Forensics

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Bit of wiki to start with .....

The word pendant derives from the Latin word "pendere", and Old French word "pendre", both of which translate to "to hang down". It comes in the form of a loose-hanging piece of jewellery, generally attached by a small loop to a necklace, which may be known as a "pendant necklace".

Dr Delaneys description of what Joanna Yeates was wearing .....

She had been wearing a chunky white watch with a silver necklace and pendant.

These images from the CCTv are not the best... But I cannot see a Pendant.....

But if she had a chain around her neck... surely it would have left marks in her skin from compression, but this is not mentioned ....

Was Joanna Yeates redressed ???

Officers avoided putting a tent over her body amid fears that evidence could be compromised, the jury heard.

What evidence would be compromised ?????   That really needs thinking about!!



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/killer-weeps-over-images-of-joanna-yeates-body-2370602.html

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Lyndsey Lennen

11:16 AM - 18 Oct 2011Twitter
skynewsgatherer
@skynewsgatherer
Ms Lennen describes how she took blood stained swabs from #joannayeates' chest. #VincentTabak

Twitter
skynewsgatherer
@skynewsgatherer
There were blood stains on the sole and toe of Miss Yeates' sock and on her finger nails, court hears. #Tabak

I'll add quote from Dr Delaney

There were apparent blood stains on her flower patterned pink top but no signs of injuries to her genitalia, Dr Delaney said.

So theres enough blood to have soaked through her top and onto her chest .... There is enough blood that it has to have dripped on the floor for Joanna Yeates to have stood in it so it was on the sole and toe of her sock ....

Did her bare foot also have blood on it ??? 

Who's blood was on Joanna Yeates finger nails??  How did the blood end up on Joanna Yeates finger nails ???

To have blood on the sole of her sock she had to be walking about... Not standing still whilst someone strangled her ...

How long would it take for enough blood to hit the floor so that the sole and toe of Joanna Yeates sock would have blood on it??

Where in Joanna Yeates Flat was the blood found that Joanna Yeates stood in ??? That never came to court... If there was No blood of Joanna Yeates found in her flat, then she cannot have been killed there

There would and should have been Evidence of Joanna Yeates blood in her Flat If it had been in the kitchen it happened, there would have been a foot print and sock pattern in blood visible ....

If it was on the carpet there would have to be blood soaked into the carpet, where this event happened ... No photographs of blood in the kitchen or bathroom where taken to court... No piece of carpet that had been cut out with a blood stain on had been presented to the jury....

How on earth could there be no evidence from this murder be visible in this Flat!!!!

And the only answer to that is she was abducted like her parents have always said and she was killed somewhere else ... Proving that Dr Vincent Tabak wouldn't have been able to commit this act.....(IMO)...



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/killer-weeps-over-images-of-joanna-yeates-body-2370602.html

http://live-news.sky.com/Event/Live_Updates_Vincent_Tabak_Trial3?Page=0

[John]

Interesting points I agree.  If she had blood on her fingernails are we to assume this was as a result of her putting up a fight?   Was the blood her own blood or the blood of her attacker?  Did Vincent Tabak have any fingernail marks or gouges on his body?

Do we know the answers to these questions?   &%+((£

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Twitter
skynewsgatherer
@skynewsgatherer
Photos show how leaves had been packed around her body. #joannayeates

10:46 AM - 18 Oct 2011Twitter
skynewsgatherer
@skynewsgatherer
Next witness to be called is Tanya Nixon, a forensic scientist who will talk about the blood stain to the wall #joannayeates

10:46 AM - 18 Oct 2011Twitter
skynewsgatherer
@skynewsgatherer
Ms Nixon said there was blood visible from #joannayeates' right nostril.

10:46 AM - 18 Oct 2011Twitter
skynewsgatherer
@skynewsgatherer
#VincentTabak sitting with his head resting on the front of the dock and his hands on top of his head.

