Author Topic: Consider this scenario - Would a guilty person keep their case alive for many years?  (Read 59047 times)

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Alfie

  • Guest
Scenario:

Your child dies whilst you're on holiday and (for reasons best known to yourself) you claim he or she must have been abducted.

As a result, the case attracts the attention of the world's media but more importantly the police forces of both the country in which you were holidaying and from your own country. 

The police are suspicious, the media which was supportive in the early days has turned on you, printing all sorts of uncomfortable headlines heavily hinting that you have done something untoward with your child. 

Eventually you are made chief suspect in your child's disappearance and every aspect of your holiday, your relationship with your child and family and friends, your comings and goings etc is put under the microscope.  The police bust their guts trying to find some evidence that you hid your child's body.

Meanwhile most people in your home country and in the country in which you holidayed are convinced you're guilty of something.

Eventually, after months of investigation and trying to build a case against you, the police concede they lack any evidence against you, and you are no longer suspects.  The case is shelved indefinitely.  You sue the media for libel and settle out of court - a nice big juicy payment for your bank account.

Now, at this point you'd be forgiven for going to ground, issuing one final statement to the media along the lines of "we have come to terms with the fact that our daughter is gone, and just want to be left alone to grieve", then slink away into obscurity to spend all that lovely lolly you screwed out of the public and the papers. 

But no.  This is not what you do.

Instead you spend a small fortune on various private investigators, you write a book which gets serialised in the country's biggest circulation newspaper, you appear on TV chat shows, all allegedly to keep your child's profile high in the public consciousness even though you know what happened.

Then to cap it all, three whole years after the case was shelved you go to the highest man in your land,  the prime minister, by sending him a letter demanding:

"a joint INDEPENDENT, TRANSPARENT and COMPREHENSIVE review of ALL information held in relation to our child's disappearance".

You are granted your wish and the country's most esteemed police force is drafted in to sift through all the evidence all over again, at great cost to the public purse. 

You make yourself available for more TV appearances, BBC Crimewatch even, appealing for people to come forward who may have actually seen something.

The question I have to ask you is:

ARE YOU F@@KING MAD????

If not, what is your motivation for doing all of this?

277
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 09:05:04 PM by John »

Offline John

In those circumstances it really depends on several factors including most importantly how said child died.  In the heat of the moment people have been known to do some really stupid things and especially so if under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

You do not mention this in your scenario Alf, any particular reason?
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 07:15:07 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Alfie

  • Guest
In those circumstances it really depends on several factors including most importantly how said child died.
What difference does it make how the child died?  I'm questioning *your* motivation for staying in the spotlight and campaigning to have *your* crimes reviewed and re-investigated.

Offline John

What difference does it make how the child died?  I'm questioning *your* motivation for staying in the spotlight and campaigning to have *your* crimes reviewed and re-investigated.

A very big difference actually.  In fact it could mean the difference between three and eighteen years in prison. 

It's not the first time in Portugal that a parent has campaigned to find her child and later been found culpable in her murder, disposing her corpse and simulating her abduction.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 06:12:51 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Brietta

I've left my children on their own while I dine two minutes away.

When checking on them I discover my eldest's body lying at the foot of the staircase ~ blood everywhere ~ or I discover my eldest's body lying in a pool of blood beside a couch with blood splattered on the walls behind her ~ and immediately think what? ...

Hmmm ... better get this out of my way and get on with the rest of my life?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Alfie

  • Guest
Why, if the police (in the country where you were holidaying) have released you from suspect status, and shelved the case indefinitely, leaving you to return to return to your own country where you could lead a normal life far from their clutches and under the radar, do you then spend literally years drawing attention to yourself and petitioning the prime minister of your own country to carry out a full and independent review of all the evidence?  The police were off the scent years ago but you keep on imsisting on dragging them back to your misdemeanours - are you nuts?

Why you've brought up the subject of co-operation or lack thereof  I've no idea as it forms no basis of my scenario, nor as far as I can see on your motivation for a full review of your own crimes..
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 06:15:02 PM by John »

Offline Mr Gray

In those circumstances it really depends on several factors including most importantly how said child died.  In the heat of the moment people have been known to do some really stupid things and especially so if under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

You do not mention this in your scenario Alf, any particular reason?

so what stupid things have people done...the suggestion that a cover up has been going for several years and even encouraged a police force to open the case to investigate it again is totally ridiculous
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 06:15:45 PM by John »

Offline John

so what stupid things have people done...the suggestion that a cover up has been going for several years and even encouraged a police force to open the case to investigate it again is totally ridiculous

To remind you davel, this is only Alf's scenario.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 06:16:03 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Mr Gray


could you give an example of a three yr old child dying from a head injury in a domestic enviroment...
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 09:19:22 PM by John »

Offline John

could you give an example of a three yr old child dying from a head injury in a domestic enviroment...

I believe we have been here before but will a two-year-old do?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2114474/Man-arrested-death-girl-2-died-falling-stairs-mother-away-New-York.html

A spokesman for Greater Manchester Police said today: 'Shortly before 12.45am on Saturday police were called by Greater Manchester Ambulance Service to an incident in Ashton-under-Lyne.

'A two-year-old girl was reported to have fallen down the stairs, sustaining a head injury.

'The young girl was taken to hospital, but sadly died at 7.20pm on Sunday.
'An investigation into the circumstances of this incident are ongoing.'

A post-mortem examination revealed that the girl died from a head injury.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Mr Gray

I believe we have been here before but will a two-year-old do?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2114474/Man-arrested-death-girl-2-died-falling-stairs-mother-away-New-York.html

A spokesman for Greater Manchester Police said today: 'Shortly before 12.45am on Saturday police were called by Greater Manchester Ambulance Service to an incident in Ashton-under-Lyne.

'A two-year-old girl was reported to have fallen down the stairs, sustaining a head injury.

'The young girl was taken to hospital, but sadly died at 7.20pm on Sunday.
'An investigation into the circumstances of this incident are ongoing.'

A post-mortem examination revealed that the girl died from a head injury.



it seems it wont do at all John...

Roxie Archer, aged 23 months, suffered a fatal brain injury after she was "forcibly and repeatedly punched" by Ben Raftery while in his care

Offline John


it seems it wont do at all John...

Roxie Archer, aged 23 months, suffered a fatal brain injury after she was "forcibly and repeatedly punched" by Ben Raftery while in his care

I thought you previously stated that children don't die from head injuries?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Mr Gray

I thought you previously stated that children don't die from head injuries?
#
they do if they are repeatedly punched....I have claimed that children dont die from domestic falls ...ceratinly not immediately and thats why the child in Alfie's scenario could not have died from ahead injury in 90 minutes.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 06:17:51 PM by John »

Offline Mr Gray

A broken neck results in instant death in many cases.
Domestic falls do not result in a broken neck
No stairs in Alfie's scenario
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 06:19:25 PM by John »

Offline Mr Gray

Scenario:

Your child dies whilst you're on holiday and (for reasons best known to yourself) you claim he or she must have been abducted.

As a result, the case attracts the attention of the world's media but more importantly the police forces of both the country in which you were holidaying and from your own country. 

The police are suspicious, the media which was supportive in the early days has turned on you, printing all sorts of uncomfortable headlines heavily hinting that you have done something untoward with your child. 

Eventually you are made chief suspect in your child's disappearance and every aspect of your holiday, your relationship with your child and family and friends, your comings and goings etc is put under the microscope.  The police bust their guts trying to find some evidence that you hid your child's body.

Meanwhile most people in your home country and in the country in which you holidayed are convinced you're guilty of something.

Eventually, after months of investigation and trying to build a case against you, the police concede they lack any evidence against you, and you are no longer suspects.  The case is shelved indefinitely.  You sue the media for libel and settle out of court - a nice big juicy payment for your bank account.

Now, at this point you'd be forgiven for going to ground, issuing one final statement to the media along the lines of "we have come to terms with the fact that our daughter is gone, and just want to be left alone to grieve", then slink away into obscurity to spend all that lovely lolly you screwed out of the public and the papers. 

But no.  This is not what you do.

Instead you spend a small fortune on various private investigators, you write a book which gets serialised in the country's biggest circulation newspaper, you appear on TV chat shows, all allegedly to keep your child's profile high in the public consciousness even though you know what happened.

Then to cap it all, three whole years after the case was shelved you go to the highest man in your land,  the prime minister, by sending him a letter demanding:

"a joint INDEPENDENT, TRANSPARENT and COMPREHENSIVE review of ALL information held in relation to our child's disappearance".

You are granted your wish and the country's most esteemed police force is drafted in to sift through all the evidence all over again, at great cost to the public purse. 

You make yourself available for more TV appearances, BBC Crimewatch even, appealing for people to come forward who may have actually seen something.

The question I have to ask you is:

ARE YOU F@@KING MAD????

If not, what is your motivation for doing all of this?


What you have posted makes absolute sense but do not expect everyone to see the perfect logic you have presented
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 06:21:22 PM by John »