Are the balconies at OC a risk to toddlers?

[Robittybob1]

I would say so plus less distractions at night.

I did actually read that "the daytime temperatures were too hot for the dogs".  I am amazed at the amount of work those dogs were expected to do in those few days.

[Brietta]

I would say so plus less distractions at night.

Martin Grime was heard to say that they would need to come back in daylight ... was that ever done?

[Robittybob1]

Martin Grime was heard to say that they would need to come back in daylight ... was that ever done?

there are those photos of the detectives looking at the balustrades so you would have to say "yes".  Maybe not immediately, but really there isn't much to see.

[mercury]

Exactly nothing to see
No rails removed
New investigating officer 6 months later not inspecting rails, but possibly scenario of child falling to their death which no onehas disproved

[Robittybob1]

Exactly nothing to see
No rails removed
New investigating officer 6 months later not inspecting rails, but possibly scenario of child falling to their death which no one has disproved

Are you introducing a new theory here Mercury?  One in which Madeleine climbed the fence and then died on the other side of the railing from falling?  OK, that is possible and then what?  Who found her and disposed of her body or did someone take her for medical treatment? How would you make that work, for if she was deceased long enough to get the cadaver odour in the garden there'd be no reason to take her to the Doc Luz Medical Center - rules out Smithman.
It is possible to fall down there and be unfound during the initial searches but taken away just prior to the GNR arriving.  Risky business carrying a body when everyone is out looking for her.  Interesting variation though and I can't discount it completely.  Only drawback would be there no reason to have cadaver odour near the wardrobe.
Or would you have someone taking her inside first and then removing her later?

Not a silly scenario.

[mercury]

I dont do whole theories start to finish to include all the known and unknown evidence
I donthave a theory
(I only make observations and suggest possiblities)
I leave that to those with mental stamina
No onehas stepped up to the mark to date,not even the so called finest police force in the world

[Robittybob1]

I dont do whole theories start to finish to include all the known and unknown evidence
I donthave a theory
(I only make observations and suggest possiblities)
I leave that to those with mental stamina
No onehas stepped up to the mark to date,not even the so called finest police force in the world

Do you have any other theories involving the balconies for  I see a problem with this one as the tracker dogs AFAIK didn't track into the garden.  Look to be honest I'm a bit unsure of where the trackers dogs tracked in the first night.

[misty]

Death theory involving the stairs?  That's a new one on me.  Cite, please.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1564725/Madeleine-McCann-died-after-fall-down-steps.html

[ShiningInLuz]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1564725/Madeleine-McCann-died-after-fall-down-steps.html

Many thanks for that.

Let me see if I pick the bones out of this.

The leak was by a senior detective to 24 Horas in Portugal, then picked up and rehashed by the Telegraph.

It alleges that Madeleine fell down stairs at her holiday home (which could only be those between the baby gate and the garden gate.)  It alleges that Madeleine hit her head on a ceramic flagstone (which must have been at the bottom of the concrete stairs) and died.  It alleges that the parents, fearful of a potential charge of manslaughter, disposed of the body, perhaps with the help of others in the Tapas group.  It alleges that this theory arose after a British report stated the dogs had detected the smell of death on the steps.

The date of the Telegraph report is 30 Sep 2007, therefore if this actually was a leak by the PJ, it seems to have been just days before Amaral was removed from the case.

Does it stand up to any scrutiny?  It does not appear to.  There is no mention of dog alerts on the stairs in the files.  There is no evidence of CSI activity on the stairs.

Perhaps the source was recounting the 'fell behind the sofa' theory, but wanted to be less than 100% accurate.

I wondered why I had never heard of it.  It's not in Amaral's book.  It's not in the Files.  That explains why I was unaware of it.

 

[Robittybob1]

Many thanks for that.

Let me see if I pick the bones out of this.

The leak was by a senior detective to 24 Horas in Portugal, then picked up and rehashed by the Telegraph.

It alleges that Madeleine fell down stairs at her holiday home (which could only be those between the baby gate and the garden gate.)  It alleges that Madeleine hit her head on a ceramic flagstone (which must have been at the bottom of the concrete stairs) and died.  It alleges that the parents, fearful of a potential charge of manslaughter, disposed of the body, perhaps with the help of others in the Tapas group.  It alleges that this theory arose after a British report stated the dogs had detected the smell of death on the steps.

The date of the Telegraph report is 30 Sep 2007, therefore if this actually was a leak by the PJ, it seems to have been just days before Amaral was removed from the case.

Does it stand up to any scrutiny?  It does not appear to.  There is no mention of dog alerts on the stairs in the files.  There is no evidence of CSI activity on the stairs.

Perhaps the source was recounting the 'fell behind the sofa' theory, but wanted to be less than 100% accurate.

I wondered why I had never heard of it.  It's not in Amaral's book.  It's not in the Files.  That explains why I was unaware of it.

The article has some unusual features:
1. Death caused by falling in the area of the balcony (dog alerts on balcony could be extended to the steps). "The new theory emerged after a report from Britain said specialist sniffer dogs had detected the "smell of death" on the steps, it was claimed."  I.e. close to the area under discussion.
2. Some sort of involvement of the OC staff.  "It emerged as a source close to the McCanns said police were investigating claims that a disgruntled ex-employee from the Ocean Club, where the family was staying, may have been involved in Madeleine's abduction."
3.  The story appears fake but the "Police have discovered the woman identified does exist and that the tip-off came from an email address registered in the Iberian peninsula."  That is still a fairly large area. You would think it  would be possible to identify it a bit closer to a city rather than a vast area of land.

[Robittybob1]

Found this photo showing how easy the balustrade was to climb over.

[Alfie]

Found this photo showing how easy the balustrade was to climb over.

Is that a smallish 4 year old child?

[slartibartfast]

Is that a smallish 4 year old child?

These aren't.

[Alfie]

These aren't.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sDaRLZF9HqY

are these clips from Apartment 5a?

[Robittybob1]

Is that a smallish 4 year old child?

No of course not.  I'm just showing the forum that it is well known how unsafe the design and construction the balustrades were compared to the standard building codes.  Even a 4 year old could climb this one, see how much the clearance is between the top of the rail and the crutch.