌcia Judiciaria and British detectives helping the inquiry - are reported to contain conversations that contradict earlier statements.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-474656/Madeleine-missing-hour-did-McCanns-check-children.html#ixzz4dSPKUs6B "
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Offline Mr Gray

There are some blogs and threads on forums discussing inconsistencies available on the internet as it is.

Wikipedia covers some of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Madeleine_McCann
"McCanns as arguidos
Early suspicion
Further information: § Media coverage

Praia da Luz, July 2009
The first indication that the media was turning against the McCanns was on 6 June 2007, when a German journalist asked them during a Berlin press conference whether they were involved in the disappearance.[117][118] On 30 June a 3,000-word article entitled "The Madeleine Case: A Pact of Silence" appeared in Sol, a Portuguese weekly, stating that the McCanns were suspects, highlighting alleged inconsistencies between their statements, and implying that the Tanner sighting had been invented.[119][120] The reporters had obtained the Tapas Sevens' mobile numbers and that of another witness, so it was apparent that the inquiry had a leak.[45][118][121]
This and later articles in the Portuguese press, invariably followed up in the UK, made several allegations, based on no evidence, that would engulf the McCanns for years on social media. They included that the McCanns and Tapas Seven were "swingers", that the McCanns had been sedating their children, and that the group had formed a "pact of silence" regarding what had happened the night of the disappearance.[100] Much was made of apparent inconsistencies within and between the McCanns' and Tapas Seven's statements. The police had asked the group questions in Portuguese, and an interpreter had translated the replies. The statements were then typed up in Portuguese, and verbally translated back into English for the interviewees to sign. Misunderstandings were inevitable.[62][100]
Among the inconsistencies was whether the McCanns had entered the apartment by the front or back door when checking on the children. According to the Polícia Judiciária case file, Gerry stated during his first interview, on 4 May 2007, that the couple had entered 5A through the locked front door for his 21:05 and her 22:00 checks, and in a second interview, on 10 May, that he had entered through the unlocked patio doors at the back.[122] (The patio doors could only be unlocked from inside, so the parents had left them unlocked to let themselves in.)[43] There was also an inconsistency about whether the front door had been locked.[122] Gerry told the Sunday Times in December 2007 that they had used the front door earlier in the week, but it was next to the children's bedroom, so they had started using the patio doors instead.[46]
The Polícia Judiciária questioned why, when Kate discovered Madeleine was missing, she had run to the tapas restaurant leaving the twins alone in 5A, when she could have used her cell phone or shouted to the group from 5A's rear balcony.[123]
Bedroom shutter
Officer dusts children's bedroom shutter
without protective clothing.[46]
—The Daily Telegraph
Another issue was whether the exterior shutter over Madeleine's bedroom window could be opened from outside. According to journalist Danny Collins, the shutter was made of non-ferrous metal slats on a roller blind that was housed in a box at the top of the inside window, controlled by pulling on a strap. Once rolled down, the slats locked in place outside the window and could only be raised using the strap on the inside.[124] Kate said the shutter and window were closed when Madeleine was put to bed, but open when she discovered Madeleine was missing. Gerry told the Polícia Judiciária that, when he was first alerted to the disappearance, he had lowered the shutter, then had gone outside and discovered that it could be raised from the outside.[125][126] Against this, the police said the shutter could not be raised from the outside without being forced, but there was no sign of forced entry; they also said forcing the shutter open would have caused a lot of noise.[124]
The apparent discrepancies contributed to the view of the Polícia Judiciária that there had been no abduction.[127][128] Even Kate's shout of "they've taken her" was viewed with suspicion, as though she had been paving the way for an abduction story.[46] Particularly from August onwards, these suspicions developed into the theory that Madeleine had died in apartment 5A as a result of an accident—perhaps after being sedated to help her stay asleep—and that her parents had hidden her body for a month, before retrieving her and driving her to an unknown place in a car they had hired over three weeks after the disappearance.[4][129] In 2010 Carlos Anjos, former head of the Police Detectives Union in Portugal, told BBC Panorama that most Portuguese investigators still believed Madeleine died as a result of an accident in the apartment.[130]"

misunderstandings were inevitible

the shutter coud be opened from the outside

Offline Robittybob1

misunderstandings were inevitible

the shutter coud be opened from the outside
I'm not going to discuss whether the shutter can be opened from the outside, unless it is covered in the statements.
They could say it was open, but not claim how it was opened.  That is OK.
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Offline Mr Gray

I'm not going to discuss whether the shutter can be opened from the outside, unless it is covered in the statements.
They could say it was open, but not claim how it was opened.  That is OK.

its been shown the shutter could be opened from the outside...thats why i mentioned it

Offline Robittybob1

its been shown the shutter could be opened from the outside...thats why i mentioned it
I don't mind but it just won't be one of the discrepancies to be considered here.

So far most of the discrepancies I've seen on the web fall into the category of ones we will not discuss in this thread.

The front door, back door issue was cleared up by Gerry himself. That was a glaring discrepancy that is hard to accept an excuse for.  IMO no matter what Gerry says is the reason he made the error, will not be acceptable.

Were there others like that?
https://youtu.be/fzpniKAWvUI  Heriberto Janosch opening the window from the outside.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 09:57:45 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline faithlilly

Yes, I'd also like to know the answer to this, bearing in mind there were 9 people involved and there are also discrepancies galore amongst the statements of the Tapas staff and other OC employees, and other witnesses.

Exton, who knows a thing or two about statement taking I assume, reported anomalies in the McCann and their friend's statements.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?