Author Topic: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?  (Read 111182 times)

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Offline Carana

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #540 on: April 28, 2020, 12:27:10 PM »
I'll post documents I've found on the "Tips and Info" thread, now that the discussion appears to have moved beyond where it was when I last looked.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #541 on: April 28, 2020, 01:20:09 PM »
Hopefully, the crisis teams in various countries haven't been acting in isolation, but have been sharing lessons learned from mistakes and sharing at least the work-arounds they've found.

(For example, I've seen numerous medical staff on Twitter networking, both nationally and internationally, to share ad hoc solutions to various issues and inviting other medics to provide input to whatever current problems they were facing.)

I do think the UK was so focused on Brexit that it was napping at the helm (and that would probably have been the case whoever won the election).

I have to disagree. If Labour had won a second referendum could have been put on hold with no harm done. Johnson looks at the moment, however, as if he’s still eager to push through what looks likely to be a no deal Brexit with all the damage to the economy that was always going to flow from that. Couple that with the dire effects coronavirus is already having on the economy and it seems we as a nation are going to suffer some really hard times, financially, going forward.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #542 on: April 28, 2020, 01:34:31 PM »
I have to disagree. If Labour had won a second referendum could have been put on hold with no harm done. Johnson looks at the moment, however, as if he’s still eager to push through what looks likely to be a no deal Brexit with all the damage to the economy that was always going to flow from that. Couple that with the dire effects coronavirus is already having on the economy and it seems we as a nation are going to suffer some really hard times, financially, going forward.

A no deal Brexit was always a strong possibility because the EU are opposed to Brexit and wont agree to a reasoanble deal. the real hardships going forward will be as  a result of Corona virus which will not just affect the UK but the whole of the world.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #543 on: April 28, 2020, 01:41:23 PM »
A no deal Brexit was always a strong possibility because the EU are opposed to Brexit and wont agree to a reasoanble deal. the real hardships going forward will be as  a result of Corona virus which will not just affect the UK but the whole of the world.

It may have been a strong possibility, though not for the reasons put forward, but now it appears to be almost certain with the impact on the economy that economists have warned us about.

https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/what-would-no-deal-brexit-look
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #544 on: April 28, 2020, 02:12:57 PM »
It may have been a strong possibility, though not for the reasons put forward, but now it appears to be almost certain with the impact on the economy that economists have warned us about.

https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/what-would-no-deal-brexit-look

You should have realise by now taht many experts have many different views.

Offline Carana

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #545 on: April 28, 2020, 02:28:55 PM »
Right, I'm more interested in the pandemic right now.

For me, the whole Brexit saga is a slow-motion train-wreck. And now, with the Covid asteroid hitting earth on top of it...

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #546 on: April 28, 2020, 04:39:24 PM »
Right, I'm more interested in the pandemic right now.

For me, the whole Brexit saga is a slow-motion train-wreck. And now, with the Covid asteroid hitting earth on top of it...
you do know about the actual asteroid that is on its way don’t you?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #547 on: April 28, 2020, 04:42:36 PM »
A no deal Brexit was always a strong possibility because the EU are opposed to Brexit and wont agree to a reasoanble deal. the real hardships going forward will be as  a result of Corona virus which will not just affect the UK but the whole of the world.
The coronavirus effect will perfectly disguise any negative effect on the economy caused by a no-deal Brexit IMO.   Us Remainers have been denied any opportunity to be proved correct about that prediction which is a bit annoying.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Carana

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #548 on: April 28, 2020, 10:36:06 PM »
you do know about the actual asteroid that is on its way don’t you?

"CNN An asteroid estimated to be 1.2 miles wide will fly by Earth early Wednesday morning, but it's not expected to collide with our planet."

Well, that's reassuring.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #549 on: April 29, 2020, 03:46:12 PM »
Did anyone see the Panorama programme yesterday? Your thoughts ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline misty

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #551 on: April 30, 2020, 01:34:31 PM »
"CNN An asteroid estimated to be 1.2 miles wide will fly by Earth early Wednesday morning, but it's not expected to collide with our planet."

Well, that's reassuring.

Never mind the asteroids - I want to know what the billionaires know that we don't. Why isn't the government providing us all with nuclear bunkers?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimdobson/2020/03/27/billionaire-bunker-owners-are-preparing-for-the-ultimate-underground-escape/#1852b5484e12

Offline Carana

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #552 on: April 30, 2020, 05:00:35 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/29/revealed-the-inside-story-of-uk-covid-19-coronavirus-crisis?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_News_Feed

I was going to post that. Interesting.

I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but I posted the elusive SAGE documents (or whatever portion is publicly accessible) on the "Tips and Info" thread.

Bringing it here for discussion.
https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/scientific-advisory-group-for-emergencies-sage-coronavirus-covid-19-response

One of the two models used was the Hannay Fry BBC4 pandemic transmission simulation experiment. Well worth a watch. I hadn't heard of it, but it was broadcast as a documentary in 2018 to commemorate the "Spanish flu" one.

https://youtu.be/RmGiDUczhqQ

There's also a podcast interview with here here, now that reality is upon us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkqtcm3w7Vw

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #553 on: April 30, 2020, 05:29:30 PM »
Justice
These socialist governments put the UK’s coronavirus response to shame
Gabrielle Pickard-Whitehead
Yesterday
Are left-wing governments better at handling the Covid-19 crisis?


