Blood spatter? Fact or myth?

[ShiningInLuz]

The following PJ photo is thought in some quarters to show blood spatter within apartment 5A.



My blog has been very active recently re 2 myths that I spent hours and hours investigating, and explaining.  Then, I got asked where my section on 'blood spatter' was.  Trouble is, I don't have one.

Is it possible we could work out what was going on in this photograph?

162

[lordpookles]

Obviously just wear and tear on the wall there. No high res image?

[Brietta]

The following PJ photo is thought in some quarters to show blood spatter within apartment 5A.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/V/08_VOLUME_VIIIa_Page_2192_a.jpg

My blog has been very active recently re 2 myths that I spent hours and hours investigating, and explaining.  Then, I got asked where my section on 'blood spatter' was.  Trouble is, I don't have one.

Is it possible we could work out what was going on in this photograph?

6B. Stain on the wall collected using a swab wet with distilled water.

286A/2007-CRL 6A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
The DNA results obtained through LCN from cellular material present in these combined swabs contained information too meagre to permit a meaningful comparison.

7B. Stain on the wall collected using a swab wet with distilled water.

286A/2007-CRL 7A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two persons, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs. In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

8B. Stain on the wall collected using a swab wet with distilled water.

286A/2007-CRL 8A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
The DNA results obtained through LCN from cellular material present in these combined swabs contained information too meagre to permit a meaningful comparison.

9B. Stain on the wall collected using a swab wet with distilled water.

286A/2007-CRL 9A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
An incomplete DNA result, apparently originating from a male individual, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs. In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result. Also, this result did not match in any way the profile obtained from swabs 286A/2007 CRL 1A & B.

10B. Stain on the wall collected using a swab wet with distilled water.

286A/2007-CRL 10A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two persons, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs. In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

11B. Stain on the wall collected using a swab wet with distilled water.

286A/2007-CRL 11A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
The attempt to obtain a DNA result through LCN from all and any cellular material recovered from these combined swabs was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

12B. Stain on the wall collected using a swab wet with distilled water.

286A/2007-CRL 12A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two persons, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs. In my opinion, there is no evidence that supports the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

13B. Stain on the wall collected using a swab wet with distilled water.

286A/2007-CRL 13A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
The attempt to obtain a DNA result through LCN from all and any cellular material recovered from these combined swabs was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

14B. Stain on the wall behind a sofa collected using a swab wet with distilled water.

286A/2007-CRL 14A & B Swabs collected from the rear of the sofa
Weak and incomplete DNA results consisting only of some unconfirmed DNA components were obtained from the cellular material present in these wet and dry swabs. In my opinion the results are not adequate for comparison purposes. These samples were submitted for LCN analysis.

A mixed, low-level DNA result was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in each of the swabs. In my opinion, there are no conclusive indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to these results.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm

[Brietta]

Obviously just wear and tear on the wall there. No high res image?

One can see that in the context of the theory put forward that Madeleine was killed in the area of the sofa the markers on the wall look pretty horrific.

In my opinion a perfect illustration of the reason why members of the public should not be let loose on official files they do not have the expertise to analyse and as a consequence launch into suppositions which defame the innocent.

[Alice Purjorick]

One can see that in the context of the theory put forward that Madeleine was killed in the area of the sofa the markers on the wall look pretty horrific.

In my opinion a perfect illustration of the reason why members of the public should not be let loose on official files they do not have the expertise to analyse and as a consequence launch into suppositions which defame the innocent.

I'll drink to that.
Good night internet fora 

[ShiningInLuz]

One can see that in the context of the theory put forward that Madeleine was killed in the area of the sofa the markers on the wall look pretty horrific.

In my opinion a perfect illustration of the reason why members of the public should not be let loose on official files they do not have the expertise to analyse and as a consequence launch into suppositions which defame the innocent.

OK-dokey.

Now if I look with my eyeballs, that photo tells me, personally, that it is not Madeleine's final minutes.

But that's not the debate.

I spent hours on nailing why the McCanns at Chaplins was rubbish, but it still floats to the top on my blog.

I would estimate I spent 10 days on why the CEOP story about Madeleine disappeared or died before 3 May 2007 is nonsense.  It refuses to go away.

I cannot prevent either piece of flotsam from surfacing, but I can provide the evidence on both.  Best I can do.

I don't have the evidence on the 'bloodspatter photograph'.  When I get it, which I intend to do, the rumours will still surface.

I would simply like to have a convincing tale about the provenance of this photo and what it is actually showing.

[mercury]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BLOOD.htm

There is repeated reference to "altered wavelength light" used on the walls  in this report. Dont quote me but isnt that what police use to see traces of blood that have been washed away? Obviously any results were negative.

[Brietta]

OK-dokey.

Now if I look with my eyeballs, that photo tells me, personally, that it is not Madeleine's final minutes.

But that's not the debate.

I spent hours on nailing why the McCanns at Chaplins was rubbish, but it still floats to the top on my blog.

I would estimate I spent 10 days on why the CEOP story about Madeleine disappeared or died before 3 May 2007 is nonsense.  It refuses to go away.

I cannot prevent either piece of flotsam from surfacing, but I can provide the evidence on both.  Best I can do.

