Forensics

[mrswah]

Would Darragh Bewell even remember what Jo was wearing that evening? Ten months later? From my own experience,  men are hopeless at such things!!!! I bet my hubby can't remember what I was wearing yesterday.

[AerialHunter]

There is "NO" Risk AH.... where's the Risk????

Darragh Bewell is the only physical presence in court out of all the people sat at "The Table" in "The Bristol Ram Pub".. out of the 7 people sat at the table along with Joanna Yeates ... That is 6 men and 1 woman did all these people give witness statements ??

Three i can find: Darragh Bewell
                        Elizabeth Chandler
                        Micheal Brow

A few things first.... I cannot imagine anyone of Joanna Yeates friends or associates sitting through a trial and looking at pictures of her which are shown to the jury, of her dead.... No-one is going to attend court..

No-one who gave a witness statement of her friends/ associates is going to be sat in the public gallery.
Everyone whom she worked with would be at work when this trial took place....

Which leaves you with one person and one person only, who may be able to shed light on the CCTV footage at "The Bristol Ram"..


Here is where the wool can be pulled over anyones eyes....

The only person who could verify what Joanna Yeates was wearing in "The Bristol Ram" on Friday 17th December 2010 is Darragh Bewell..

Greg Reardon also would have been aware of what clothing Joanna Yeates was wearing on Friday 17th December 2010.. But we do not know at what point he definatley knew that the clothes she was discovered in differed from the clothes she wore on Friday 17th December 2010..

The only hint I have read that Greg could have known the clothes were different is when he says he was looking and tidying up to se what her plans may have been....

That suggests the clothes she wore at on Friday 17th December 2010 where still in the flat.... if she was in the same clothes he would have panicked a lot sooner.... (IMO)...

But also... Greg didn't give his witness statement in court until the 17th October 2011... he did not identify Joanna Yeates body at the mortuary... He would not be aware of what clothes she was found in until court or after maybe not at all... He may not have seen the photographs that were shown to the court...

The Pathology photographs were shown on Friday the 14th October 2011
Tanja Nickson shows her photographs on the 18th October 2011

Was Greg Reardon in Court on the 18th October 2011??  as a witness or sat with the family??

So literally no-one who gave evidence could say what Joanna Yeates was wearing when she was found  other than Dr Delaney...

Witness's do not sit in the court whilst the trial is taking place until after they have been called as you are aware AH... So looking at the dates of these events we can see how it was possible for a different CCTV Footage of Joanna Yeates in "The Bristol Ram Pub" to be shown to the jury... And Greg or Darragh not seeing this CCTV footage...

(1): 11th October 2011.. Is when the Jury view the CCTV footage of Joanna Yeates in "The Bristol Ram Pub" wearing
       a "Long Sleeved Pink Top" as described in The Press reader Article dated 11th October 2011

(2): Darragh Bewell is called to give evidence on the on the 13th October 2011

(3): Greg Reardon is called to give evidence on the 17th October 2011

So I have found an article that suggests that this footage could have been shown again... but is this the case ???

Do we know for sure that the prosecution played the CCTV Footage again for Darragh Bewell to comfirm that they were all sat having a drink on Friday 17th December 2010??

I don't personally think that it matters.....
If by magic Darragh Bewell had seen the CCTV Footage from The Ram before he went to court... would he be 100% sure that the particular footage was from Friday 17th December 2010... without thinking about it.... he'd have no real reason to question the footage (IMO)....


Was he only shown a clip of them sat around a table ??? we don't know ... The Footage we know is in three sections...

(1): Joanna Yeates exiting the toilet

(2): Joanna Yeates sitting with friends around a table

(3): Joanna Yeates leaving "The Bristol Ram Pub"..

No questions were put forward as to whether Joanna Yeates used the bathroom on that evening...  No clarification of who was sat at the table that evening was put forward...

Simple question were posed as to Joanna Yeates mood and what she had planned for that evening.... If everyone of Joanna Yeates friends and family believe that the man who has admitted manslaughter is guilty of her death... They're not suddenly going to be questioning any CCTV Footage put in front of them at all..... (IMO)...

It really is quite easy to confuse with the CCTV Footage.... we all believed that the Tesco's CCTV that we see on the internet is shown in court with that ridiculous massive writing across it... So why not Confuse with "The Bristol Ram" CCTV Footage ???

Who normally can remember what a person wore the last time they saw them.... I can't... I wouldn't remeber what my husband wore yesterday if you asked me... I could hazzard a guess.. but I wouldn't know for sure... and if the CCTV footage isn't available for viewing till possibly 10 months later, I don't believe anyone could remember what she wore... or what they wore for that matter... (IMO).. (10 Days Later would be just as difficult)..(IMO)

When was this footage of Joanna Yeates at "The Bristol Ram first released ???

If it's at court then you are talking 10 months before Darragh Bewell was at the Ram with Joanna Yeates and you are expecting that he would remember what all the people around the table wore that evening... Also who was around the table that evening.... Darragh Bewell was only at court to clarify he was in "The Bristol Ram" on Friday 17th December 2010 and the conversation he had with Joanna Yeates on the 17th December 2010... and no other reason....

Which makes it plausable that the CCTV Footage shown to the Jury of "The Bristol Ram Pub" was with Joanna Yeates wearing a Long Sleeved Top... And The Footage that we are used to seeing is from a different time altogether as these people regularly visited "The Bristol Ram Pub" for drinks after work... (IMO)....

It's also possible the only CCTV evidence Darragh Bewell saw in court is of him and Joanna Yeates going to the ATM.... You really need someone who attended court on the day Darragh Bewell gave evidence to clarify what CCTV Footage was shown to Darragh Bewell...


http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8825277/Court-shown-Joanna-Yeates-bar-CCTV.html

You do have a coherent argument, to a point. As Mrs Wah points out recollection of what she was wearing might be difficult but because of the dreadful outcome I'm sure the people present will recollect if the video around the table is the correct one. Perhaps we are going to have to track them down and see if one of them might speak to us directl!

AH

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You do have a coherent argument, to a point. As Mrs Wah points out recollection of what she was wearing might be difficult but because of the dreadful outcome I'm sure the people present will recollect if the video around the table is the correct one. Perhaps we are going to have to track them down and see if one of them might speak to us directl!

AH

I hope you do AH..... This whole case is WRONG... And My hands are still waving ... I believe that Dr Vincent Tabak is INNOCENT... 

There was never any real test to the evidence that was brought to trial.... everyone lay down like a new pup waiting for its tummy to be tickled... and then just rolled over...

Somebody needs to test the evidence... (IMO)....

And I have now more than 1000 questions that need answering..... 

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You do have a coherent argument, to a point. As Mrs Wah points out recollection of what she was wearing might be difficult but because of the dreadful outcome I'm sure the people present will recollect if the video around the table is the correct one. Perhaps we are going to have to track them down and see if one of them might speak to us directl!

AH

 
I have enhanced the image which I have attached there appears to be possibly 9 people sat around the table.... Even though it's possible to make out the people in the original image from "The Mail"....

(1) Coloured Green .... Appears to be a young adult sat in the corner.... I say this because she/he .. I think she...  Is not involved in the conversation and The adult woman sat next to her has her back to her..... There is another option which I'll come back too...

(9): Looks Like a bald headed man with what appears to be a womans arm around him....


Now when you play the video of 'The Bristol Ram... you hardly notice the young adult/child in the corner.... not only that you cannot see what appears to be a balding man (9)....

Has this CCTV image been over layed on top of another CCTV Footage... bleeding through 2 EXTRA people sat at the table ???

The young adult is in the corner always... Are children allowed in "The Bristol Ram" in the Evening????

Yesterday.... I thought that there were 7 people sat at the table.... But looking at what I have uncovered today... There appears to be 9 people sat at the table.... Did they all give witness statements ?????


Who is actually sat at the table on Friday 17th December 2010 as depicted in The Official Police CCTV Footage released from The Bristol Ram ????


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2048622/Vincent-Tabak-trial-Pictures-Joanna-Yeates-drinking-night-died.html

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We know that Joanna Yeates had a Handbag with her.... Yet NO MENTION of this HANDBAG is ever stated in court.... We hear of the "Rucksack" but not the Handbag.....

Then I was looking for something about a TV program I saw "Luther"... But I didn't find what I was looking for.. But came across this.... Which peeked my Interest....

It has always been claimed by the Police that Joanna Yeates Murder was a Sexually Motivated Murder.... And even Mark Wiilliams Thomas found that an odd statement that the Police had not ruled out a 'Sexual Motive" when no sexual assault had taken place.......

Well I'm going to give you one....

Having presented us with a ‘killer of the week' formula so far, the fourth instalment of BBC One's Luther introduces us to this episode's rouge, a middle-aged serial killer with a fetish for sniffing women's handbags. I'm being serious.

Apparently, the act of sniffing a dead woman's handbag acts as an aphrodisiac of sorts for the otherwise incontinent chap.

Now in a way.. this is interesting and could make sense....

(A): Was Glenis Caruthers Handbag Missing?? or any other item belonging to Glenis Caruthers?

(B): Joanna Yeates was Missing A sock which could be the trophy,... But where is her handbag??

(C): Was Melanie Hall's handbag Missing ??

If Ann Reddrop behaves in a way that she 100% believes that Joanna Yeates was "Murdered" then was Ann Reddrop Head of The Complex Crime Unit.. looking into a 'Serial Killer'???? A Serial Killer who doesn't sexually assault his victims.... Yet gets his Sexual Thrills from a different act altogether...


I never understood 'WHY" The Police never mention Joanna Yeates Handbag.... Or on Their website.... Glenis Caruthers Handbag...

Ok... I'm just looking for an Article on whether or not Melanie Hall had her handbag Missing... And I find this Interview.....  It's an OMG....

I'll come back to the handbags.......


Why is it that all the Police Officer Have similar names??? And these Police Officers are in charge of Similar cases??

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/melanie-hall-unsolved-murder-bath-103519

DSI Andy Bevan...  Transcript from the video....

My Name Is Detective Superintendent Andy Bevan and I am leading the investigation in to The Murder Of Melanie Hall

Gareth Bevan was the DCI Investigating The Murder of Melanie Hall... This is really weird... Remember the linkedIn photo I showed you all of DCI Phil Jones Retiring from Avon and Somerset Police... And The Photo looked nothing like the DCI Phil Jones we all know... Well... whats with all the confusion surrounding the murders of all these woman?????

( I'm sure the link will disappear...)

Ok Handbags...... I'm attaching an image of DSI Andrew Bevan holding a poster of Melanie Hall... And yes... her Handbag is missing.... !!!!!


Question.... Where is Joanna Yeates handbag that she goes into to get her money when she is at Bargain Booze.... A Handbag that is not too disimilar to Melanie Halls Handbag that is also Missing!!!!! which I have again attached an Image of Melanie Hall's bag... being 'A Long Strapped" Black Bag'... Just like The Image I have posted of Joanna Yeates In "Stuttgard wearing he Long Strapped Black Bag....

The same 'Long Strapped Black bag" that is NOT MENTIONED at all at trial..... "WHY Is that...... Was it "Missing"????

Did Glenis Caruthurs have a Long Strapped Handbag ??

So.... were Avon and Somerset Police ...actually looking for "A Serial Killer" with 'A Handbag" fetish when there twin track investigation was taking place ?????

It's not out of the realms of Impossiblity... More Probable than DCI Phil Jones Doing a a Full Investigation into Dr Vincent Tabak's Involvement with the death of Joanna Yeates in 6 hours.... And using a Tardis to time travel.... (IMO)..


AH... You know what to look for 

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/melanie-hall-unsolved-murder-bath-103519

http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/luther/9825/luther-episode-4-review


Edit... If you haven't been following all that has been said about Ann Redropp and her 100% belief that Joanna Yeates was "Murdered"... read this...

 http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8060.255


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Just to prove a point..... Claudia Lawerence....

However her GHD hair straighteners are missing from her home. Det Supt Malyn said it was unlikely Claudia would have had them with her in her blue and grey Karrimor bag, which is yet to be found.

Yet the last image they show of Claudia walking home is of her with A Handbag!!!!!

https://www.yorkmix.com/news/crime/claudia-lawrence-disappearance-police-reveal-fresh-clues-five-years-on/

[Leonora]

Just to prove a point..... Claudia Lawerence....

Yet the last image they show of Claudia walking home is of her with A Handbag!!!!!

https://www.yorkmix.com/news/crime/claudia-lawrence-disappearance-police-reveal-fresh-clues-five-years-on/

"Detective Superintendent Dai Malyn, Head of the Major Crime Unit, said: “A primary focus in any suspected homicide investigation is that of the lifestyle of the victim concerned."

A Karrimor bag is a lifestyle accessory. What do we know about Joanna Yeates's accessories? Precious little, it seems to me. Certainly not the brand of her handbag, nor her "purse". The message that has been rammed down our throats has been that Joanna's murder was in no way connected to her lifestyle. That the person convicted of killing her, Vincent Tabak, worked in the same professional line as Joanna, the architectural line, could have been interpreted as a lifestyle connection - but no one ever made this connection. Right from the outset, Bristol Detectives seemed uninterested in lifestyle clues to her fate, and concentrated instead on (1) her landlord, and (2) her neighbour.

[John]

Given the amount of thread cleaning which has been required recently, posters should ensure that their comments are relevant to the thread they intend to post on.  A single comment can take a thread off at a tangent so please bear this in mind.

