Forensics

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That's a boiler? Surely it's a compact refrigerator, presumably with an ice cream compartment big enough to hold a pizza? I concede that refrigerators are normally situated at floor level, and boilers are normally mounted on the wall, but the landlord did have a reputation for being eccentric.

I concede that something isn't quite right on this forum...  Have never been able to put my finger on it....

[mrswah]

That's a boiler? Surely it's a compact refrigerator, presumably with an ice cream compartment big enough to hold a pizza? I concede that refrigerators are normally situated at floor level, and boilers are normally mounted on the wall, but the landlord did have a reputation for being eccentric.

Both my refrigerator and my boiler are at floor level!!!

I have seen wall mounted boilers (even had one in my last house), but have never seen a wall mounted refrigerator!

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What other Evidence do we have to suggest that Joanna Yeates died at the hands of A Another..

The descriptions of Dr Delaney and joanna Yeates Flower Patterned Top suggest two possible options..

(A): She arrived home and changed her clothes herself..

(B): Someone redressed her...

I get the distinct impression that her body was clean....  There has been no talk of body fluids... Dr Delaney was not even asked about body fluids at court...

The drawings of her clothing she is found in look clean... There is NO staining... which her Jeans in particular should have been very stained...

Why didn't the Birches notice any staining... They apparently noticed her white knickers coming over her jeans... Which I believe should have been stained...

Another possible reason I believe that the Police were also of the impression that she had been cleaned and re-dressed... is the massive attention given to the shower area of Joanna Yeates home... The Forensic powder or whatever they use... Completely saturates the showers area and bath....  Where as The kitchen is apparently virtually free of this power...

Was the surrounding area that Joanna Yeates was found contaminated with body fluids?? There is No sampling that ever says that it was Joanna Yeates body fluids amongst the leaves/snow and debris...

Does this not tell us that she must have died at a different time or at least by a different hand...

Or what the police have always believed by 2 killers.... Because she would have needed to be cleaned and redressed....  To me suggesting someone she knew.... (IMO)..

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This report says Dr Delaney was at the scene earlier than I was aware.. i always thought he didn't see Joanna Yeates until he saw her at the Mortuary....

Forensic pathologist Dr Russell Delaney said he was summoned to the scene just
after midday and stayed for four hours until Jo’s body was removed in a
painstaking operation.

Coming across this Newspaper Article... which I have probably read before but didn't realise it's significance until now...

Notice he says ...Painstaking Now an operation could only be Painstaking If it was difficult to access... And NO other reason.... (IMO)..  It cannot be Painstaking lifting a body from a grass verge onto a stretcher on the road nest to her !!!!

Dr Delaney said care was taken to minimise any disruption to potential
evidence as her body was lifted. Two yellow webbing straps were fed under
her calves and lower back — using a broom handle to get them underneath.

I hadn't realised Dr Delaney saw the body being moved...

But this next part brings weird visions... I am trying to imagine this....

She was then lifted by one officer, supported by a second behind him, and
placed on an open white body bag atop an orange stretcher by the roadside.

Is this actually telling us that she is NOT already on the road????...

Why would you have an officer behind another officer ??? You wouldn't if she was being picked up from the verge as they say she was on....

Lets really look at that those statements... because i believe it is the answer !!!!!

Dr Delaney said care was taken to minimise any disruption to potential
evidence as her body was lifted.

Looking at this part first.....  It is screaming out that her body is not on the verge...... (IMO).... It is telling us she is over the wall more than likely..... (IMO)... I'll tell you why i have come to that conclusion...

When Dr Delaney has arrived... If Joanna Yeates is on the verge as they have stated... Then they would collect the evidence around her and on her before they even attempt to move her body.... even if that took all day... The Evidence is always collected first before the body gets removed...

So i am saying as they are winching her with the fire truck... they want to make sure no evidence drops from her body.... (IMO)...

Two yellow webbing straps were fed under
her calves and lower back — using a broom handle to get them underneath.

