Why has Bamber campaigned to say he isn't a psychopath?

[Nicholas]

Is this ok Stephanie?

Thanks Holly 

[Holly Goodhead]

You may -or not- recall that I've previously wondered what were the chances of adopting two genetically unrelated children who both become afflicted with forms of mental illness/personality disorders, albeit, I'm aware that a PD isn't a mental illness. It comes as no surprise to me. It may not have been so much about the Bambers attempting to slot them into holes which didn't fit their personalities, so much as them feeling they HAD to force themselves into those holes, possibly resulting in neither of them knowing who they were and where they fitted.

If there is no evidence of Jeremy having any kind of mental abnormality/brain injury, it seems strange that he hasn't produced the evidence as a way of silencing those who say the crime was committed because of such. Surely it would be in his favour?

But there's no evidence SC or JB were diagnosed with any PD.  June and SC were diagnosed with mental illness as per Dr Ferguson's WS's. 

I've no idea about the Bamber family dynamics. 

JB has made available reports from Prof Egan but those who've convinced themselves otherwise will no doubt persist with their beliefs which they're entitled to:

https://jeremybamber.org/psychological-reports/

[Holly Goodhead]

Thanks Holly 

You're welcome. 

[Nicholas]

Medical research has shown that some individuals who were diagnosed as being psychopathic in their early years appear to lose the trait by middle age.  If I recall correctly this only occurs in some and not all cases.  Bamber could very well have exhibited signs of being a psychopath in his youth but has since lost them.

My understanding is they don't lose the trait per se - they become less dangerous. They are still manipulative and calculating and still as charming as ever. With age I would imagine they are more easily fatigued and prone to making "ill conceived" decisions as Essex police highlighted.

[Nicholas]

Maybe for the sake of argument we should refer to it as anti social personality disorder (ASPD)?

"Psychopathy, or sociopathy, is not an official diagnosis. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) refers to the condition as [ censored word]ocial personality disorder. People with APD, the DSM says, have "abnormal personality functioning" and "pathological personality traits," such as egocentrism, manipulativeness, and a lack of empathy.
Brain scans, of course, are only one potential indicator that someone has psychopathic tendencies. Genetics and family history also likely play a role in the development of the disorder.

[Nicholas]

But there's no evidence SC or JB were diagnosed with any PD.  June and SC were diagnosed with mental illness as per Dr Ferguson's WS's. 

I've no idea about the Bamber family dynamics. 

JB has made available reports from Prof Egan but those who've convinced themselves otherwise will no doubt persist with their beliefs which they're entitled to:

https://jeremybamber.org/psychological-reports/

but it was the 1980's. How many people do you know from that era were tested for PD's?

Experts make mistakes and can be conned as easily as many of us. I refer you to Hall's successful guittard application in 2012 - mere months before it became quite apparent he had "issues. Yet not dissimilar to Bamber he'd managed to fool many, there was nothing wrong with him. He was an appellant in a D-Cat prison and months away from home visits.

[Nicholas]

Is there any evidence JB has refused anyone access to his medi records?

I didn't say SC's at the heart of the case.  I said SC's mental health issues are at the heart of the case.  This isn't my opinion it's a fact.  Either JB is guilty as the prosecution claim with the probable motive being his inheritance and hatred of his adoptive family.  Or SC murdered her family and took her own life as the defence claim due to her mental illness.

The silencer and blood need completely undermining for an acquittal.

More to the point, has anyone ever asked to see them?

Though this still doesn't answer my question? Why did he decide to campaign and claim he's not a psychopath?

[Nicholas]

But there's no evidence SC or JB were diagnosed with any PD.  June and SC were diagnosed with mental illness as per Dr Ferguson's WS's. 

I've no idea about the Bamber family dynamics. 

