The Defence Will State Their Case

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Was Chris Jefferies arrested just because he had a set of keys? You would expect a landlord to have them.

I also don't see that this means that the door was double locked. I mean we just don't know do we?

Previous tenants, naughty, naughty Nine - lol.

I'm sure that Chris Jefferies would have changed the locks between tenants, that's quite normal. Probably around the same time that he painted the hallway a bright ghastly yellow!

Why else would the Police assume that it was CJ, just because he was the Landlord??? There had to be a reason for this...
The Police had told everyone that there was NO Forced entry...  The media at the time went rife with stories of CJ having keys to her Flat... And the police also took all the keys from CJ to all the Flats that were empty or let....

The subsequently arrested CJ after his second witness statement...

I believe the Police allowed everyone to believe that it was CJ as he had access to the flats because he held the keys..

Now those stories shouldn't have circulated if it was just a case of someone getting access by knocking on the door and dropping the latch on their way out....

And as to whether CJ changed the locks after each tenant I do not know the answer to that one....

Edit...  I believe again ... that is why they said it was CJ... because he was the landlord and he had the keys to Flats....

Otherwise, there attention would have been drawn to all of the other residents as potential suspects, simply because a Latch had been dropped... (imo)

And that is the reason I believe that both locks were locked... Meaning whoever killed Joanna yeates had a key... And that person was not Dr Vincent Tabak !!!!!.... (imo)

Double Edit Now I know it applies in Scotland, but i'm not sure about English Law.... Don't the Police need 2 pieces of evidence to arrest someone on suspicion of murder???

If that is the case.. Then both locks would need to be locked , because otherwise  it would mean anyone could lock the Flat door on the way out by dropping the latch....

[nina]

Why else would the Police assume that it was CJ, just because he was the Landlord??? There had to be a reason for this...
The Police had told everyone that there was NO Forced entry...  The media at the time went rife with stories of CJ having keys to her Flat... And the police also took all the keys from CJ to all the Flats that were empty or let....

The subsequently arrested CJ after his second witness statement...

I believe the Police allowed everyone to believe that it was CJ as he had access to the flats because he held the keys..

Now those stories shouldn't have circulated if it was just a case of someone getting access by knocking on the door and dropping the latch on their way out....

And as to whether CJ changed the locks after each tenant I do not know the answer to that one....

Edit...  I believe again ... that is why they said it was CJ... because he was the landlord and he had the keys to Flats....

Otherwise, there attention would have been drawn to all of the other residents as potential suspects, simply because a Latch had been dropped... (imo)

And that is the reason I believe that both locks were locked... Meaning whoever killed Joanna yeates had a key... And that person was not Dr Vincent Tabak !!!!!.... (imo)

I suppose that as president/director or whatever of the Tenants Association he might have had the keys to all of the flats in no.44, not just the basements and his own flats which he owned.

From memory ... which isn't that good, in 2010 Chris Jefferies was the second youngest at no.44 so he might have had other reasons to have had all the keys at no.44.

If I disappear it's because my broadband keeps going, like just now. So apologies ahead of my crisis. I hate computers!

Maybe Chris Jefferies said something in his interviews with the police and they didn't believe him, not to do with the keys.

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check my double edited post above.. please  I did it as you posted

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In reply to my double edit....

It must be the case....

When they arrested Dr Vincent Tabak, it was supposed to be the DNA and the phone call from the sobbing girl, that clinched his arrest!!!!

And as for CJ.. He had the keys and his second witness statement that he may or may not have seen Joanna Yeates that evening....

So the door had to be double locked.....   Because it wouldn't make sense , on arresting CJ, as the evidence of the door latch being dropped would be too weak as a reason to arrest him....

And any person around that vicinity on Friday 17th December 2010, could have knocked on Joanna Yeates door and attacked her pushing her into the hall... Again dropping the latch on the way out...

So i will say again... I believe both locks were locked... And Joanna Yeates keys were in her rucksack on the table in the front room...

Meaning it had to be someone who had a set of keys, and NOT Dr Vincent Tabak.....(IMO)... Because they never ask Dr Vincent Tabak if he had any keys to Joanna Yeates Flat either !!!!!

[nina]

In reply to my double edit....

It must be the case....

When they arrested Dr Vincent Tabak, it was supposed to be the DNA and the phone call from the sobbing girl, that clinched his arrest!!!!

And as for CJ.. He had the keys and his second witness statement that he may or may not have seen Joanna Yeates that evening....

So the door had to be double locked.....   Because it wouldn't make sense , on arresting CJ, as the evidence of the door latch being dropped would be too weak as a reason to arrest him....