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Being able to count the number of new Covid-19 cases on one hand seems like a faraway dream for countries like the UK.

For New Zealanders though, it is a reality. While it is a much smaller country than the UK the news was still staggering: on the 27th of April, the country reported just five new Covid-19 cases, and said was ‘currently eliminated’ from its shores. It has justifiably elevated New Zealand to a status of global adoration and envy.

Announcing that New Zealand had “won the battle” against widespread community transmission, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said the nation would continue to hunt down the last few cases.

Since she came into power in October 2017, NZ Labour’s Jacinda Ardern has advocated putting the wellbeing of citizens before traditional bottom-line measures like productivity and growth.

Referring to capitalism as a “blatant failure”, Ardern said measures used to gauge economic success “have to change” to take into account “people’s ability to actually have a meaningful life.”

The desire to put people before the economy has been evident in Ardern’s response to the pandemic. Their lockdown measures were introduced early in a bid to keep cases low.

And with fewer than 1,500 cases recorded and just 19 deaths, according to figures from the John Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Centre, New Zealand’s strict preventative measures appear to have been a success.

Disease elimination

A major driver in New Zealand’s success was its decision to pursue an elimination strategy rather than the mitigation approach.

In the mitigation approach, stricter interventions were introduced as the pandemic worsened to “flatten the curve.” But in the NZ ‘disease elimination’ approach, strict measures were implemented early on to thwart disease transmission.

Those measures continued for a month and, by doing so, essentially extinguished many chains of Covid-19 transmission.

This elimination strategy contrasts to the UK’s less decisive response, with the government’s delay in enforcing lockdown slammed as having cost lives. In contrast, the UK’s dithering start has led to a more chaos and deaths.

The preparedness of health systems around the world has been another defining component of the effectiveness of Covid-19 responses. Britain’s health service, which has been drastically underfunded in ten years of crippling Tory-imposed austerity, has been described as being “unprepared for a pandemic” with an insufficient number of beds, equipment and staff being linked to the country’s high number of Covid-19 death rates.

New Zealand’s well-funded healthcare system stands in marked contrast. In 2018, Ardern’s government announced a ‘people’s budget’ which saw billions more dollars put into health and education. The ‘people’s budget’ was focused on rebuilding vital public services, particularly the health care sector.

Portugal’s socialist government Covid-19 response success

Another relative pandemic ‘success’ story has been Portugal. Despite having third highest population in Europe of 80+ year-olds, Portugal has witnessed the lowest pandemic mortality in Europe.

Like New Zealand, Portugal has had a firmly progressive agenda since its left-wing government came into power in 2015. Unlike elsewhere in Europe, Portugal has reversed austerity policies while overseeing economic growth. 

Since 2015, Portugal has boldly cast austerity aside and has subsequently enjoyed a major economic revival. Similar to New Zealand, the nation’s anti-austerity approach has come at the benefit of the nation’s health service. An international survey into European national health systems conducted in 2017, found that Portugal’s National Health Service ranked higher than many other European nations, including the UK.

Jose Hernandez, assistant professor of sociology and a specialist in social health policies at the University of Cordoba in southern Spain, notes how, with a well performing health service, Portugal was better prepared for a pandemic than many of its European counterparts.

“Portugal’s greater recent investment in public health and a much more centralised health service have all helped, while greater levels of mass tourism in Spain and the high degree of mobility that goes with it could have encouraged the spread of coronavirus,” Hernandez commented.

As well as prioritising funding its healthcare system that would have helped the country be more prepared for a health crisis, like New Zealand, Portugal’s comparative coronavirus response success is pinned on its rapid lockdown response.

Unlike Britain, whose Tory government effectively squandered its “head start” over other European nations, Portugal acted quickly in enforcing restrictions on movement, putting the welfare of its people before economic agendas.

Free of the chains of austerity, and with an clear commitment to prioritise people over the markets, New Zealand and Portugal show what a socialist-inspired Covid response looks like.

https://leftfootforward.org/2020/04/how-these-socialist-governments-put-the-uks-coronavirus-response-to-shame/


Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #554 on: April 30, 2020, 05:37:00 PM »
I was going to post that. Interesting.

I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but I posted the elusive SAGE documents (or whatever portion is publicly accessible) on the "Tips and Info" thread.

Bringing it here for discussion.
https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/scientific-advisory-group-for-emergencies-sage-coronavirus-covid-19-response

One of the two models used was the Hannay Fry BBC4 pandemic transmission simulation experiment. Well worth a watch. I hadn't heard of it, but it was broadcast as a documentary in 2018 to commemorate the "Spanish flu" one.

https://youtu.be/RmGiDUczhqQ

There's also a podcast interview with here here, now that reality is upon us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkqtcm3w7Vw

Thanks Carana. Lots of information there.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?