Author Topic: Sceptics beliefs ?  (Read 239587 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #645 on: April 10, 2019, 12:26:38 AM »
You don’t know if the Tapas group’s statements are evidence?  What is evidence then?

The police gather evidence from the moment they open an investigation. At some point someone is charged because some of the evidence points to their guilt. Not all of it, some of it. In court only the evidence which, it is hoped, will prove guilt is used. Did you think all the evidence was used? That would drag on a bit to say the least.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #646 on: April 10, 2019, 01:42:29 AM »
You don’t know if the Tapas group’s statements are evidence?  What is evidence then?
A word I heard  the other day was "testify" so I think a statement is called testimony.
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #647 on: April 10, 2019, 07:33:04 AM »
The police gather evidence from the moment they open an investigation. At some point someone is charged because some of the evidence points to their guilt. Not all of it, some of it. In court only the evidence which, it is hoped, will prove guilt is used. Did you think all the evidence was used? That would drag on a bit to say the least.
So you agree it is evidence then.    Case closed.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #648 on: April 10, 2019, 08:16:42 AM »
So you agree it is evidence then.    Case closed.

It still doesn't mean that Kate's evidence about the window/shutters would be heard in court, which was your original claim.
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #649 on: April 10, 2019, 08:34:30 AM »
It still doesn't mean that Kate's evidence about the window/shutters would be heard in court, which was your original claim.
We can’t know at this stage what evidence would be heard in court.  You cannot claim it definitely would not, IMO, as hers and others evidence might be used to demonstrate what time window the alleged abductor operated within.  My original claim was that the open window and shutter are evidence of an abduction, I think we can all agree now that it is, I hope!. 
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #650 on: April 10, 2019, 09:58:18 AM »
We can’t know at this stage what evidence would be heard in court.  You cannot claim it definitely would not, IMO, as hers and others evidence might be used to demonstrate what time window the alleged abductor operated within.  My original claim was that the open window and shutter are evidence of an abduction, I think we can all agree now that it is, I hope!.

Your original claim has clearly changed.

snip/

The open window and shutter are evidence that would be used in any trial of an alleged abductor, that is a fact,
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10634.msg519713#msg519713

Of course it’s evidence and it would be presented as such at a trial of an anyone charged with entering the apartment and taking the child.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10634.msg519620#msg519620



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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #651 on: April 10, 2019, 10:21:37 AM »
Your original claim has clearly changed.

snip/

The open window and shutter are evidence that would be used in any trial of an alleged abductor, that is a fact,
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10634.msg519713#msg519713

Of course it’s evidence and it would be presented as such at a trial of an anyone charged with entering the apartment and taking the child.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10634.msg519620#msg519620
I stand by that.  When the prosecution sets out its case it usually describes the events leading up to the crime, based on the evidence it has accumulated.  Now, tell me - 'do you think the evidence of the open window and shutters would be considered irrelevant in a trial concerning a case of an abductor gaining entry to an apartment?  Was the method of entry (an unlocked back door) not discussed or referenced at any point at trial in the case of the girl abducted from her bath do you think?  If the open window and shutter are of so little importance or consequence in this case why have they fascinated some people for 12+ years? 
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline The General

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #652 on: April 10, 2019, 10:42:30 AM »
If the open window and shutter are of so little importance or consequence in this case why have they fascinated some people for 12+ years?
I imagine the same fascination as to why seemingly sane, responsible parents would habitually leave 3 wee ans alone in an unlocked holiday apartment, all for a jolly old time with friends and colleagues.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #653 on: April 10, 2019, 10:44:16 AM »
I stand by that.  When the prosecution sets out its case it usually describes the events leading up to the crime, based on the evidence it has accumulated.  Now, tell me - 'do you think the evidence of the open window and shutters would be considered irrelevant in a trial concerning a case of an abductor gaining entry to an apartment?  Was the method of entry (an unlocked back door) not discussed or referenced at any point at trial in the case of the girl abducted from her bath do you think?  If the open window and shutter are of so little importance or consequence in this case why have they fascinated some people for 12+ years?

You changed your original opinion when you realised it wasn't tenable as my last post shows. I have no need or desire to start at the beginning again.
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #654 on: April 10, 2019, 10:46:49 AM »
I imagine the same fascination as to why seemingly sane, responsible parents would habitually leave 3 wee ans alone in an unlocked holiday apartment, all for a jolly old time with friends and colleagues.
Why has that aspect of the case held so much fascination for some for 12+ years I wonder...
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #655 on: April 10, 2019, 10:48:29 AM »
You changed your original opinion when you realised it wasn't tenable as my last post shows. I have no need or desire to start at the beginning again.
I have not changed my opinion as MY last post shows.  The open window and shutter would, IMO, feature in the court case of a would-be abductor.  What we don't know is how that evidence would be used, but the idea that it wouldn't even be mentioned is nonsense IMO.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #656 on: April 10, 2019, 08:17:32 PM »
Be interesting to see the jury's faces when the evidence on said open window is revealed and no independent witnesses saw it open before or after the alleged abduction. Star witness Amy must have been dreaming to see it open when everybody else saw it closed.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #657 on: April 10, 2019, 08:30:23 PM »
Be interesting to see the jury's faces when the evidence on said open window is revealed and no independent witnesses saw it open before or after the alleged abduction. Star witness Amy must have been dreaming to see it open when everybody else saw it closed.
So Amy is not an independent witness then?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #658 on: April 10, 2019, 09:02:47 PM »
So Amy is not an independent witness then?

Amy will need to explain how she got there before Gerry closed that window. She'd have had to follow him in.
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #659 on: April 10, 2019, 09:14:47 PM »
Amy will need to explain how she got there before Gerry closed that window. She'd have had to follow him in.
Is she independent or not?  Why would she haveto explain anything if the window evidence is never going to be heard in court?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly