Author Topic: Curious anomaly with Mr Smith's "damascus moment" ...  (Read 8993 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ferryman

  • Guest
Curious anomaly with Mr Smith's "damascus moment" ...
« on: May 02, 2013, 06:14:05 PM »
I will add in edits.

The Daily Mirror says this:

A suspicious stalker was seen lurking outside Madeleine McCann's holiday flat just five days before she vanished, it was confirmed yesterday.

British holidaymaker Paul Gordon has told detectives he spotted a "dodgy looking" male at the patio doors.

When confronted, the "non British"- looking man claimed he was collecting money for charity before vanishing.

The new information renews fears that paedophiles may have stalked the McCanns for days at the Ocean Club complex, in Praia da Luz on the Portuguese Algarve.

Yesterday, speaking publicly for the first time, brewery executive Paul said: "I've given a statement and hope the information may help find Madeleine.

"I told police all I know. I was in the apartment before the McCanns but I've never met them."

Paul, 34, arrived at his home in Fareham, Hants, concealing his face with a hoodie and walked with his back facing the street at all times.

He and his family rented the Praia flat for a fortnight at the end of April before Kate and Gerry McCann, both 39, took it over.

After Madeleine disappeared on May 3, Paul contacted Scotland Yard.

He told detectives how he spotted the mystery man outside the flat's patio doors as his own children, aged one and two, slept inside.

The stranger claimed he was collecting donations for an orphanage.

But he roused suspicions as the patio doors are at the rear of the house and concealed by a high hedge.

Paul went inside to get some money and the man abruptly left.

At first, Paul feared he was casing the flat to plan a burglary. Then Madeleine disappeared and he realised the incidents may be linked.

Paul said the man did not look British and was outside the apartment long enough to work out its layout .

The patio doors were unlocked the night Madeleine, four, vanished.

Paul was interviewed several times and has given a sworn statement.

He has also volunteered to give DNA and fingerprint samples.

One of his friends said earlier: "He's very safety-conscious when it comes to his children." McCann spokesman Clarence Mitchell confirmed Paul had come forward.

He said: "Mr Gordon has spoken to police and to our investigators. Gerry and Kate have never met him."

A friend of suspect Robert Murat, 34, falsely told police the Brit expat was drunk in a cafe the night Madeleine vanished.

Murat insists he was at home with his mother Jenny, 71. A source told newspaper 24 Horas: "The friend guaranteed Murat was in a coffee shop about five kilometres from the Ocean Club. He said he left drunk."

Murat's lawyer Francisco Pagarete, said: "He tried to defend Robert and ended up prejudicing him. We can prove Murat was with his mother."

Portuguese police claim they have enough evidence to prosecute the McCanns who are also official suspects.

Detectives still plan to travel to the UK to interview the couple and the seven holiday friends they were dining with when Madeleine went missing.

GP Kate and cardiologist Gerry have always denied any involvement.



Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-saw-stalker-by-maddy-apartment-284548#ixzz2S9jc4Atl
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook


Note  the verbatim quote from Pagarete.  Is he* talking about Martin Smith?

Martin Smith's statement as we read it doesn't correspond with what Pagarete says.

I will add in an edit ...

From Martin Smith's first statement we have this:

— States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph.
— Adds that in May and August of 2006, he saw ROBERT MURAT in Praia da Luz bars. On one of these occasions, the first, he was inebriated and spoke to everyone. He did not wear glasses at that time. He also states that the individual who carried the child was not ROBERT. He would have recognised him immediately.


Hmmmm!

I was under the impression Murat's friend Tuck Price had said Murat had been teetotal for many years.

I confess, I can't find that quote now.  I'll add if I come across it.

Or unless anyone else can? ...

Edited to clarify question ...
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 07:08:50 PM by ferryman »

Offline DevilsAdvocate

Re: Curious anomaly with Mr Smith's "damascus moment" ...
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2013, 07:03:03 PM »
Note  the verbatim quote from Pagarete.  He is talking about Martin Smith?

Are you asking a question or stating your belief here Ferryman ? The inclusion of a question mark at the end of the sentence is confusing.

Martin Smith's statement as we read it doesn't correspond with what Pagarete says.

I will add in an edit ...

From Martin Smith's first statement we have this:

— States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph.

Adds that in May and August of 2006,
This is one whole year before Madeleine went missing !

he saw ROBERT MURAT in Praia da Luz bars. On one of these occasions, the first, he was inebriated and spoke to everyone. He did not wear glasses at that time. He also states that the individual who carried the child was not ROBERT. He would have recognised him immediately.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Curious anomaly with Mr Smith's "damascus moment" ...
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2013, 07:05:11 PM »
Note  the verbatim quote from Pagarete.  He is talking about Martin Smith?

Are you asking a question or stating your belief here Ferryman ? The inclusion of a question mark at the end of the sentence is confusing.

Martin Smith's statement as we read it doesn't correspond with what Pagarete says.

I will add in an edit ...

From Martin Smith's first statement we have this:

— States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph.

Adds that in May and August of 2006,
This is one whole year before Madeleine went missing !

he saw ROBERT MURAT in Praia da Luz bars. On one of these occasions, the first, he was inebriated and spoke to everyone. He did not wear glasses at that time. He also states that the individual who carried the child was not ROBERT. He would have recognised him immediately.

Yes, that was intended to be a question.

And that was my query about the anomaly.

If Pagarete isn't talking about Martin Smith, then who is he talking about?

I can't think of another witness statement in the files that remotely matches what (or particularly whose statement) Pagarete describes.

Can anyone else?

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Curious anomaly with Mr Smith's "damascus moment" ...
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2013, 07:14:25 PM »
Apart from the danger of quoting red rags, as if they were any kind of font of truth, Martin. Smith in his statement does not say he saw Murat in a bar drunk that night.