10:46 AM - 18 Oct 2011Twitter
skynewsgatherer
@skynewsgatherer
Joanna's parents and boyfriend are in court listening to the evidence. #VincentTabak #JoYeates

10:46 AM - 18 Oct 2011Twitter
skynewsgatherer
@skynewsgatherer
A clot of blood and some drips of blood were found on the wall next to where Joanna's body was found. #VincentTabak

Twitter
skynewsgatherer
@skynewsgatherer
Further blood smears were found higher up on the wall according to forensic expert Tanya Nickson. #joannayeates

10:46 AM - 18 Oct 2011Twitter
skynewsgatherer
@skynewsgatherer
Blood clot was likely to have been from Joanna's nose left during an attempt to put her over the wall, court told.

10:46 AM - 18 Oct 2011Twitter
skynewsgatherer
@skynewsgatherer
Court now shown photo of Joanna's body. Her t-shirt was pushed up over her bra. #joannayeates

10:47 AM - 18 Oct 2011Twitter
skynewsgatherer
@skynewsgatherer
William Clegg,QC, now cross examining forensic scientist Tanya Nickson. #joannayeates

10:48 AM - 18 Oct 2011Twitter
skynewsgatherer
@skynewsgatherer
Brief cross examination over. Court taking a break #joannayeates

The heart doesn't pump blood after death, yet they say in court that she was dead within 20 seconds, and Dr Vincent Tabak had her around in his flat for 1 hour before going to ASDA..

How can blood be on the wall ?? How can there be blood drips??

Tanja Nickson explaining away nothing...  It may appear that it fits the circumstance ,but it doesn't ....  Blood doesn't drip when someone is dead....


If the blood on the wall was Joanna Yeates then she had to be alive when she was left on Longwood Lane.... (IMO)

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3:28 PM - 14 Oct 2011Twitter
juliareidsky
@juliareidsky
Dr Delaney says it is likely two hands were used for compression and that the other injuries also happened during compression

Dr Delaney tells court that the injuries occurred at the same time as the neck compression...

Mr Lickley went on to ask 6ft 4in Tabak to account for the many injuries suffered by Miss Yeates, including internal bruises to her ribs and back and damage to her neck muscles.

Where is the evidence in the Flat for this violent attack upon Joanna Yeates ???

Internal injuries??  How did they occur??

It sounds more like a fight than Dr Vincent Tabak walking into her Flat and strangling her straight away as the Prosecution have claimed ...

Where is the evidence of a fight with Dr Vincent Tabak??  He cannot have held both hands together and strangled her... yet Dr Delaney says it all happened at the same time ...

Why are there not any visible scratch marks on Dr Vincent Tabak ???
When he goes to ASDA there are no marks upon him...

How Bruised Ribs Happen

The most likely cause of bruised ribs is a blow to the chest. This pushes the ribs against the surrounding muscles and the impact may bruise the ribs. While the injury is referred to as bruised ribs, the majority of the pain is caused by injuries to the surrounding muscles and rib cage cartilage. In football, the injury could happen when a player is hit or when he falls on his side with the ball or a helmet between his body and the ground.

Another way in which to receive bruised ribs is:

Guest over a year ago

I got "bear-hugged" by someone the other day. She gripped me around the bottom of my rib cage and she squeezed really hard. My friend was mad at me so she wanted to hurt me and get revenge. I think that she may have fractured or even broken some of my ribs because there is intense pain there that will not go away, and I cannot breathe deep, laugh, caugh, or even walk without wincing in pain. I have to walk up stairs at school numerous times and I'm afraid I won't be able to do it. It hurts to walk or sit for even small amounts of time. What do I do?
 Reply

Is this how Joanna Yeates sustained bruising to her ribs??? someone gave her a bearhug??? That doesn't sound like anything Dr Vincent Tabak said at court... He was supposed to have just strangled her.. There was obviously alot more going on than the prosecution will have us believe...

Again I will say... If her parents say she was abducted, could this injury have occurred when they were forceibly removing her from her flat???

‘Did she get away at one point? Your hand was moving because she was moving.’

They know that Joanna Yeates must have escaped who ever it was that killed her , because of the Blood found on the sole of her sock and on the toe of her sock....

