Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.

[Mr Gray]

I repeated what was said in the podcasr. When I spoke for myself I mentioned only Keela. It's a fact that Keela wouldn't have been put behind the sofa at all if Eddie hadn't alerted there first though.

The podcast us claiming that the alerts, are confirmed by DNA... It mentions both dogs and I'm glad you agree that's untrue


I accept keela alerted... I accept dna was found... So what do you think I'm denying... That you refer to as silly... Those are the facts


It's also a fact that grime says that the blood must have dried in situ... So unless Madeleine bled in the hire car... It couldn't be her blood that keela was alerting to..

CSI HUMAN BLOOD DETECTING DOG

'Keela' The Crime Scene Investigation (C.S.I.) dog will search for and locate
exclusively human blood. She will locate contaminated weapons, screen
motor vehicles and items of clothing and examine crime scenes for human
blood deposits. She will accurately locate human blood on items that have
been subjected to 'clean up operations' or having been subjected to several
washing machine cycles. In training she has accurately located samples of
blood on property up to thirty-six years old.

In order for the dog to locate the source the blood must have 'dried' in situ.

[The General]

The podcast us claiming that the alerts, are confirmed by DNA... It mentions both dogs and I'm glad you agree that's untrue


I accept keela alerted... I accept dna was found... So what do you think I'm denying... That you refer to as silly... Those are the facts


It's also a fact that grime says that the blood must have dried in situ... So unless Madeleine bled in the hire car... It couldn't be her blood that keela was alerting to..

CSI HUMAN BLOOD DETECTING DOG

'Keela' The Crime Scene Investigation (C.S.I.) dog will search for and locate
exclusively human blood. She will locate contaminated weapons, screen
motor vehicles and items of clothing and examine crime scenes for human
blood deposits. She will accurately locate human blood on items that have
been subjected to 'clean up operations' or having been subjected to several
washing machine cycles. In training she has accurately located samples of
blood on property up to thirty-six years old.

In order for the dog to locate the source the blood must have 'dried' in situ.

Dried in situ. What does that mean? Post mortem? Bled from a live body in that place? Bled from a corpse in that place? Dripped from a moving, live person, then dried in that place?

[Mr Gray]

Dried in situ. What does that mean? Post mortem? Bled from a live body in that place? Bled from a corpse in that place? Dripped from a moving, live person, then dried in that place?

it means... fresh blood that has dried in that place ...corpses dont bleed post mortem

[The General]

it means... fresh blood that has dried in that place ...corpses dont bleed post mortem

They do. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15075683

[Mr Gray]

They do. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15075683

i should have made it clearer...your study is up to 72 hours post mortem...and it doesnt tell us if there was any bleeding at 72 hours.....in this case it was 30 days....all the blood in the body would have clotted by then.

[The General]

i should have made it clearer...your study is up to 72 hours post mortem...and it doesnt tell us if there was any bleeding at 72 hours.....in this case it was 30 days....all the blood in the body would have clotted by then.

Given Amaral's explanation of this phenomena in his theory, I wonder what the effect is on a corpse that is 'refrigerated' for up to 30 days as opposed to 'frozen'. Is it conceivable, Davel, as a scientist, that trace amounts of blood would seep from a corpse who's decomposition / hematological coagulation was arrested / stunted / slowed?

[Brietta]

Given Amaral's explanation of this phenomena in his theory, I wonder what the effect is on a corpse that is 'refrigerated' for up to 30 days as opposed to 'frozen'. Is it conceivable, Davel, as a scientist, that trace amounts of blood would seep from a corpse who's decomposition / hematological coagulation was arrested / stunted / slowed?

Any chance of revisiting Amaral' explanation of 'this phenomena' in his theory for me.  I'm afraid I don't seem to have heard it before?

[Mr Gray]

Given Amaral's explanation of this phenomena in his theory, I wonder what the effect is on a corpse that is 'refrigerated' for up to 30 days as opposed to 'frozen'. Is it conceivable, Davel, as a scientist, that trace amounts of blood would seep from a corpse who's decomposition / hematological coagulation was arrested / stunted / slowed?