That is a weird vision.... Why would they need to fed any straps under her body to lift her from the verge ??? Two Forensic Officers could have done that with NO straps... The Position of the straps is odd.... What supported her head ??? What supported her shoulders....???

This next part of the quotes explain...

She was then lifted by one officer, supported by a second behind him, and
placed on an open white body bag atop an orange stretcher by the roadside.

So we have as I can see it... her being lifted from behind the wall... One Officer in front supporting her head and shoulders and one Officer behind helping to guide her till they can place her on the road.....

She was never on the verge...(IMO).... The Fire Officer whom we saw in his Rope Access Gear clearly indicates that he was need to access somewhere very difficult... The use of the winch I believe was to lift Joanna Yeates from where she was found and the description of where the straps were actually around Joanna Yeates body indicates that they were not lifting her from a grass verge...

Also having one officer behind the other suggest that to me also.....

Two yellow webbing straps were fed under
her calves and lower back —

Can you envisage that??? who's supporting the rest of her ...??

using a broom handle to get them underneath.

Ok... The only reason I believe they used the "Broom Handles"....  was because of the vegetation that was over the wall... I believe that there isn't a real reason to use broom handles....  I believe that they used "Broom Handles because they couldn't access her easily.. and needed to get the straps underneath her so that they could then winch her up and Officer supported her body...

The possibly found it easier to get around her calves... Then her lower back... You have to ask why these straps were never supporting her shoulders... It's almost like that was the easiest place they could attach something to be able to remove her....

This description we have been given from this report  is the closest so far to explaining how Joanna Yeates was removed from the area...

Again..

She was then lifted by one officer, supported by a second behind him, and
placed on an open white body bag atop an orange stretcher by the roadside.

Now if Joanna Yeates was lying on a grass verge.. The two Officers could have simply picked her up and placed her on the stretcher on the road...  Why the need for the straps...??? And if she was on the grass verge then I am sure that the positioning of the straps would have been far more supportive than they have been described ....

Joanna Yeates wasn't frozen to the ground.... Andrew Mott clearly tells us this in his testimony... He clearly states that seperately that ..Joanna Yeates was frozen and The ground was Frozen.. Not that Joanna Yeates was Frozen to the ground.... 

Asking the question why the need for "Straps" what did the straps actually look like.... ?? i think we envisage these straps as long straps... But maybe the aren't ... maybe they are loops that are like a harness...

I've attached an image of firemen using straps to drag people.. whom may be in buildings... (They are practicing)...

But the image shows us the straps do not need to go to the shoulder.... Joanna Yeates arms were not free.. one was wrapped around her body and one over her head...

Now if she was on a grass verge ... they wouldn't have needed to use the straps... The only reason they need to use straps would be to extract her from a position that she wasn't easily accessible.... meaning that she was  Never on The Grass Verge of Longwood lane

also meaning Dr Vincent Tabak didn't kill her..... IMO !!




Edit.... An Officer ... Doesn't have to mean "Police Officer.. Forensics Officer... Could mean Fire Officer !!!!

Why didn't Dr Delaney say Forensic's Officer ??? or Forensic examiner ??

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/840925/jury-see-photos-of-jo-yeates-body/

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Re reading my above post..... 

She was then lifted by one officer, supported by a second behind him, and
placed on an open white body bag atop an orange stretcher by the roadside.

Dr Delaney is telling us that it is the Officer who places her on The Grass Verge...

What is by "The Road Side" ???? The Grass Verge It's the only other area by "The Road Side" !!!!

He doesn't say places her on the road.... why remove her from The Verge to place her on the Verge ??? Doesn't make sense ...

The Officers are the ones who place her on The Grass Verge (IMO).. as Described by Dr Delaney

Blowing apart the STORY that was given as an explanation in court.... Why have they hidden where she was found ????

Dr Vincent Tabak did not kill Joanna Yeates... I have never believed he did!!!!

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Two yellow webbing straps were fed under
her calves and lower back — using a broom handle to get them underneath.

