The Defence Will State Their Case

[Myster]

I thought the sample was used up in the enhancing process???

I saw a reference to multiple enhanced copies somewhere on the net, a reliable source NOT Twitter.

[Real justice]

In "Under The Wig", William Clegg QC (or his ghost-writer) stated that some doctors say it's possible to kill quickly by applying pressure to the vagal nerve (sic). I think that should read "vagus".  And also that certain military personnel are trained in just such a technique.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choking_game

Thanks Myster, I read where it could be quicker than the 20 seconds, I was always under the impression that unconsciousness would be first, followed by death after further pressure?

[Real justice]

In "Under The Wig", William Clegg QC (or his ghost-writer) stated that some doctors say it's possible to kill quickly by applying pressure to the vagal nerve (sic). I think that should read "vagus".  And also that certain military personnel are trained in just such a technique.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choking_game

I read somewhere, that he had actually changed his grip around Joanna’s neck, they could tell with the bruising marks on her neck.  I can’t find it now so I can’t post the link.
 I think this is important, because if you release your grip and then tighten in another area, it’s more intentional

[Myster]

I saw a reference to multiple enhanced copies somewhere on the net, a reliable source NOT Twitter.

I could be mistaken on that and it was fresh DNA which was sent after the pornography trial and being put on the Sex Offenders' Register.

[Caroline]

I did read somewhere that Joanna died because her heart stopped.

Isn’t that the ultimate cause of death for everyone?

[mrswah]

Isn’t that the ultimate cause of death for everyone?

I read something about her heart stopping before asphyxiation killed her, but cant find the link now, and I doubt it is very significant!

[mrswah]

I also read that the UK sent Tabak’s DNA and fingerprints to the USA and Holland to check their systems I suppose?  These being the Countries Tabak visited.

Does anyone know if they found anything?

[[...]]

Does anyone know if they found anything?

I thought DCI Goff said they hadn't...

[[...]]

I read somewhere that Jo's parents were in agreement with the making of the program, although they declined to take part, but not sure if Mr. Jefferies was involved at all.

Can only find interviews with Chris Jefferies concerning his wrongful arrest rather than his verdict on the drama-doc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFgGbNtF0wA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsZnfi5oM5o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wS_zf_kZ6k

Is there room for yet another miscarriage of justice on here, as someone believes they got the wrong man in Vincent Tabak.

Read the comment by Philip Hollingbery...

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/reviews/the-lost-honour-of-christopher-jefferies-part-2-tv-review-an-impressive-drama-but-joanna-yeates-story-still-wasnt-properly-told-9919435.html

and... http://vincent-tabak-is-innocent.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/jury.html
 

I am now trying to work out what reason it appears that people have been opposed to what I have said..

Is the difference, everyone else whom has had anything to say has pointed the finger at someone else, where as i am not pointing the finger at anyone, not even knowing what is real or not about this whole reported case..

So it appears you either point the finger at CJ or GR and that has been the norm in forums etc for years... But I looked at that... The opportunities and possibilities are endless... The interpretation of the evidence is endless... People whom needed to be interviewed... endless!

Not following what should be protocol... bizarre...

I have gone backwards and forwards, and maybe I am wrong in my beliefs, but it makes no sense, it is nonsense, and as I have stated, I do not know if Dr Vincent Tabak exists... I do not understand why anyone from The Netherlands hasn't said anything...

I cannot point the finger at GR, I cannot point the finger at CJ...

But I think it is time GR said something about what he knows, and CJ, seeing as I will repeat for the umpteenth time, CJ conversed with Dr Vincent Tabak on 2 occasions that weekend of the 17th December 2010 to the 19th December 2010, this by his own admission on video, his Leveson statement too being a record of what CJ had stated....

But I cannot understand why he would be allowed to be a core participant in the Leveson when he could quite easily have been called as a witness, and apparently Leveson 2, was on hold waiting for other investigations and proceedings to be completed...

So why was CJ allowed to be a core participant?? It's beyond me...

But this whole case is beyond me.... Utter twoddle...

It has to be .... The parents walking around the second scene of crime on the 27th December 2010, when the crime scene hadn't finished being processed...  A Flat frozen in time ,staged....

I'm not going to repeat it all, I have said enough on the oddities....

Can people really accept what happened in this case?, can people accept the outcome of this case?

Being in 2 minds about whether Dr Vincent Tabak is real or not, I always consider it is possible, that he is in prison....

So why isn't anyone saying anything about it??

