Wandering Off Topic

[G-Unit]

You’re right, Kate even acknowledges that her comment may sound unfair.

It didn't just sound unfair, it was unfair in my opinion. There's always two sides to every story but for this 'victim' only her opinion matters it seems.

'They seemed bewildered and out of their depth'. Perhaps because the group weren't making much sense?

"It's always hard to get sense out of panicking people. When you're scared and pumped full of adrenaline you react like a child. You assume everyone knows what you know. They were hard to get sense out of."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1568477/Portuguese-police-admit-Madeleine-circus.html

'with communication hampered by the language barrier'.
Well that wasn't the fault of the GNR officers, and there was an interpreter there.

'precious time passing'.
I think the most precious time had already passed; 1.5 hours since the time they thought their child had disappeared until the call to the police. Enough time for her to be in Spain. It was already too late to think of closing borders and airports. Again, no fault of the GNR.

[G-Unit]

You are nit-picking IMO.

"While the concepts of race and ethnicity are considered to be separate in contemporary social science, the two terms have a long history of equivalence in both popular usage and older social science literature. "Ethnicity" is often used in a sense close to one traditionally attributed to "race": the division of human groups based on qualities assumed to be essential or innate to the group (e.g. shared ancestry or shared behavior). Therefore, racism and racial discrimination are often used to describe discrimination on an ethnic or cultural basis, independent of whether these differences are described as racial. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

I think we all know the difference between racial and cultural differences these days  - or we should, imo. 

[Venturi Swirl]

I think we all know the difference between racial and cultural differences these days  - or we should, imo.

I think you've missed the point of my post but never mind, it doesn't really matter - call it xenophobia, call it racism, it amounts to pretty much the same thing. 

[Venturi Swirl]

She has every right to express herself, her feelings and frustrations in her book in any way she sees fit.


Yes ....the same applies  for posters on here - who should not be called mccann bashers.

Just because they don't believe maddie was abducted.

When was the last time anyone on here called you a McCann basher? 

[Venturi Swirl]

It didn't just sound unfair, it was unfair in my opinion. There's always two sides to every story but for this 'victim' only her opinion matters it seems.

'They seemed bewildered and out of their depth'. Perhaps because the group weren't making much sense?

"It's always hard to get sense out of panicking people. When you're scared and pumped full of adrenaline you react like a child. You assume everyone knows what you know. They were hard to get sense out of."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1568477/Portuguese-police-admit-Madeleine-circus.html

'with communication hampered by the language barrier'.
Well that wasn't the fault of the GNR officers, and there was an interpreter there.

'precious time passing'.
I think the most precious time had already passed; 1.5 hours since the time they thought their child had disappeared until the call to the police. Enough time for her to be in Spain. It was already too late to think of closing borders and airports. Again, no fault of the GNR.

It's her book, therefore it's her opinion that matters to her - why should a book about HER recollection of events strive to see everything from everyone else's point of view also?  Where does it say in her book that only her opinion matters anyway?  And where in the passage quoted does she lay the blame at the feet of the GNR?  She acknowledges that they realised later the GNR were not responsible for criminal investigations.  sheesh, give the woman a break for once in your life!

[Carana]

Personally, I found Tony Parson's "sardine-munching" op-ed disgraceful. I'm not all suprised that Portugal was offended (with the help of the PT tabloids).

No consideration for how that could affect public  / diplomatic relations regarding a missing chld.

I wonder how much he earned for that? £200-300?

Hopkins in drag.

IMO.

ETA: corrected: it wasn't the Daily Mail for once, but the Mirror.

[Brietta]

Personally, I found Tony Parson's "sardine-munching" op-ed disgraceful. I'm not all suprised that Portugal was offended (with the help of the PT tabloids).

No consideration for how that could affect public  / diplomatic relations regarding a missing chld.

I wonder how much he earned for that? £200-300?

Hopkins in drag.

IMO.

ETA: corrected: it wasn't the Daily Mail for once, but the Mirror.