The study you quoted may well involve more elderly people... Many who take blood thinning drugs that delay clotting... Even then bleeding only happened when the body was cut open... How long would it take Gerry to find a fridge... It's, all a but silly...

[Venturi Swirl]

Given Amaral's explanation of this phenomena in his theory, I wonder what the effect is on a corpse that is 'refrigerated' for up to 30 days as opposed to 'frozen'. Is it conceivable, Davel, as a scientist, that trace amounts of blood would seep from a corpse who's decomposition / hematological coagulation was arrested / stunted / slowed?

Why wonder about it?  Is it conceivable that Madeleine's corpse was refrigerated for 23 days and then moved by a high profile individual into a high profile rental car in a high profile holiday resort crawling with tourists, media, the occasional police person and all manner of ghoul seekers?  I know it's technically not impossible but we haven't even begun to explore where this mythical fridge might have been housed.

[The General]

The study you quoted may well involve more elderly people... Many who take blood thinning drugs that delay clotting... Even then bleeding only happened when the body was cut open... How long would it take Gerry to find a fridge... It's, all a but silly...

No, I never mentioned Gerry. I never mentioned geriatric, blood thinning medication; I asked about the plausibility of concept. No external factors. No context apart from refrigeration.
My initial link refuted your initial statement that corpses don't bleed - they do. It's an experiment which required blood letting to test blood flow.
Following on, looking for proof of concept, my question was:
As a scientist, is it conceivable that trace amounts of blood would seep from a corpse who's decomposition / hematological coagulation was arrested / stunted / slowed?
I'm not interested in Gerry's frantic search for a decent capacity fridge. I'm not interested in some poor, old dear being prescribed Warfarin for heart disease then sadly passing away. Just the concept please.

[The General]

Why wonder about it?  Is it conceivable that Madeleine's corpse was refrigerated for 23 days and then moved by a high profile individual into a high profile rental car in a high profile holiday resort crawling with tourists, media, the occasional police person and all manner of ghoul seekers?  I know it's technically not impossible but we haven't even begun to explore where this mythical fridge might have been housed.

Not interested in the context. I'm asking the resident scientist for an opinion on the concept, mano a mano. It's important because we can blow the Amaral theory out of the water with one fell swoop - so let's do it.

[Venturi Swirl]

Not interested in the context. I'm asking the resident scientist for an opinion on the concept, mano a mano. It's important because we can blow the Amaral theory out of the water with one fell swoop - so let's do it.

Hmmm...I detect the merest whiff of a sneer in your reply so I don't think whatever Davel says is going to stick with you.  Just a hunch.

[Venturi Swirl]

No, I never mentioned Gerry. I never mentioned geriatric, blood thinning medication; I asked about the plausibility of concept. No external factors. No context apart from refrigeration.
My initial link refuted your initial statement that corpses don't bleed - they do. It's an experiment which required blood letting to test blood flow.
Following on, looking for proof of concept, my question was:
As a scientist, is it conceivable that trace amounts of blood would seep from a corpse who's decomposition / hematological coagulation was arrested / stunted / slowed?
I'm not interested in Gerry's frantic search for a decent capacity fridge. I'm not interested in some poor, old dear being prescribed Warfarin for heart disease then sadly passing away. Just the concept please.

Does blood that is inside a corpse remain fresh for 23 days in a fridge? 

[Mr Gray]

Not interested in the context. I'm asking the resident scientist for an opinion on the concept, mano a mano. It's important because we can blow the Amaral theory out of the water with one fell swoop - so let's do it.

I've already blown his theory out... How did Maddie die between 8.30 and 10....rolling off the sofa... Banging her head and dying... Not possible

[The General]

Does blood that is inside a corpse remain fresh for 23 days in a fridge?

Just the concept. Let's start with whether it is possible for 'blood' to be in a state whereby it can seep from a corpse post mortem, under prolonged refrigerated conditions. If it's impossible, show me, and I'll dismiss this 'evidence' immediately. I'll may even proselytise (Brietta) = because it's the basis of his whole case. He seems very sure of his facts for a man who probably knows very little about this niche subject of post mortem hematological coagulation upon induced temperature lowering. Just flew that kite to the world, even wrote a goddam book based on it. The bolas on the guy.