JB has made available reports from Prof Egan but those who've convinced themselves otherwise will no doubt persist with their beliefs which they're entitled to:

https://jeremybamber.org/psychological-reports/

You may find this helpful Holly - "Don't believe everything you read"
https://insidetime.org/dont-believe-everything-read/
and consider John Worboys http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2018/694.html

Prisoners often exploit the parole board - especially those prisoners who are explotative by nature.

Re: John Worboys "You stated that "I'm deeply sorry about what I have done. I feel I've become a better person since I changed my stance and admitted my guilt". You explained the context of your offending, the drivers and the links to your own life experiences and how that has all impacted to form your personality, attitudes and beliefs. Your account and explanation evidenced insight and was consistent with your disclosures and reflections in treatment and assessment settings … You said that "from 2011 I felt so guilty didn't know who to speak to – I found religion – decided if I'm going to follow the lord I've got to be honest and admit what I have done". You say that SOTP has taught you to identify risk factors and put in place strategies to self-manage those risks …

[Nicholas]

Would he ordinarily have been subjected to any tests for mental illness/personality disorders pre-trial, during trial or shortly after the verdict?

Is it possible he could have done what the prosecution claim without suffering any mental illness and/or personality disorder?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8523.msg429042#msg429042

What are your thoughts? Do you think "normal" people commit mass murder & shoot 2 sleeping boys (one found to be sucking his thumb)?

[Holly Goodhead]

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8523.msg429042#msg429042

What are your thoughts? Do you think "normal" people commit mass murder & shoot 2 sleeping boys (one found to be sucking his thumb)?

In one of my more geeky moments I looked up the list of those serving life in an attempt to find correlations for their offending but the info provided is too patchy.  If I had to hazard a guess, aside from those with a diagnosed mental illness, I would say something goes awry in utero either the mother secreting too much or too little of a hormone or ingesting something toxic which then adversely affects the developing foetus.  And/or abuse and neglect from birth - 2 years of age resulting in an insecure attachment.  I think this will account for most but then you have crimes carried out under the influence of mind altering substances and temporary states of mind: anger, rage, passion etc.  Then there are warped ideologies eg IS and Third Reich.  Oh and obviously brain disease and injury.  I don't believe in evil per se there must surely be explanations for deviating from the norm?  Shipman is an interesting one not sure where he fits.

Re JB I quote Dr Vanezis:

..."I expressed the views that Jeremy would have to be a nutter to have done what occurred, in that he must have had such a warped state of mind to engineer it in the manner in which it was presented.  This was almost too incredible to believe".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206.0;attach=740

[LuminousWanderer]

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8523.msg429042#msg429042

What are your thoughts? Do you think "normal" people commit mass murder & shoot 2 sleeping boys (one found to be sucking his thumb)?

First, you'd have to define for us what "normal" is.

Then you'd have to explain how this "normal" is the opposite of, or different from, "psychopathy", a label not approved or accepted by mainstream clinical psychiatry.

Nobody doubts that what was done on that night was demonic and appalling.  I've said before that the person who did it should have been hung.  There is no doubt in my mind about that.

[Angelo222]

Has it ever been claimed that Bamber's mental reasoning was in some way influenced by narcotics when he carried out the shootings?  I ask this because of his admission that he stopped his car and put on another jumper on what was a warm August morning.

[APRIL]

Has it ever been claimed that Bamber's mental reasoning was in some way influenced by narcotics when he carried out the shootings?  I ask this because of his admission that he stopped his car and put on another jumper on what was a warm August morning.

Added to which is a claim-although unproven- that a fall in infancy caused a frontal lobe injury. It was -allegedly- the reason he couldn't enrol on a deep sea diving course.

[Nicholas]

Added to which is a claim-although unproven- that a fall in infancy caused a frontal lobe injury. It was -allegedly- the reason he couldn't enrol on a deep sea diving course.

I'm guessing there may be reference to that in his medical records?

[Nicholas]

This is well worth listening to IMO http://player.themoth.org/#/?actionType=ADD_AND_PLAY&storyId=1151

I think this guy is pretty cool too..