Surely Dr Vincent Tabak would be able to recall that she had escaped him???

As there was no blood evidence in Dr Vincent Tabaks Flat she couldn't have been killed there either ...

As the harrowing image of the landscape architect lying in a foetal position was shown on  court screens, Mr Lickley asked Tabak: ‘Is that what she looked like on your spare bedroom floor?’

So Joanna Yeates is bleeding enough to deposit blood on a wall apparently... yet there is No blood found on the bedroom floor of Dr Vincent Tabak, even though he was supposed to have left her there for around 1 hour

The evidence is moving further and further away from Dr Vincent Tabak being the perpetrator ..  (IMO)..

So what have we ??

(1): A possible bearhug

(2): Enough blood for Joanna Yeates to stand in and have it on the sole and toe of her sock

(3): Marks on both Joanna Yeates wrists

(4): Cut on her nose

(5): Bruised ribs

(6): Bruised back

(7): Marks that suggest she had been on a rough surface

None of these injuries relate to anything that Dr Vincent Tabak said in court... The statement of Dr Vincent Tabak on the stand, doesn't support the 'Evidence" and if people want to call it a confession... Then why doesn't this so called confession match the evidence that Dr Delaney gave in court... Not only Dr Delaney , But Lindsey Lennen and Tanja Nixon...

Question... is there some type of device that could cause internal injuries whilst leaving marks that has a rough surface ??


http://www.coreperformance.com/knowledge/injury-pain/bruised-ribs-what-you-need-to-know.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2051786/Joanna-Yeates-trial-Vincent-Tabak-driven-lust.html#ixzz4trNjNneV

http://www.steadyhealth.com/topics/symptoms-of-cracked-rib?page=6

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Joanna Yeates Mortuary picture..... I have attached the court drawing.. so if you feel I am being disrespectful don't look...

Dr Delaney did an initial examination of Joanna Yeates on the day they recovered her from Longwood Lane ...

The image is taken in the Mortuary and shows Joanna Yeates in the foetal position...

Her arms arms at chest height, her left wrist is touching her right fore arm, her left hand flops down....

Now this isn't the position in which she was found.....

Post-mortem examination pictures showed her lying on her right side with her jeans still intact but her pink top pulled up over her head, exposing her navel and her grey bra.
Her right arm was bent around her head while her left was resting straight across her body.

Now the court drawing obviously differs....  Her top is not over her head, her arms are loose by her side ... she is not wearing socks...

Why would you remove her sock and then start taking pictures ?? 

I believe this was how she was in the mortuary... when Rigor Mortis has stopped ...   Did the photographs at the scene match the photographs at the mortuary???  I do not believe that there were any photographs of Joanna Yeates in situ...

The court drawing suggests that Rigor mortis was finalising, as her arms had flopped down ....(IMO)..  And her legs are still drawn up.... If she had been frozen solid, then her head would still have her arm around it.... (IMO)..

How was the sock removed if Joanna Yeates was in the mortuary in a Frozen state ?????  It wouldn't be the first thing you would take from the body before an examination has been completed!!

Did they remove her sock at the deposition site on Longwood lane  ?? I believe it is possible.. also meaning she wasn't frozen solid as the Police have said ... Because that sock should be still on her in the Mortuary...(IMO)..


Did Dr Delaney pull her top down, to do his initial examination on Christmas day, so he would inform the Police that Joanna Yeates was strangled ??

Not only is the top removed from her head... But her head is also tilted backwards , revealing her neck area ...

If Dr Delaney did this initial examination on christmas day and this image is from that initial examination... Joanna Yeates was not Frozen Solid.... (IMO)...

Therefore she could not have been on Longwood Lane for 8 days ... Meaning Dr Vincent Tabak could not have left her there on the Friday 17th December 2010... The only day he had a few hours on his own...

Theres another puzzle also, which I find an odd statement from Dr Delaney...

11:42 AM - 14 Oct 2011Twitter
juliareidsky
@juliareidsky
Joanna's body was lying in a 'foetal' position facing the wall. There were no shoes.