Your cooperation is greatly appreciated.

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Whilst still trying to establish the height of the kitchen window in Joanna Yeates kitchen... I saw something that I don't know quite how I managed to over look....

I have sort of mentioned the kitchen Window before... But this time I have zoomed in and circled the offending part of the picture....


I have attached the image from The estate agents... which clearly show the blind down....

So... we need to go back to where it's mentioned at trial that the Blind was "Broken"!!!

The kitchen blind was broken and so stayed up all the time, as Greg Reardon had
confirmed.

Now that quote you can take one of two ways.... The clear statement that the blind was broken...... oR it was broken and always stayed up...
Now did Greg confirm only that the blind was broken.... Or did he confirm that the blind was not only broken but stayed  up all the time....


It is possible the blind was broken and it was 'Down all the time... And I believe the  2 images support this....

Image 1... which I have circled... Shows the strings to the blind wrapped around the wooden strap which would normally cover the metal working.. But It appear to be assisting the blind in being held in an upright position and maybe tided centrally at the top of the window casing....!!!! (IMO)..

Image 2... The original Estate Agent photo of the blind being down.... Now i believe that this is it's broken position..... (IMO)...

Image 1 clearly circled can indicate nothing other than the blind beling tampered with....(IMO)..


Edit.... looking at circled image whilst checking this post... It looks like there are two hooks holding up the Kitchen Blind... The strings go either side of what appears to be 2 hooks... And the strings are not in a natural position for what essentially should be a broken blind!!!... (IMO)


http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

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Trying to establish the heigh of the kitchen Flat 1 44 Canygne Road...

Now with a little bit of maths ... we can approximate the height..

(1): Kitchen cupboards height normally 600mm= 60cm add 10cm for feet and kick board = 70cm

(2): Individual tiles 100mm = 10 cm x 5 tiles high = 50cm

(3): Boiler height... giving it a max of 800mm = 80 cm

(4) Boiler outlet pipe ??


The boiler doesn't look particulary large for such a small flat... it's height could well be smaller ...

So to the top of the boiler you have a maximum height of 2000mm = 2 meteres  and that in old money = 6 foot 7 inches... The kitchen could well be smaller... i need to work out the make of the boiler....

It is possible that the actual room height is 2:meters high .....

I think the boiler is smaller than 800mm because the flat doesn't need a big boiler as there are so few radiators... The property is tiny...

If I go with the boiler being 600mm =60cm  then the whole room height changes dramatically...

(A) 70cm.. to top of units

(B): 5 tile high at 10cm = 50cm

(C) Boiler being 600mm = 60cm

Giving a total of 180 cm.... then a 20 cm gap to the roof... in old money again... 5 foot 11 inches to the top of the boiler.... Meaning Dr Vincent Tabak would be too tall to see into this window... (IMO)..




Now you can see the relevance of the blinds position changing.... Dr Vincent Tabak being 6 foot 4 inches tall would not have noticed Joanna Yeates as he passed by... he would have needed to bend down to gain eye contact with her... which them being stranger seems highly unlikely.... (IMO)..

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Where is Joanna Yeates bag???

A simple question... I have attached 2 images of her at her Graduation... her Dad is holding one image... Both these images show that Joanna Yeates Carried a Shoulder Bag....

Yet this shoulder Bag is Missing " From all Police inquires... And is not mentioned at court...

Did they ever ask Dr Vincent Tabak about the bag??? NO!!!! Because they wanted evryone to believe that all Joanna Yeates carried was her "Rucksack"... But we all know she goes into her Bag at Bargain Booze.... It's underneath Her coat...

Seems that Joanna Yeates always has that bag with her!!.... So where is it???? !!

[Leonora]

Whilst still trying to establish the height of the kitchen window in Joanna Yeates kitchen... I saw something that I don't know quite how I managed to over look....

I have sort of mentioned the kitchen Window before... But this time I have zoomed in and circled the offending part of the picture....

I have attached the image from The estate agents... which clearly show the blind down....

So... we need to go back to where it's mentioned at trial that the Blind was "Broken"!!!

Now that quote you can take one of two ways.... The clear statement that the blind was broken...... oR it was broken and always stayed up...
Now did Greg confirm only that the blind was broken.... Or did he confirm that the blind was not only broken but stayed  up all the time....

It is possible the blind was broken and it was 'Down all the time... And I believe the  2 images support this....