Joanna Yeates upper body is only supported i believe by the Officer

Now it is just as easy for this Officer To have raised her top as he struggles to take control of a body that is being winched....

There are apparently.. "NO".. Picture taken when the straps are put under neath Joanna Yeates....  Yet plenty when she is the on The Grass Verge

Tabak's QC, William Clegg, questioned why photographs were not taken of a broom being used to arrange straps underneath the body so her body could be taken away.

"I can't comment on why that was the case," Mr Mott said.

No-one would have been able to access the area that she was found in to take photographs... There really should be no reason for them NOT to have photographs of Joanna Yeates.... Andrew Mott cannot comment because he's probably been told not to comment on that (IMO)....

Ever time you put together bits of information from the trial you get a clearer picture.... Joanna Yeates was NOT found on The Grass Verge between them all they make that abundantly clear ...(IMO)...



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/killer-weeps-over-images-of-joanna-yeates-body-2370602.html

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OMG...... Skimming and NOT taking the Information in again.... I have missed this so many times.... Partly my own fault I believe... when I have envisaged Andrew Mott and his trusty "Broom Handle"... wielding it about....

MY Fault!!... Well not really... I have mis-read the information...

Andrew Mott never actually says that it is He who used the Broom Handles... In the descriptions he only says:

"The straps that we used are hooked around the broom so it would have to be the straps that come into contact with the body."

He doesn't say The Straps that "I" used...  He didn't remove Joanna Yeates !!!

Couple that quote with this quote

She was then lifted by one officer, supported by a second behind him, and
placed on an open white body bag atop an orange stretcher by the roadside.

The Officer Is a Fire Officer... there's no two ways about it... (IMO)... Andrew Mott Is not involved in the placing of The Straps or any Broom Handles whatsoever !!! There are "NO" photographs of anyone in a Forensic suit using Broom Handles And as the Forensic Officer I would say that he would have a Forensic Suit on to stop Cross Contamination....

Two yellow webbing straps were fed under
her calves and lower back — using a broom handle to get them underneath.

Andrew Mott maybe sees what takes place .... but maybe not!!!... The straps were not the Polices equipment they were The Fire Services Equipment as they list on the PDF...

With the descriptions from both Andrew Mott and Dr Delaney we know that Joanna Yeates had to be elsewhere than the Grass Verge and Andrew Mott doesn't ever say that he helps to Recover Joanna Yeates... when if she was on the Grass Verge he should have .... There should be photographs of him and his unwieldly Broom Handle.... But they are NOT ANY... That's because it was The Fire Officer... whom attached the straps with broom handles and helped lift her from "Over The Wall"... Possibly depositing the blood there at the same time as the lifted her over the wall...as she was thawing

Another thought I have just had.......

The Fire Officers that obviously helped to recover Joanna Yeates from over the WALL were.. perspiring... as we can see one wiping his brow....

This Operation is difficult.... Is The other 'Profile " that they find on the body of Joanna Yeates attributed to One of the Fire Service personel?????



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I'd like to look at this quote again....

The straps that we used are hooked around the broom so it would have to be the straps that come into contact with the body."

Now this reminds me of what The Fire Officer would have said.... Did the Fire Service give Avon and Somerset Police a report as to how they extracted Joanna Yeates from over the wall???

Is there a written explanation somewhere from the Fire Service on which explains the  extract of Joanna Yeates ???

It's like Andrew Mott is repeating something that he has read.... Not actually what he did!!!! ...(IMO)...

The Fire Services role in this highly publicised Case... is played right down when it comes to trial... In fact i am not sure if there are any Fire Service statements read out in court.... But I bet there are  Fire Service statements made (IMO)...

EDIT.......  OMG.... "The Straps That We used Are Hooked Around The Broom!!!!"....

That says a lot more than I first thought...  Remember this ...

Two yellow webbing straps were fed under
her calves and lower back — using a broom handle to get them underneath.

I just envisaged them poking the straps under her body with the Broom Handles and missed them actually using the handles to hold together the straps....

