Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?

[pegasus]

There is no evidence at all that MS has changed his mind.
It is obvious that he was very serious when he spoke with Garda, LP and Paiva in Sept 2007.
And he was willing to fly back to Portugal to make a formal identification.

[Carana]

There is no evidence at all that MS has changed his mind.
It is obvious that he was very serious when he spoke with Garda, LP and Paiva in Sept 2007.
And he was willing to fly back to Portugal to make a formal identification.

He was ready to fly back, yes. But a formal identification of... what?

[Alfred R Jones]

 

[Brietta]

There is no evidence at all that MS has changed his mind.
It is obvious that he was very serious when he spoke with Garda, LP and Paiva in Sept 2007.
And he was willing to fly back to Portugal to make a formal identification.

He was willing to fly back to Portugal but Rebelo who was aware of the McCluskey misidentification among other things, didn't ask him to ... 

Martin Smith would read the files on their release - and don't tell me he didn't - and realised that he shared in almost each detail his misidentification with Mr McCluskey.  That would give him food for thought and he would work it out from there.

[pegasus]

He was willing to fly back to Portugal but Rebelo who was aware of the McCluskey misidentification among other things, didn't ask him to ... 

Martin Smith would read the files on their release - and don't tell me he didn't - and realised that he shared in almost each detail his misidentification with Mr McCluskey.  That would give him food for thought and he would work it out from there.

MS would certainly have been flown back to Portugal in early October 2007 to make a formal identification had someone not engineered to stop it by discarding Mr Amaral. MS was asked to fly back and expressed his willingness to fly back in a phone conversation with Amaral's PJ on about Sept 27th 2007, this is documented in the files, I can post it if you want. The idea that MS later studied the PJ files and miraculously reversed his Sept 2007 identification is pure conjecture IMO.

[misty]

MS would certainly have been flown back to Portugal in early October 2007 to make a formal identification had someone not engineered to stop it by discarding Mr Amaral. MS was asked to fly back and expressed his willingness to fly back in a phone conversation with Amaral's PJ on about Sept 27th 2007, this is documented in the files, I can post it if you want. The idea that MS later studied the PJ files and miraculously reversed his Sept 2007 identification is pure conjecture IMO.

Unless MS (& the other members of his family) also altered the reported time of the sighting, the formal identification would have been worthless.

[pegasus]

Unless MS (& the other members of his family) also altered the reported time of the sighting, the formal identification would have been worthless.

None of the Irish group gave an exact time from a clock. The exact time we do know is the card transaction at Dolphin, which makes it likely the sighting was some time after 10pm.

[misty]

None of the Irish group gave an exact time from a clock. The exact time we do know is the card transaction at Dolphin, which makes it likely the sighting was some time after 10pm.

AS had the time of departure from the Dolphin spot on. How do you think she did that?

[pegasus]

AS had the time of departure from the Dolphin spot on. How do you think she did that?

The point is, the time of the sighting is known only very approximately, it depends whose estimate you chose to read.
For example PS said that they left Kellys 50 to 60 minutes after they left Dolphin, and we know they left Dolphin after 21:27, therefore the sighting was after 22:17, at earliest. So purely hypothetically you could have table alarm 22:00, rush arrives back at apartment gate 22:01, leave apartment 22:14, sighted 22:17.

[misty]

The point is, the time of the sighting is known only very approximately, it depends whose estimate you chose to read.
For example PS said that they left Kellys 50 to 60 minutes after they left Dolphin, and we know they left Dolphin after 21:27, therefore the sighting was after 22:17, at earliest. So purely hypothetically you could have table alarm 22:00, rushers arrive back at apartment 22:01, leave apartment 22:14, sighted 22:17.

Hypothetical timing does not stand up in a court of law. The witness with the only accurate time for departure from the Dolphin begs to differ with the witness who changed his mind about not being able to recognise the man he allegedly saw at a different stated time.

[Brietta]

MS would certainly have been flown back to Portugal in early October 2007 to make a formal identification had someone not engineered to stop it by discarding Mr Amaral. MS was asked to fly back and expressed his willingness to fly back in a phone conversation with Amaral's PJ on about Sept 27th 2007, this is documented in the files, I can post it if you want. The idea that MS later studied the PJ files and miraculously reversed his Sept 2007 identification is pure conjecture IMO.

I don't know where you are coming from thinking that Mr Amaral's removal from the case was "engineered" he managed to do it all by himself by becoming an embarrassment and nearly causing a diplomatic incident with his loose talk.

[pegasus]

I don't know where you are coming from thinking that Mr Amaral's removal from the case was "engineered" he managed to do it all by himself by becoming an embarrassment and nearly causing a diplomatic incident with his loose talk.

Do you really believe that one phone call with a journo on evening 1st October, in which he commented on UK police, was the real reason he was disposed of on 2nd October? Nothing with someoneelse's post-arguido phone chats with high up people then?

[pathfinder73]

None of the Irish group gave an exact time from a clock. The exact time we do know is the card transaction at Dolphin, which makes it likely the sighting was some time after 10pm.

Yes one revealed an exact time and another exact time minutes later aka hook, line and sinker.

[pathfinder73]

Hypothetical timing does not stand up in a court of law. The witness with the only accurate time for departure from the Dolphin begs to differ with the witness who changed his mind about not being able to recognise the man he allegedly saw at a different stated time.

Two exact times.

"Around 22H00, they left Kelly's Bar. Questioned, she responds that she knows the time that they left."

Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 22H03. Both are still unidentified 8 years later.

[Brietta]

Do you really believe that one phone call with a journo on evening 1st October, in which he commented on UK police, was the real reason he was disposed of on 2nd October? Nothing with someoneelse's post-arguido phone chats with high up people then?

I believe it was the instrument used to sort out a loose cannon ... in his book he says as much.

Part and parcel of that was probably the embarrassing mumbo jumbo of dream interpretations and total misunderstanding of forensics which precipitated the premature rush to have Madeleine's parents constituted arguidos ... particularly as eight days later a change in the law would not have allowed it.

I think flying Martin Smith in to explain how a man he could not identify carried a child would have been the final straw for him if his indiscreet phone call hadn't already done it ... Rebelo didn't do it, probably after he had investigated what Martin Smith had to say ...

Interesting you mention high powered phone calls ... from whom to whom??