No shoes... Now one of the journalist early on in the investigation asked if Joanna Yeates shoes were missing... And DCI Phil Jones wouldn't comment on it...

Why did Dr Delaney says that there were "NO SHOES" ?? when all along they have talked of Boots??

What footwear did Joanna Yeates wear to have Dr Delaney say that there were no shoes???

Where there shoes at Longwood Lane ??? Dr Delaney was at Longwood Lane wand would have seen evidence of this ... Is Dr Delaney trying to tell us something??

(1): Flower patterned pink top

(2): Pendant necklace

(3): Missing shoes

Dr Delaney has given us 3 different pieces of evidence that show Joanna Yeates had a change of clothing that differed from what she had on when we see her in The Ram Pub....

It is feasible that Joanna Yeates had her change of clothing in her rucksack,(as leonora suggested).. and didn't return home, but went on to meet someone ...

Her top in The Ram pub is clearly Plain... she is wearing boots... You cannot see the pendant...

Is the court Drawing actually from the Mortuary?? Who took the Mortuary pictures ??? You cannot see the Flower pattern of her Top in that image as it is rucked up to her chest....

Another baffling question.... why doesn't Dr Delaney ever mention lividity???

That would prove whether Joanna Yeates had been moved in the last couple of hours since her death...  yet there is no mention of this important piece of Forensic Evidence....

Are you telling me that Dr Vincent Tabak, killed Joanna Yeates ... had her lying on his bedroom floor for 1 hour, moved her to the boot of his car, drove to ASDA, then drove aimlessly around before depositing her on Longwood Lane, and then carefully putting her in the foetal position so that she was in the exact same position throughout this entire time ????

I don't think so... He would not be making sure that her body was in that position from start to finish... Therefore where are the lividity marks on Joanna Yeates body to show that Dr Vincent Tabak moved her ???

If the lividity marks were not there ... why not ??? because they should have been ...


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[John]

The heart doesn't pump blood after death, yet they say in court that she was dead within 20 seconds, and Dr Vincent Tabak had her around in his flat for 1 hour before going to ASDA..

How can blood be on the wall ?? How can there be blood drips??

Tanja Nickson explaining away nothing...  It may appear that it fits the circumstance ,but it doesn't ....  Blood doesn't drip when someone is dead....


If the blood on the wall was Joanna Yeates then she had to be alive when she was left on Longwood Lane.... (IMO)

Blood can still trickle from a wound or a gash after death.  The official explanation is that Joanna sustained the injuries as Tabak attempted to put her over the wall into the quarry.  That would certainly explain why no blood was found in either apartment.

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A picture of Yeates' right foot with the sock missing was also shown to the jury. The prosecution has alleged that Tabak took the sock.

Then we have

A picture of her right foot with the sock removed was also shown.

removed by who?? It doesn't say Missing Sock!!

Yeates was lying with her knees pointing towards a quarry wall. Birch remembered the top of her white knickers and part of her bare back being exposed through the snow.

he also says

He added: “Although the body was almost covered in snow there was a small section with not covered. I could see what appeared to be a rear jeans pocket.

How much of Joann Yeates was exposed, not only to see a Jeans pocket, but her knickers and bare back also??? It was supposed to be a glimps of denim... Not virtually her whole back exposed ....

I've gone back to The CrimeWatch reconstruction ... which most of the filming was done around the 18th January 2011


Now the program has  a vague outline of a body lying on Longwood lane ... This body is lying on it's right side , with her legs going towards the road...  The angle of her foot with the sock upon it should be the opposite way round, the  foot should be facing the other way .... Yet we have the panned image of Joanna Yeates left foot going from right to left to her toes... And if she was facing the Quarry Wall they should have panned left to right... for that image ...

The foot show be point down towards the main road not up towards the rest of Longwood lane ....
Surely that important detail should not be incorrect !!!


In the first image I have attached, you can see the length of her body and make out her knee and back as it is facing the quarry wall...

When did the Police decide to change the position that Joanna Yeates was discovered in????