The straps are hooked around the Broom.... How does that happen???  I believe that the description of how they removed Joanna Yeates was not complete...

I just asked my hubby to envisage the straps hooked around broom handles.... And Bless him he came up with the answer .....

They had to use Metal Carabiners to connect the two straps for extraction... I'll again explain... My hubby can be helpful on this if I don't cabbage his head with it....

How can a couple of Broom Handles support the weight of a dead adult????? They were only used to place the straps underneath Joanna Yeates and to get the too loops of the straps together.... So they can then use the Carabiner to secure the loops together... Then winching her up over the wall.... (IMO)....


 I've attached an image of some plain straps.... And a quote as to their use...

Why You Need a Rescue Strap

All firefighters should consider carrying a Cearley Rescue Strap in their turnout because of its many applications to quickly secure a downed firefighter who must be dragged, lifted, or lowered. It can also be used as a hasty chest harness to pluck victims from above-ground windows or during swiftw..er operations, or even as an emergency harness for self-rescue from upper floors. It has proven itself with our department when lives depend on quick and simple securing of victims for evacuation. — Battalion Chief Larry Collins, Los Angeles Country Fire Department, Urban Search & Rescue Company

http://www.cmcrescue.com/equipment/cearley-rescue-strap/

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Just to be really clear on this.... I know I repeat myself... But these things have been skimmed over so many time....

Dr Delaney says:

She was then lifted by one officer, supported by a second behind him, and
placed on an open white body bag atop an orange stretcher by the roadside.

I have to use Good Old Wiki for my definition.......

Roadside
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
   Look up roadside in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.
Roadside is a term synonymous with road verge or shoulder (road).

It may also refer to:

Roadside, Caithness, Scotland, a village
"Roadside", a song from The Sufferer & the Witness by Rise Against
"Roadside", a 2014 song by Char Avell.

Roadside is a term synonymous with road verge or shoulder

They placed her on "The Verge"..... They being The Officers Not Dr Vincent Tabak Dr Delaney witnessed this and says this in court!!!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadside

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I knew I had read somewhere about Joanna Yeates being Redressed

Detectives had previously said there was no clear sign that Joanna, whose snow-covered body was found dumped at the roadside on Christmas Day, had been sexually assaulted. They did stress, however, that there could be a sexual motive for her killing.

Then...

The discovery of the saliva samples on her skin will add further weight to fears she was targeted by a killer who may have tried to sexually assault her before clumsily redressing her and dumping her body.

Clumsily redressing her This accounts for her Flower Patterned pink Top been raised up.... (IMO)..

Why would the paper even mention her being redressed if it she had the same clothes on as at The Ram???? Someone must have given them that information... They wouldn't have just magiced it up out of thin air!!!!!

She must have been found in different clothes and Redressed.... This is mentioned by Dr Carey..

skynewsgatherer

Dr Carey says it is very difficult to redress a dead body.

Suggesting that

(A): She was Redressed

(B): More than one person did this !!!!

Meaning that Dr Vincent Tabak did not Kill Joanna Yeates ....(IMO)....

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/224635/Joanna-Yeates-DNA-is-vital-clue

http://live-news.sky.com/Event/Live_Updates_Tabak_Cross-Examination?Page=2


The sky link takes a while to load... be patient please....

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How did Dr Carey go from this diagnosis..

Twitter
skynewsgatherer
@skynewsgatherer
In an initial report by Dr Carey he thought that Joanna may have had her nose damaged by being "forced into a soft furnishing" like a sofa.

To This.... ?????

Twitter
skynewsgatherer
@skynewsgatherer
He now thinks it could have been caused by a hand over her mouth - or a fall to the ground.

How have we gone from soft furnishing to a hard surface ??????

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Another quote to ponder:..

"The physical signs of neck compression indicate she did not die instantaneously.

 Now what does that mean???? 

"The forceful application of pressure to her neck would have been uncomfortable.



"She would have experienced difficulty in breathing and I would have expected her at some point to be in pain.