I don't have the evidence on the 'bloodspatter photograph'.  When I get it, which I intend to do, the rumours will still surface.

I would simply like to have a convincing tale about the provenance of this photo and what it is actually showing.

The numbers correspond to the areas swabbed and sent to the FSS for testing. The test results were negative for Madeleine's DNA.  She neither bled on the wall nor on the tiles or the couch.

[Brietta]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BLOOD.htm

There is repeated reference to "altered wavelength light" used on the walls  in this report. Dont quote me but isnt that what police use to see traces of blood that have been washed away? Obviously any results were negative.

I missed that bit, Mercury, and can't be bothered reading through it again for context.  Do you know if that was in reference to the use of luminol?

[mercury]

I missed that bit, Mercury, and can't be bothered reading through it again for context.  Do you know if that was in reference to the use of luminol?

I dont know,sorry

[lordpookles]

Interesting read Mercury. Skim reading it appears the light they used to detect forensics does not detect blood per se? And reading through seems to suggest the team involved were instructed not to use agents; I guess like luminol, which would indicate the type of material discovered...

[mercury]

Interesting read Mercury. Skim reading it appears the light they used to detect forensics does not detect blood per se? And reading through seems to suggest the team involved were instructed not to use agents; I guess like luminol, which would indicate the type of material discovered...

Do you have a quote for that? What else could it detect then?

As to being instructed not to use agents, no idea, maybe something to do with Martin Grime sayng Luminol can stop the blood dog detecting invisible to the eye blood? I really dont know.A more knowledgable person on luminol and different lights used might be able to help.

As regards your blog SIL maybe some f the comments can be answered wth a request for any evidence that there was blood on the walls?

[Carana]

What may be perpetuating some confusion is that McCannpjfiles has named certain documents "blood" or "blood spatters", when whatever the tiny traces were could not be forensically identified as such.

The large dark blobs are actually CSI number markers, placed close to the tiny traces of potential interest. 



According to the request by the officers of the DIC Portimao present at the location,
the undersigned should proceed to inspect, "by naked eye" [in natural light] and
through the use of a light source that can alter wavelengths appropriately for the job,
and to the recovery of all spots [stains; marks] existing on the floor and on the wall of the living room next to the place from where there were previously lifted and collected four floor tiles, and on the back of the blue, cloth-upholstered sofas that were next to that wall.[/i]
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BLOOD.htm

The PJ had a "Projectina" that they waved around the Cipriano home (it's a brand with several products, but in context would be the UV torch).

Isto porque foi através de muitos outros elementos de prova que se concluiu por ser sangue da menor aquele que foi colhido na casa, em nada se relacionando esses vestígios hemáticos com os colhidos pela técnica da projectina (que faz surgir outros fluidos corporais).
(From one of the Cipriano rulings)


Possibly this one or an older version:
Crime Scene Lamp SL-450
http://www.ultra-forensictechnology.com/csi


UV light:

Ultraviolet light analysis and other optical examination techniques are recommended by the Federal Bureau of Investigation guidelines as the first choice to examine biologically contaminated evidence. This is because ultraviolet analysis is not destructive. It allows precise images and preliminary identification of the evidence before other analytical methods, such as luminol or washing solutions, are applied.

Body fluids such as saliva, semen, vaginal fluids, urine, and perspiration give off fluorescent light when illuminated by a source of ultraviolet light, which is a very efficient method for detecting such stains in a crime scene or in objects collected from the scene, such as clothing, towels, bed sheets, or decorative items. Even dried stains become fluorescent under UV light.

Dead link - I'll add it if I find it.
ETA: http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3448300577.html


Harrison didn't seem to think using Luminol would be a good idea:

Deploy the CSI dog to search the house to locate any human blood.
This will act in support of the forensic examination already completed.
An inhibiting factor will be on areas where Luminol has been used.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

[Carana]

Do you have a quote for that? What else could it detect then?

As to being instructed not to use agents, no idea, maybe something to do with Martin Grime sayng Luminol can stop the blood dog detecting invisible to the eye blood? I really dont know.A more knowledgable person on luminol and different lights used might be able to help.

As regards your blog SIL maybe some f the comments can be answered wth a request for any evidence that there was blood on the walls?

Amaral's book? ;)



Keela didn't even react to the wall.

On this date a new sniffer dog inspection was carried out in the apartment mentioned above, with the help of the dog Keela who detects human blood remains. The activity produced the following results:

19.19 The dog "marked" an area of tiles in the living room, next to the window and behind the sofa.

19.20 The dog "marked" the lower part of the left white coloured curtain of the window behind the sofa.
08 Processos Vol VIII Page 2190
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EDDIE-KEELA.htm

[Carana]

Interesting read Mercury. Skim reading it appears the light they used to detect forensics does not detect blood per se? And reading through seems to suggest the team involved were instructed not to use agents; I guess like luminol, which would indicate the type of material discovered...

From what I can gather, blood doesn't fluoresce under a normal UV torch, apparently (but it can reveal potential blood by contrast with the surroundings).

An interesting thread here:
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/finding-blood-with-uv-light.388224/

http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/alternatelightsources.html