And any person around that vicinity on Friday 17th December 2010, could have knocked on Joanna Yeates door and attacked her pushing her into the hall... Again dropping the latch on the way out...

So i will say again... I believe both locks were locked... And Joanna Yeates keys were in her rucksack on the table in the front room...

Meaning it had to be someone who had a set of keys, and NOT Dr Vincent Tabak.....(IMO)... Because they never ask Dr Vincent Tabak if he had any keys to Joanna Yeates Flat either !!!!!

I don't follow your logic sometimes Nine, but I have a few questions.

Where is it proved that the sobbing girl existed.

Why stitch up a foreign person with no record at all ..... if that person is innocent.

Why was Joanna moved.

Why was Joanna murdered.

I do have loads more questions, but will stick with the four above.

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I don't follow your logic sometimes Nine, but I have a few questions.

Where is it proved that the sobbing girl existed.

Why stitch up a foreign person with no record at all ..... if that person is innocent.

Why was Joanna moved.

Why was Joanna murdered.

I do have loads more questions, but will stick with the four above.

(1): It was never proved that the sobbing girl exisited, that is why I do not know with what evidence they arrested Dr Vincent Tabak in the first place, as DCI Phil Jones has stated the DNA was Low Copy... And that on it's own would not be enough to arrest Dr Vincent Tabak...(imo) The story of the sobbing girl circulated in the papers I think after his arrest...

(2): I don't know the answer to that one.. I know the review was due on the following Monday after Dr vincent Tabak's arrest, and DCI Phil Jones had commented that he was a very Placid individual to deal with... As for his record, did they check everything before they arrested him... That I do not know either....

(3): For me the only reason I believe someone moves a body is because they know the person.... And they try to distance themselves from what they have done.... Strangers I believe walk there victim to the scene of crime... Or leave them where they have found them..


(4): I don't know why she was murdered... It could have been an accident.... It could have been anything

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I don't understand what you are not following with regards my logic??

[nina]

(1): It was never proved that the sobbing girl exisited, that is why I do not know with what evidence they arrested Dr Vincent Tabak in the first place, as DCI Phil Jones has stated the DNA was Low Copy... And that on it's own would not be enough to arrest Dr Vincent Tabak...(imo) The story of the sobbing girl circulated in the papers I think after his arrest...

(2): I don't know the answer to that one.. I know the review was due on the following Monday after Dr vincent Tabak's arrest, and DCI Phil Jones had commented that he was a very Placid individual to deal with... As for his record, did they check everything before they arrested him... That I do not know either....

(3): For me the only reason I believe someone moves a body is because they know the person.... And they try to distance themselves from what they have done.... Strangers I believe walk there victim to the scene of crime... Or leave them where they have found them..


(4): I don't know why she was murdered... It could have been an accident.... It could have been anything

Thanks for the above Nine.

1.  So the sobbing was just an urban myth.

2.  I think that the police would most definitely have ascertained whether VT had a record before arresting him. 

3.  I tend to agree with you until I think of Becky Watts. Her half brother and idiot girlfriend, took her from her bedroom to his own  home after murdering her. There's always some that are different I suppose.

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If I am using the logic that... The Fact CJ had the keys and his second witness statement, was why he was arrested.

I believe that the door needed 2 locks to be locked and not just the Yale latch dropped....

I will say that this has to be the case... If CJ's lawyers arrived and knew that it was possible for just anyone to trick their way into Joanna Yeates Flat... Kill her, remove her, and drop the latch on the way out...

The Police would not have been able to apply for an extension for CJ to question him... and his Lawyers would have had him out quick sharp, as the reason of anyone getting access being a possibility would weaken whatever evidence they believed they had against him.... (imo)

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Thanks for the above Nine.

1.  So the sobbing was just an urban myth.

2.  I think that the police would most definitely have ascertained whether VT had a record before arresting him. 

3.  I tend to agree with you until I think of Becky Watts. Her half brother and idiot girlfriend, took her from her bedroom to his own  home after murdering her. There's always some that are different I suppose.

(1): Yes.. As far as I know... No evidence of The Sobbing Girls phone call or existence was brought to trial..

(2): That is possible Nina... They obviously got permission from someone in Holland to interview him in the first place on the 31st December 2010

(3):As you have pointed out, Becky Watts half brother knew her and also so did his girlfriend.. They removed her from her home. whether or not the place he chose to hide her was ill conceived, doesn't change the fact that he moved her from the scene of crime.



And you're welcome...

[nina]

If I am using the logic that... The Fact CJ had the keys and his second witness statement, was why he was arrested.

I believe that the door needed 2 locks to be locked and not just the Yale latch dropped....