Not forgetting

Referring to the 20 seconds, Dr Delaney said: “That period would have been
sufficient to cause the signs of injury and in my opinion would be long
enough to result in her death.” Mr Clegg asked whether it would have been
impossible for Jo to scream as her neck was being squeezed.

Dr Delaney tells us exactly what has happened again..... For the marks to appear around Joanna yeates neck... 20 seconds is sufficant for this to occur...

But for death to happen you need:... I'll let good old wiki explain ...

Strangling is compression of the neck that may lead to unconsciousness or death by causing an increasingly hypoxic state in the brain.[1] Fatal strangling typically occurs in cases of violence, accidents, and is one of two main ways that hanging may cause death (alongside breaking the victim's neck).

Strangling does not have to be fatal; limited or interrupted strangling is practised in erotic asphyxia, in the choking game, and is an important technique in many combat sports and self-defence systems. Strangling can be divided into three general types according to the mechanism used:[2]

Another quote: 

As in all cases of strangulation, the rapidity of death can be affected by the susceptibility to carotid sinus stimulation.[4] Carotid sinus reflex death is sometimes considered a mechanism of death in cases of strangulation, but it remains highly disputed.[3][8] The reported time from application to unconsciousness varies from 7–14 seconds if effectively applied [9] to one minute in other cases, with death occurring minutes after unconsciousness.[3]

Joanna Yeates wasn't dead in 20 seconds... she would have been unconscious.. and would die minutes later if aid wasn't given...

Suggesting that it was someone who was aware of this technique that used it on Joanna Yeates to subdue her as there were no signs of a struggle...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strangling

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strangling

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/845725/he-held-jo-yeates-throat-for-20-seconds-to-stop-her-screaming/

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Just another little comparison for us to make sure that Dr Delaney means That the Officers left Joanna Yeates on the Verge:

She was then lifted by one officer, supported by a second behind him, and
placed on an open white body bag atop an orange stretcher by the roadside.

Now Cleggs description of what Dr Vincent Tabak did:

He tried to put the body over the wall.
It was too heavy and so he left it by the roadside

Again proving "The Roadside"... means Grass Verge meaning it wasn't Dr Vincent Tabak who put her there but the "Officers as Dr Delaney had sworn too.... (IMO)..

http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/840925/jury-see-photos-of-jo-yeates-body/

Edit..... That's why the only image of Joanna Yeates by the roadside in the snow I couldn't understand why the drawing... showing the snow being so clean.... It's not her on the snow but on the white open bag.... (IMO)...

[mrswah]

www.bowlandcentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90832

According to the above, the police were examining an area of Providence Lane as well as Longwood Lane. This was reported in the Mirror. If you follow the above link, you can access the Mirror report from it. Otherwise, the link to the Mirror report does not work!!!

Has anyone heard about this before? I wonder why the police would have been looking at another area---it isn't far away from Longwood Lane: looks as if it is the continuation road on the other side of crossroads.

[mrswah]

I imagine it would have been the Fire and Rescue personnel who retrieved the body: they would have had the necessary equipment and the necessary expertise.

I know I have previously said this, but I find it very strange that Mr and Mrs Birch did not testify in court in person.

I read somewhere that Dr Delaney washed the body before conducting the post mortem:  I imagine that is normal practice. As for the body being washed before it was dumped, and/or being re-dressed, I have no idea, although it does make one wonder why the bathroom at Joanna's flat appeared to have been so thoroughly examined forensically, while the kitchen appeared not to have been.

If Vincent Tabak committed the murder and then dumped the body, he would have been filthy afterwards, particularly if he did lift the body over the wall (and it seems within the realms of possibility that somebody put it over the wall).  He would have needed to shower and wash all his clothes before setting out to meet Tanja. Did Tanja come home to find a machine load of washing, or was Vincent cunning enough to take it all to the nearest launderette?  If he killed Jo on that Friday night, he would have had to do one or the other, but this has never been mentioned.

Whether or not Vincent changed his clothes is , in my opinion, as important as whether or not Joanna changed hers.