I don't recall having read the article by Tony Parsons in any great depth if at all  http://themaddiecasefiles.com/oh-up-yours-senor-tony-parsons-daily-mirror-19-10--t2347.html but I see it attracted 485 complaints to the Press Complaints Commission which appears to break the record for 2007.

I am at a loss to see why Madeleine and her family have been on the receiving end of eleven years of criticism, not for anything for which they can reasonably be held responsible but because someone else voiced his opinion.

However ill judged one might think it to have been ... doesn't the apparent furore voicing it appears to have caused up to the present day, for example still being mentioned on our forum today ... fly in the face of the 'freedom of speech' principle epitomised by the ubiquitous ...
1.Everyone shall possess the right to freely express and publicise his thoughts in words, images or by any other means, as well as the right to inform others, inform himself and be informed without hindrance or discrimination 2.Exercise of the said rights shall not be hindered or limited by any type or form of censorship Constitution of the Portuguese Republic, Article 37.º

Or is that only for those and such as those?

[slartibartfast]

I know this thread is wandering off topic, but can we keep it reasonably civil and not use it as an opportunity to have a go at other posters.

[G-Unit]

Personally, I found Tony Parson's "sardine-munching" op-ed disgraceful. I'm not all suprised that Portugal was offended (with the help of the PT tabloids).

No consideration for how that could affect public  / diplomatic relations regarding a missing chld.

I wonder how much he earned for that? £200-300?

Hopkins in drag.

IMO.

ETA: corrected: it wasn't the Daily Mail for once, but the Mirror.

Why blame the man who wrote the article and not the rag which published it, and therefore endorsed it?

There was a schoolboy error in the headline 'Oh, Up Yours, Senor'. Portuguese men are Senhors; Senors are Spanish men.

He blames the Portuguese Police, their media, the people and the Ambassador himself for any damage to diplomatic relations between the two countries. The Ambassador's crime, apparently, was to mention that the McCanns left their children home alone. Like many others, Parson's sees this as a 'mistake' for which the loss of their daughter is punishment enough. No acknowledgement that others making similar 'mistakes' have been prevented by the authorities from seeing their children subsequently.

It is the fault of the spectacularly stupid, cruel Portuguese police. I have never much cared for the convention of calling cops "pigs" or "filth", but I am happy to make an exception.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/oh-up-yours-senor-516864

I wonder which Portuguese newspapers you class as 'tabloids'? I am of the opinion there is only one tabloid newspaper in Portugal.

I prefer the voice of reason;

The McCanns, it is hinted and sometimes expressed explicitly, cannot possibly be treated fairly under this inadequate Portuguese system. There is a touch of arrogant xenophobia here, as if Portugal was some backward banana republic and, even more inaccurately, as if England and Wales's system of criminal justice, from police investigation to trial, was wonderful and totally free of miscarriages of justice.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/sep/10/uk.pressandpublishing

[slartibartfast]

Why blame the man who wrote the article and not the rag which published it, and therefore endorsed it?

There was a schoolboy error in the headline 'Oh, Up Yours, Senor'. Portuguese men are Senhors; Senors are Spanish men.

He blames the Portuguese Police, their media, the people and the Ambassador himself for any damage to diplomatic relations between the two countries. The Ambassador's crime, apparently, was to mention that the McCanns left their children home alone. Like many others, Parson's sees this as a 'mistake' for which the loss of their daughter is punishment enough. No acknowledgement that others making similar 'mistakes' have been prevented by the authorities from seeing their children subsequently.

It is the fault of the spectacularly stupid, cruel Portuguese police. I have never much cared for the convention of calling cops "pigs" or "filth", but I am happy to make an exception.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/oh-up-yours-senor-516864

I wonder which Portuguese newspapers you class as 'tabloids'? I am of the opinion there is only one tabloid newspaper in Portugal.

