Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?

[Carana]

what do you think free movement means...what do you think controlled immigration means...

Between EU citizens?

There are EU guidelines (as I've already posted).

[Carana]

what do you think free movement means...what do you think controlled immigration means...

 a. Rights and obligations:

    For stays of under three months: the only requirement for Union citizens is that they possess a valid identity document or passport. The host Member State may require the persons concerned to register their presence in the country.
    For stays of over three months: EU citizens and their family members — if not working — must have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay. Union citizens do not need residence permits, although Member States may require them to register with the authorities. Family members of Union citizens who are not nationals of a Member State must apply for a residence permit, valid for the duration of their stay or a five-year period.
    Right of permanent residence: Union citizens acquire this right after a five-year period of uninterrupted legal residence, provided that an expulsion decision has not been enforced against them. This right is no longer subject to any conditions. The same rule applies to family members who are not nationals of a Member State and who have lived with a Union citizen for five years. The right of permanent residence is lost only in the event of more than two successive years’ absence from the host Member State.
    Restrictions on the right of entry and the right of residence: Union citizens or members of their family may be expelled from the host Member State on grounds of public policy, public security or public health. Guarantees are provided to ensure that such decisions are not taken on economic grounds, comply with the proportionality principle and are based on personal conduct, among others.

Finally, the directive enables Member States to adopt the necessary measures to refuse, terminate or withdraw any right conferred in the event of abuse of rights or fraud, such as marriages of convenience.
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/147/free-movement-of-persons

What is the problem?

[Carana]

What about Europol? Common databases? Science research? Erasmus? Galileo? Common health and safety standards? The N. Ireland mess? Paperwork that small businesses can't afford to take on? Supply chains?

And all this in the middle of a pandemic without an extension????

[faithlilly]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/19/uk-government-pandemic

[faithlilly]

Our PM appears to have gone missing in action. #wheresboris

[Venturi Swirl]

Astonishing that despite the absolute deluge of scorn and criticism heaped on the Tories in the last few months they are still polling much better than Labour, though Boris’s personal approval rating has dropped significantly.  He will of course be at PMQ’s today

“The Conservatives remain well in front, with 48 per cent of those surveyed by YouGov saying they would vote for the governing party if there were an election tomorrow and just 33 per cent choosing Labour”.

[faithlilly]

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-lockdown-should-not-be-eased-until-track-and-trace-is-a-success-say-government-advisers-11991336

[Carana]

I'm not quite sure what he means by "world-beating"...

[Carana]

Boris Johnson rejects calls to exempt foreign health workers from NHS surcharge
Workers from outside the European Economic Area have to pay a fee to use the NHS, a charge criticised as "unfair and unjust".

(...)

"The prime minister has rejected calls to scrap the health surcharge for overseas NHS and social care workers.

Workers coming to the UK from outside the European Economic Area have to pay a fee to use the health service."

(...)
Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer raised the issue at Prime Minister's Questions, saying: "Every Thursday we go out and clap for our carers. Many of them are risking their lives for the sake of all of us.

"Does the prime minister think it's right that care workers coming from abroad and working on our frontline should have to pay a surcharge of hundreds - sometimes thousands of pounds - to use the NHS themselves?"
The Speaker takes exception to the health secretary interrupting Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer during PMQs in the Commons.



Boris Johnson replied: "I've thought a great deal about this and I do accept and understand the difficulties faced by our amazing NHS staff and, like him, I've been a personal beneficiary of carers who have come from abroad and, frankly, saved my life."

He added: "On the other hand we must look at the realities - this is a great national service, it's a national institution, it needs funding and those contributions actually help us to raise about £900m, and it's very difficult in the current circumstances to find alternative sources.

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-rejects-calls-to-exempt-foreign-health-workers-from-nhs-surcharge-11991688


But, but, what about the £350m a week on the side of his bus that Brexit is supposed to provide to the NHS?

[Mr Gray]

Boris Johnson rejects calls to exempt foreign health workers from NHS surcharge
Workers from outside the European Economic Area have to pay a fee to use the NHS, a charge criticised as "unfair and unjust".

(...)

"The prime minister has rejected calls to scrap the health surcharge for overseas NHS and social care workers.

Workers coming to the UK from outside the European Economic Area have to pay a fee to use the health service."

(...)
Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer raised the issue at Prime Minister's Questions, saying: "Every Thursday we go out and clap for our carers. Many of them are risking their lives for the sake of all of us.

"Does the prime minister think it's right that care workers coming from abroad and working on our frontline should have to pay a surcharge of hundreds - sometimes thousands of pounds - to use the NHS themselves?"
The Speaker takes exception to the health secretary interrupting Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer during PMQs in the Commons.