I will say that this has to be the case... If CJ's lawyers arrived and knew that it was possible for just anyone to trick their way into Joanna Yeates Flat... Kill her, remove her, and drop the latch on the way out...

The Police would not have been able to apply for an extension for CJ to question him... and his Lawyers would have had him out quick sharp, as the reason of anyone getting access being a possibility would weaken whatever evidence they believed they had against him.... (imo)

No I was just meaning that your logic is different from mine and sometimes I have difficulty with it, but it could be the way I read your posts. It's just two different points of view that's all.

Did Flat 1 have the sort of heating that you put on yourself, or was it controlled from the main house? Do you happen to know?

If it was the sort that was on all day, well that may have been a reason for moving Joanna.

On the other hand if no heating was on all weekend wouldn't that have the same effect of freezing her. Like dumping her in L/Wood Lane, but without the snow.

Again just another thought.

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No I was just meaning that your logic is different from mine and sometimes I have difficulty with it, but it could be the way I read your posts. It's just two different points of view that's all.

Did Flat 1 have the sort of heating that you put on yourself, or was it controlled from the main house? Do you happen to know?

If it was the sort that was on all day, well that may have been a reason for moving Joanna.

On the other hand if no heating was on all weekend wouldn't that have the same effect of freezing her. Like dumping her in L/Wood Lane, but without the snow.

Again just another thought.

(1): There is a timer in the kitchen on the left for the boiler, I presume it controls the central Heating as well as the
       hot water..

(2): Nothing has ever been mentioned as to whether or not the central heating was on or off or whether it was on a
      timer. But say it was ON... Dr Vincent Tabak didn't turn it off...  He would have said....
      If Joanna Yeates had been at the Flat dead all weekend whether the heating was on or off, there would have
      been signs of her death with the body fluids leaving the body...
     
      If she had been there all weekend with the heating on, it would have compounded the issue of the body's
      decomposition, and there would I believe , be the distinctive smell that a dead body leaves behind in the flat

     So I believe Joanna Yeates would have been removed quite quickly if she had died in her Flat...
     And that is why I believe we get the story of Dr Vincent Tabak taking her around to his Flat... But we still have
     the problem that the bladder and bowel empty, quite soon after death.. and there doesn't appear to be any
     evidence of this in either Joanna Yeates Flat or Dr Vincent Tabak's Flat, even though Dr Vincent Tabak was
     supposed to have Joanna Yeates in his Flat for about an hour. Plus... Dr Delaney does not mention any staining
     of Joanna yeates clothing when he does the post mortem, which would have indicated also that she was
     deposited soon after her death...

(3): Yes it would..

[nina]

(1): There is a timer in the kitchen on the left for the boiler, I presume it controls the central Heating as well as the
       hot water..

(2): Nothing has ever been mentioned as to whether or not the central heating was on or off or whether it was on a
      timer. But say it was ON... Dr Vincent Tabak didn't turn it off...  He would have said....
      If Joanna Yeates had been at the Flat dead all weekend whether the heating was on or off, there would have
      been signs of her death with the body fluids leaving the body...
     
      If she had been there all weekend with the heating on, it would have compounded the issue of the body's
      decomposition, and there would I believe , be the distinctive smell that a dead body leaves behind in the flat

     So I believe Joanna Yeates would have been removed quite quickly if she had died in her Flat...
     And that is why I believe we get the story of Dr Vincent Tabak taking her around to his Flat... But we still have
     the problem that the bladder and bowel empty, quite soon after death.. and there doesn't appear to be any
     evidence of this in either Joanna Yeates Flat or Dr Vincent Tabak's Flat, even though Dr Vincent Tabak was
     supposed to have Joanna Yeates in his Flat for about an hour. Plus... Dr Delaney does not mention any staining
     of Joanna yeates clothing when he does the post mortem, which would have indicated also that she was
     deposited soon after her death...

(3): Yes it would..

Ah yes it was a combi boiler and you control the heating/radiators from it. Mine's the same.

I suppose the heating issue could be one reason why Joanna was moved. That has never made sense to me, whoever murdered her didn't need to move her, unless the flat was warm.

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Ah yes it was a combi boiler and you control the heating/radiators from it. Mine's the same.

I suppose the heating issue could be one reason why Joanna was moved. That has never made sense to me, whoever murdered her didn't need to move her, unless the flat was warm.

Or.... As people have mentioned previously....

She wasn't killed in her Flat and someone returned her possessions, locking the door behind them... But then you would still need someone to have the keys to the flat to lock both locks and leave Joanna yeates Rucksack on the table with the keys to the Flat inside....

[nina]

Maybe the lack of heating was another thing that got Greg R worried.