Mr Birches statement to the court says:

Yeates was lying with her knees pointing towards a quarry wall. Birch remembered the top of her white knickers and part of her bare back being exposed through the snow.

Knees pointing to the quarry wall!! So how does the CrimeWatch program explain itself that it depicts her with her knees facing the road...

Did Mr Birch sign a witness statement that was untrue??? How did he see her knickers if she had her back to the Quarry Wall as depicted in the Crime Watch reconstruction ....!!!!

Another huge red flag... where is the bare flesh on this Crimewatch Program ?? If Joanna yeates pink top had been pulled up??? Mr Birch sated that bare Flesh was visible ....

Birch remembered the top of her white knickers and part of her bare back being exposed through the snow.

Yet it gets better.... The crime watch  program depicts The Birches walking down towards the main road and passing Joanna Yeates and her body being in the position that we have become accustomed to....

So Joanna Yeates could not have been on that side of the road ....

In a statement read out to court, Birch said: "I saw a lump in the snow and what appeared to be a denim jeans pocket on the left-hand verge. I didn't think about it straightaway and continued walking. After about 10 paces, my mind was saying: 'That's a body.'"

So Joanna Yeates has to be on the opposite side of the road if the Birches are walking down the road... The same place that this forensic tent is situated.... (Image: 4) That is why this sentence now makes sense to me ...

Yeates was lying with her knees pointing towards a quarry wall.  Birch remembered the top of her white knickers and part of her bare back being exposed through the snow.

The Positioning of the forensic tent is at the opening to the woods... The Birches it appear to me have walked though the wood for the dog to do its ablutions... There Daniel Birch has seen Joanna Yeates back, at this juncture... Joanna Yeates knees would be facing the quarry wall...

There is nothing to say that Joanna Yeates knees where touching the Quarry Wall just that her knees were facing the Quarry walland they should have said touching with her being in The Foetal position on that small verge...

Thinking about it... where else would you get so much vegetation to cover her body up so that you could tuck the leaves in??? Not on the Verge thats for sure ....(IMO)...

Remember that this was a reconstruction that was aired on in November 2011 after Dr Vincent Tabak's conviction!!

Another thing that I noticed is she is "NOT" in the foetal position... she is lying there with her legs slightly bent....

And what is the purple looking object that is visible.. I have circled it on image 3

Is it a bag?? Or is it a Jacket ???

It is something, that they have obviously kept from the public..... (IMO)...

it clearly shows that the information on The CrimeWatch program is Incorrect... and I believe that she wasn't found were they say she was found...

Daniel Birches statement that is read out in court is testament to that... And the description of her knees facing The Quarry Wall

just to repeat, so there is No Mistake ....

Mr Birches statement to the court says:

Yeates was lying with her knees pointing towards a quarry wall. Birch remembered the top of her white knickers and part of her bare back being exposed through the snow.

pointing towards the quarry wall... That suggests she is at a distance....and on the opposite side of the road !!! (IMO)...


https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/oct/14/joanna-yeates-body-dog-walker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtOST33-LjU

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/oct/14/joanna-yeates-body-dog-walker

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Blood can still trickle from a wound or a gash after death.  The official explanation is that Joanna sustained the injuries as Tabak attempted to put her over the wall into the quarry.  That would certainly explain why no blood was found in either apartment.

She had enough blood leaving her body so she could stand in it having blood on the sole of her sock and toe... There should have been blood in the Flat!!

Yeates's nose was bloodstained and a red-tinged icicle hung from it.

How was that possible if she had been dead for at least 2 hours ???? The covered in leaves before it snowed !!!!

that would only be possible if her hair was wet.... i always wondered if Joanna Yeates had washed her hair, because the image of the bathroom has the shower head dangling in the bath....

And this Flat was Frozen in time apparently!!!


https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/oct/14/joanna-yeates-body-dog-walker

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This image from The Crimewatch program shows a leg , which should to be the right leg... It looks like there is a shoe or some other footwear on it....


It doesn't look like a bare foot... Also the body is lying ontop of the snow ... !! (IMO)

Again I have attached the image of the purple object that is visible in the shot... It looks a bit like a pouch... It is gathered near the top...