I prefer the voice of reason;

The McCanns, it is hinted and sometimes expressed explicitly, cannot possibly be treated fairly under this inadequate Portuguese system. There is a touch of arrogant xenophobia here, as if Portugal was some backward banana republic and, even more inaccurately, as if England and Wales's system of criminal justice, from police investigation to trial, was wonderful and totally free of miscarriages of justice.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/sep/10/uk.pressandpublishing

There appears to be that undercurrent of nationalism surrounding the case from the U.K. side. The PT like most countries that depends significantly on tourism has got used to the ways of its numerous visitors.

[Mr Gray]

Why blame the man who wrote the article and not the rag which published it, and therefore endorsed it?

There was a schoolboy error in the headline 'Oh, Up Yours, Senor'. Portuguese men are Senhors; Senors are Spanish men.

He blames the Portuguese Police, their media, the people and the Ambassador himself for any damage to diplomatic relations between the two countries. The Ambassador's crime, apparently, was to mention that the McCanns left their children home alone. Like many others, Parson's sees this as a 'mistake' for which the loss of their daughter is punishment enough. No acknowledgement that others making similar 'mistakes' have been prevented by the authorities from seeing their children subsequently.

It is the fault of the spectacularly stupid, cruel Portuguese police. I have never much cared for the convention of calling cops "pigs" or "filth", but I am happy to make an exception.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/oh-up-yours-senor-516864

I wonder which Portuguese newspapers you class as 'tabloids'? I am of the opinion there is only one tabloid newspaper in Portugal.

I prefer the voice of reason;

The McCanns, it is hinted and sometimes expressed explicitly, cannot possibly be treated fairly under this inadequate Portuguese system. There is a touch of arrogant xenophobia here, as if Portugal was some backward banana republic and, even more inaccurately, as if England and Wales's system of criminal justice, from police investigation to trial, was wonderful and totally free of miscarriages of justice.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/sep/10/uk.pressandpublishing

  if you are going to quote and praise  the guardian then you should quote the whole paragraph as I have done............


The McCanns, it is hinted and sometimes expressed explicitly, cannot possibly be treated fairly under this inadequate Portuguese system. There is a touch of arrogant xenophobia here, as if Portugal was some backward banana republic and, even more inaccurately, as if England and Wales's system of criminal justice, from police investigation to trial, was wonderful and totally free of miscarriages of justice. Yes, they do things differently, and I don't deny that they may, possibly, have made a mess of their inquiries and been unfair to the McCanns. But none of that is yet clear, and the media ought not to assume it.


it isnt as supportive of the portuguese police as you imply

[slartibartfast]

  if you are going to quote and praise  the guardian then you should quote the whole paragraph as I have done............


The McCanns, it is hinted and sometimes expressed explicitly, cannot possibly be treated fairly under this inadequate Portuguese system. There is a touch of arrogant xenophobia here, as if Portugal was some backward banana republic and, even more inaccurately, as if England and Wales's system of criminal justice, from police investigation to trial, was wonderful and totally free of miscarriages of justice. Yes, they do things differently, and I don't deny that they may, possibly, have made a mess of their inquiries and been unfair to the McCanns. But none of that is yet clear, and the media ought not to assume it.


it isnt as supportive of the portuguese police as you imply

Hmmm.

[Mr Gray]

There appears to be that undercurrent of nationalism surrounding the case from the U.K. side. The PT like most countries that depends significantly on tourism has got used to the ways of its numerous visitors.

although the uk tabloids went to far...as they did in their reporting of the mccanns...I think some criticism of the PJ was quite justified

[Venturi Swirl]

There appears to be that undercurrent of nationalism surrounding the case from the U.K. side. The PT like most countries that depends significantly on tourism has got used to the ways of its numerous visitors.

There also appears to be a curious anti-British undercurrent from Brits who doubt the McCanns, who also seem quite defensive of even the slightest criticism directed at anything Portuguese.

[Venturi Swirl]

Hmmm.

That was written in the immediate aftermath of the McCanns being made arguidos.  Even I assumed the PJ must have had SOME grounds for their suspicions.  Turns out there were none and as it turned out the PJ did make a mess of their enquiries so....