Image 1... which I have circled... Shows the strings to the blind wrapped around the wooden strap which would normally cover the metal working.. But It appear to be assisting the blind in being held in an upright position and maybe tided centrally at the top of the window casing....!!!! (IMO)..

Image 2... The original Estate Agent photo of the blind being down.... Now i believe that this is it's broken position..... (IMO)...

Image 1 clearly circled can indicate nothing other than the blind beling tampered with....(IMO)..

Edit.... looking at circled image whilst checking this post... It looks like there are two hooks holding up the Kitchen Blind... The strings go either side of what appears to be 2 hooks... And the strings are not in a natural position for what essentially should be a broken blind!!!... (IMO)

http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

Counsel for the Defence, in his opening speech, is our only source for the allegation that Greg Reardon confirmed that the blind was broken and that it was always up. This confirmation doesn't appear in any account I have seen of Greg Reardon's own testimony. He did mention having seen Vincent and Tanja pass his window, but this could have occurred during daylight, when a blind, broken or not, would normally be up.

The two pictures show a blind that appears to have been "broken", but this could have occurred during after the police had taken over the flat, in the course of their search for clues. The broken blind suited Mr Clegg's defence scenario, but he was not himself under oath, so anything he said is hearsay, unless backed up by a witness who was under oath. He had certainly been given photos of the crime scene. The jury did not believe the defence's account of events, so I am sceptical about the alleged condition of this blind at the time of the events leading to Joanna's death.

[Leonora]

Trying to establish the heigh of the kitchen Flat 1 44 Canygne Road...

Now with a little bit of maths ... we can approximate the height..

(1): Kitchen cupboards height normally 600mm= 60cm add 10cm for feet and kick board = 70cm

(2): Individual tiles 100mm = 10 cm x 5 tiles high = 50cm

(3): Boiler height... giving it a max of 800mm = 80 cm

(4) Boiler outlet pipe ??

The boiler doesn't look particulary large for such a small flat... it's height could well be smaller ...

So to the top of the boiler you have a maximum height of 2000mm = 2 meteres  and that in old money = 6 foot 7 inches... The kitchen could well be smaller... i need to work out the make of the boiler....

It is possible that the actual room height is 2:meters high .....

I think the boiler is smaller than 800mm because the flat doesn't need a big boiler as there are so few radiators... The property is tiny...

If I go with the boiler being 600mm =60cm  then the whole room height changes dramatically...

(A) 70cm.. to top of units

(B): 5 tile high at 10cm = 50cm

(C) Boiler being 600mm = 60cm

Giving a total of 180 cm.... then a 20 cm gap to the roof... in old money again... 5 foot 11 inches to the top of the boiler.... Meaning Dr Vincent Tabak would be too tall to see into this window... (IMO)..

Now you can see the relevance of the blinds position changing.... Dr Vincent Tabak being 6 foot 4 inches tall would not have noticed Joanna Yeates as he passed by... he would have needed to bend down to gain eye contact with her... which them being stranger seems highly unlikely.... (IMO)..

I can't see a boiler in the picture, nor would I expect to see one in such a small kitchen. Surely a house like that would have a single boiler to heat all the flats and also to heat up the water in common storage tank to supply hot water to all the flats?

Even if Vincent had to stoop to go through the front door of her flat, he wouldn't have had to stoop to make eye contact with Joanna, as her stature was diminutive and he would have been in the middle of the path, rather than pressed up against the window with his forehead touching the lintel. Instead of being presented with solid forensic evidence placing him in her flat, the jury were taken on a guided tour of it, to help them believe the creative versions of events compiled by the lawyers, including, would you believe, his theft of a sock and a pizza.

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I can't see a boiler in the picture, nor would I expect to see one in such a small kitchen. Surely a house like that would have a single boiler to heat all the flats and also to heat up the water in common storage tank to supply hot water to all the flats?

Even if Vincent had to stoop to go through the front door of her flat, he wouldn't have had to stoop to make eye contact with Joanna, as her stature was diminutive and he would have been in the middle of the path, rather than pressed up against the window with his forehead touching the lintel. Instead of being presented with solid forensic evidence placing him in her flat, the jury were taken on a guided tour of it, to help them believe the creative versions of events compiled by the lawyers, including, would you believe, his theft of a sock and a pizza.

It's situated above the little Fire extinguisher... It's white...

[Leonora]

It's situated above the little Fire extinguisher... It's white...

That's a boiler? Surely it's a compact refrigerator, presumably with an ice cream compartment big enough to hold a pizza? I concede that refrigerators are normally situated at floor level, and boilers are normally mounted on the wall, but the landlord did have a reputation for being eccentric.