No mention of this purple item was given in court, or it's collection ever mentioned ... The only significant Evidence that was noted in the papers was something that had been handed into the Police....

Were Crimewatch showing us what  "The significant piece of evidence" was ???


[attachment deleted by admin]

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This image from The Crimewatch program shows a leg , which should to be the right leg... It looks like there is a shoe or some other footwear on it....


It doesn't look like a bare foot... Also the body is lying ontop of the snow ... !! (IMO)

Again I have attached the image of the purple object that is visible in the shot... It looks a bit like a pouch... It is gathered near the top...

No mention of this purple item was given in court, or it's collection ever mentioned ... The only significant Evidence that was noted in the papers was something that had been handed into the Police....

Were Crimewatch showing us what  "The significant piece of evidence" was ???

The Purple Pouch mushroom ... (Cortinarius porphyroideus)

Now it could be imagery like so many images of this case .....

Cortinarius porphyroideus
Cortinarius porphyroideus, commonly known as purple pouch fungus, is a secotioid species of fungus found in Australia and in beech forests of New Zealand. It was one of six species that appeared as part of a series depicting native New Zealand fungi on stamps, released in 2002. Common name: Violet Pouch Fungus.
Found: Nothofagus Forest
Substrate: Ground
Height: 60 mm
Width: 30 mm
Season: Autumn
Edible:

Also known as The kings pouch......

The Kings Pouch (Cortinarius porphyroideus) is pretty in purple. This endemic New Zealand fungi is a #mycorrhizal  inhabitant of the southern beech forests and spreads its spores through ingestion by animals, mainly birds. It is hypothesized that the Moa (a large extinct ostrich-like flightless bird) was attracted to the bright purple color. Since no more Moa are around any more I broke this one open, rubbed its #hymenium  (spore bearing structures) on my feet and continued to walk around the forest, hopefully spreading its spores far and wide!

http://www.pictame.com/tag/iwonderwhatittasteslike

http://www.pictame.com/tag/hymenium

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[mrswah]

Blood can still trickle from a wound or a gash after death.  The official explanation is that Joanna sustained the injuries as Tabak attempted to put her over the wall into the quarry.  That would certainly explain why no blood was found in either apartment.

The official version also says that there was a tiny blood spot on the boot seal of VT's car, which matched Joanna's blood.  IF VT killed Joanna, and transported her body to Longwood Lane, she, therefore, must have been bleeding. Wasn't her blood said to have seeped through the cycle bag that VT allegedly used?

If this part of the "official" version is true, then there should have been blood in one or both of the flats. If there had been, this would have formed part of the evidence against VT------IMO.

[mrswah]

I, too believe that Joanna's body was found on the opposite side of the road. That is where the trail is, and where people can walk their dogs safely. Nobody would walk a dog on the quarry entrance side:  there isn't enough room, and it would be dangerous-----IMO.

If we are right, then the wall doesn't come into play at all, unless, of course, the body was moved.

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I, too believe that Joanna's body was found on the opposite side of the road. That is where the trail is, and where people can walk their dogs safely. Nobody would walk a dog on the quarry entrance side:  there isn't enough room, and it would be dangerous-----IMO.

If we are right, then the wall doesn't come into play at all, unless, of course, the body was moved.

I believe you and me are right mrswah... The wall doesn't come into play... They would have us believe that Joanna Yeates body was on the verge directly below the wall.. which obviously isn't true...

Question now being... why did they need all those Fire Engines????  when she was near the wood and by the trail

[mrswah]

I believe you and me are right mrswah... The wall doesn't come into play... They would have us believe that Joanna Yeates body was on the verge directly below the wall.. which obviously isn't true...

Question now being... why did they need all those Fire Engines????  when she was near the wood and by the trail

An even bigger question is, IF Joanna's body was on the other side of the road, why was the public told something different?

Also, why did VT say that he tried to put Joanna over the wall?

AND, whose blood was on the wall----or wasn't it blood?