Boris Johnson replied: "I've thought a great deal about this and I do accept and understand the difficulties faced by our amazing NHS staff and, like him, I've been a personal beneficiary of carers who have come from abroad and, frankly, saved my life."

He added: "On the other hand we must look at the realities - this is a great national service, it's a national institution, it needs funding and those contributions actually help us to raise about £900m, and it's very difficult in the current circumstances to find alternative sources.

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-rejects-calls-to-exempt-foreign-health-workers-from-nhs-surcharge-11991688


But, but, what about the £350m a week on the side of his bus that Brexit is supposed to provide to the NHS?

The following is taken from Wikipedia... It seems to show you are wrong re the effect of the NHS slogan..


Issues identified as important by voters who said they were likely to vote leave were headed by the number of immigrants coming into Britain (49%), Britain's ability to make its own laws (30%), the impact on Britain's economy (25%), the cost of EU immigration on Britain's welfare system (16%), impact on public services/housing (11%), the number of refugees coming to Britain to claim asylum (10%), Britain's ability to trade with countries in the European Union (9%), cost of EU membership fees (9%), regulations by the European Union on British businesses (8%), the impact on British jobs (7%), and Britain's status in the world (7%).[1]

[Carana]

According to Cummings, Vote Leave wouldn't have won without it:
"Pundits and MPs kept saying ‘why isn’t Leave arguing about the economy and living standards’. They did not realise that for millions of people, £350m/NHS was about the economy and living standards – that's why it was so effective. It was clearly the most effective argument not only with the crucial swing fifth but with almost every demographic. Even with UKIP voters it was level-pegging with immigration. Would we have won without immigration? No. Would we have won without £350m/NHS? All our research and the close result strongly suggests No."

"If Boris, Gove, and Gisela had not supported us and picked up the baseball bat marked 'Turkey/NHS/£350 million' with five weeks to go, then 650,000 votes might have been lost."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_vote_in_favour_of_Brexit

[Carana]

I'm with Keir on this one.
https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1263075226566475776

Unless I'm missing something, every time I think about this, I find it more and more shameful. I hope I'm not the only one.

People turn out to clap for frontline health workers, but non-EEA care workers (often of BAME origin with a higher risk of dying from it) don't even get a waiver on the surcharge of £400 (rising to £624) to the NHS, whether they use it or not?

They already pay taxes and NI contributions, so why do they have to pay twice?


And, if what Peston said is accurate, what Boris said was misleading.

Robert Peston
@Peston
Paul Johnson of @TheIFS, who knows a thing or two about the public finances, says exempting migrant health and care workers from the NHS surcharge would cost around £90m, a tenth of the £900m @BorisJohnson
 said it would cost in reply to @Keir_Starmer
 today
6:33 PM · May 20, 2020·Twitter Web App

I'd add all essential workers for that matter: porters, cleaners, public transport workers, chemist employees, cashiers...

Unless there's some sensible explanation, I find it a slap in the face to those who are risking their lives on low wages.

[Mr Gray]

I'm with Keir on this one.
https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1263075226566475776

Unless I'm missing something, every time I think about this, I find it more and more shameful. I hope I'm not the only one.

People turn out to clap for frontline health workers, but non-EEA care workers (often of BAME origin with a higher risk of dying from it) don't even get a waiver on the surcharge of £400 (rising to £624) to the NHS, whether they use it or not?

They already pay taxes and NI contributions, so why do they have to pay twice?


And, if what Peston said is accurate, what Boris said was misleading.

Robert Peston
@Peston
Paul Johnson of @TheIFS, who knows a thing or two about the public finances, says exempting migrant health and care workers from the NHS surcharge would cost around £90m, a tenth of the £900m @BorisJohnson
 said it would cost in reply to @Keir_Starmer
 today
6:33 PM · May 20, 2020·Twitter Web App

I'd add all essential workers for that matter: porters, cleaners, public transport workers, chemist employees, cashiers...

Unless there's some sensible explanation, I find it a slap in the face to those who are risking their lives on low wages.

is this a one off charge that they may have paid a couple of years ago......i think any future charges should be scrappped..and is this to apply solely to healthcare workers

[faithlilly]

is this a one off charge that they may have paid a couple of years ago......i think any future charges should be scrappped..and is this to apply solely to healthcare workers

Why solely to healthcare workers ? What about the essential shop workers, bus drivers etc etc.....in fact why not scrap it altogether?

[Mr Gray]

Why solely to healthcare workers ? What about the essential shop workers, bus drivers etc etc.....in fact why not scrap it altogether?

why not just give everyone  a million pounds...cheer everyone up. Do these people have to pay for visa too...scrap that as well.