Offline DevilsAdvocate

Re: Curious anomaly with Mr Smith's "damascus moment" ...
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2013, 07:17:06 PM »
Hi Ferryman, is it just me who is struggling to find a link between the question posed in the thread subject line and the cited references in the body of the post ?
Also the 'damascus moment' reference is rather ill used, a more apt phrase may be 'eureka moment' !

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Curious anomaly with Mr Smith's "damascus moment" ...
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2013, 07:18:29 PM »
And there is also this from the Irish Gardia police officer who took Mr Smith's statement:

He [Mr Smith] has been contacted by numerous tabloid press looking for stories. He has been contacted by Mr Brian Kennedy who is supporting the McCann family to take part in a photo fit exercise. He has given no stories or helped in any photo fits. He sent a solicitor's letter to six papers in relation material that was printed that was misquoted. The Evening Herald paid his solicitor's fees and all papers printed an apology. His photograph appeared in another tabloid paper and this matter is being pursued at the moment.


ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Curious anomaly with Mr Smith's "damascus moment" ...
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2013, 07:20:42 PM »
Hi Ferryman, is it just me who is struggling to find a link between the question posed in the thread subject line and the cited references in the body of the post ?
Also the 'damascus moment' reference is rather ill used, a more apt phrase may be 'eureka moment' !

The anomaly is in working out who, if not Martin Smith, Pagarete is talking about

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Curious anomaly with Mr Smith's "damascus moment" ...
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2013, 07:22:09 PM »
Apart from the danger of quoting red rags, as if they were any kind of font of truth, Martin. Smith in his statement does not say he saw Murat in a bar drunk that night.

No matter the source, a verbatim quote from a named person is a verbatim quote from a named person ...

Offline DevilsAdvocate

Re: Curious anomaly with Mr Smith's "damascus moment" ...
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2013, 07:26:10 PM »
Hi Ferryman, is it just me who is struggling to find a link between the question posed in the thread subject line and the cited references in the body of the post ?
Also the 'damascus moment' reference is rather ill used, a more apt phrase may be 'eureka moment' !

The anomaly is in working out who, if not Martin Smith, Pagarete is talking about

Hi Ferryman, what is the Martin Smith 'damascus moment' you quote in the title thread ? That may help me understand where you are coming from, thank you.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Curious anomaly with Mr Smith's "damascus moment" ...
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2013, 07:27:21 PM »
Hi Ferryman, is it just me who is struggling to find a link between the question posed in the thread subject line and the cited references in the body of the post ?
Also the 'damascus moment' reference is rather ill used, a more apt phrase may be 'eureka moment' !

The anomaly is in working out who, if not Martin Smith, Pagarete is talking about

Hi Ferryman, what is the Martin Smith 'damascus moment' you quote in the title thread ? That may help me understand where you are coming from, thank you.

The Damacas moment of apparent conviction he'd seen Gerry ...

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Curious anomaly with Mr Smith's "damascus moment" ...
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2013, 07:31:09 PM »
Hi Ferryman, is it just me who is struggling to find a link between the question posed in the thread subject line and the cited references in the body of the post ?
Also the 'damascus moment' reference is rather ill used, a more apt phrase may be 'eureka moment' !

The anomaly is in working out who, if not Martin Smith, Pagarete is talking about

And that is why you cannot trust newspaper articles who can copy and paste and jiggle around all sorts of info whilst not actually saying anything
 @)(++(*


ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Curious anomaly with Mr Smith's "damascus moment" ...
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2013, 07:32:27 PM »
Hi Ferryman, is it just me who is struggling to find a link between the question posed in the thread subject line and the cited references in the body of the post ?
Also the 'damascus moment' reference is rather ill used, a more apt phrase may be 'eureka moment' !

The anomaly is in working out who, if not Martin Smith, Pagarete is talking about

And that is why you cannot trust newspaper articles who can copy and paste and jiggle around all sorts of info whilst not actually saying anything
 @)(++(*

Any thoughts on who Pagarete is talking about?

Offline DevilsAdvocate

Re: Curious anomaly with Mr Smith's "damascus moment" ...
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2013, 07:34:08 PM »
But what bearing does the main body of your OP have in relation to Martin Smith's claimed sighting ?
I apologise in advance if it is staring me in the face but I just can't see the correlation  !

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Curious anomaly with Mr Smith's "damascus moment" ...
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2013, 07:37:49 PM »
Hi Ferryman, is it just me who is struggling to find a link between the question posed in the thread subject line and the cited references in the body of the post ?
Also the 'damascus moment' reference is rather ill used, a more apt phrase may be 'eureka moment' !

The anomaly is in working out who, if not Martin Smith, Pagarete is talking about

And that is why you cannot trust newspaper articles who can copy and paste and jiggle around all sorts of info whilst not actually saying anything
 @)(++(*

Any thoughts on who Pagarete is talking about?

No, but I won't waste my time on something futile, as in trying to find any truth from snippets from a red rag, something solid to go on might be better

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Curious anomaly with Mr Smith's "damascus moment" ...
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2013, 07:40:06 PM »
But what bearing does the main body of your OP have in relation to Martin Smith's claimed sighting ?
I apologise in advance if it is staring me in the face but I just can't see the correlation  !

Martin Smith claims to have seen Gerry.

He claims the man was definitely not Robert Murat because (according to his statement) he had met Murat in a bar a year ago before.

That doesn't exactly correspond with what the paper reports that someone (if not Smith, then who) had seen Murat in the bar that night.

But the paper's version would certainly tally with Smith (inadvertently) landing Murat in trouble because it would contradict Murat's claim and the alibi of his mother that he spent the whole evening May 3rd in doors with his mother ...