[Myster]

You are repeating it all.  So do something about your OCD.

[Real justice]

I am now trying to work out what reason it appears that people have been opposed to what I have said..

Is the difference, everyone else whom has had anything to say has pointed the finger at someone else, where as i am not pointing the finger at anyone, not even knowing what is real or not about this whole reported case..

So it appears you either point the finger at CJ or GR and that has been the norm in forums etc for years... But I looked at that... The opportunities and possibilities are endless... The interpretation of the evidence is endless... People whom needed to be interviewed... endless!

Not following what should be protocol... bizarre...

I have gone backwards and forwards, and maybe I am wrong in my beliefs, but it makes no sense, it is nonsense, and as I have stated, I do not know if Dr Vincent Tabak exists... I do not understand why anyone from The Netherlands hasn't said anything...

I cannot point the finger at GR, I cannot point the finger at CJ...

But I think it is time GR said something about what he knows, and CJ, seeing as I will repeat for the umpteenth time, CJ conversed with Dr Vincent Tabak on 2 occasions that weekend of the 17th December 2010 to the 19th December 2010, this by his own admission on video, his Leveson statement too being a record of what CJ had stated....

But I cannot understand why he would be allowed to be a core participant in the Leveson when he could quite easily have been called as a witness, and apparently Leveson 2, was on hold waiting for other investigations and proceedings to be completed...

So why was CJ allowed to be a core participant?? It's beyond me...

But this whole case is beyond me.... Utter twoddle...

It has to be .... The parents walking around the second scene of crime on the 27th December 2010, when the crime scene hadn't finished being processed...  A Flat frozen in time ,staged....

I'm not going to repeat it all, I have said enough on the oddities....

Can people really accept what happened in this case?, can people accept the outcome of this case?

Being in 2 minds about whether Dr Vincent Tabak is real or not, I always consider it is possible, that he is in prison....

So why isn't anyone saying anything about it??

Hi Nine, welcome back  . The Leveson was about press intrusion, there was lots of other people who gave evidence at this inquiry, try separating the two.  CJ was never called as a witness because the Defence or the Prosecution didn’t need  him, seeing that Tabak had pleaded guilty.  Maybe if Tabak had pleaded not guilty to killing Joanna, I’ve no doubt he would have been called.   Hope this helps 

[[...]]

You are repeating it all.  So do something about your OCD.

OCD.... You point out OCD... Aspergers has been thrown in the mix.... Yet no-one is worried that NO Medical diagnosis of Dr Vincent Tabak's mental health was seen by the court, or used in Mitigating factors... No time reduction for time already served whilst awaiting trial...

Yes the aggregating factors i have covered.. And?? What about the mitigating factors that could have been used.... Not used?? Why?? because we just have a story here.. Is that what this trial is a badly written story? I have no idea...

Which will always make pointless anything i say about this case, as you all will always say the opposite...


I went to the pictures tomorrow
I took a front seat at the back,
I fell from the pit to the gallery
And broke a front bone in my back.
A lady she gave me some chocolate,
I ate it and gave it her back.
I phoned for a taxi and walked it,
And that’s why I never came back..

That rings a bell............

[[...]]

Hi Nine, welcome back  . The Leveson was about press intrusion, there was lots of other people who gave evidence at this inquiry, try separating the two.  CJ was never called as a witness because the Defence or the Prosecution didn’t need  him, seeing that Tabak had pleaded guilty.  Maybe if Tabak had pleaded not guilty to killing Joanna, I’ve no doubt he would have been called.   Hope this helps 

Hi Real....

But what if Dr Vincent Tabak decided to change his mind and withdrew his guilty plea he apparently made in May 2011??

Surely the trial etc etc... should have been completed before CJ was even considered... It is wrong in my opinion... CJ should NOT have been at The Leveson...(imo)

Completion on conviction... CJ then should have been invited on Conviction of Dr Vincent Tabak, not before the trial actually happened... There could have easily have been someone else put their hand up to this crime... A mysterious witness.... anything could have happened...

There was only a Murder charge... they did not accept manslaughter... Therefore if he had been found NOT GUILTY of Murder, he should have walked free... (imo)...  So finding him guilty had to be a foregone conclusion, is the only conclusion I can come too...

They cannot have it every which way they want! 

Therefore CJ should have been at Leveson 2 and not 1... If his information was not relevant to Leveson 2, then he shouldn't have participated (imo)... But his participation, has thrown up questions, his Leveson statement coupled together with his TV interviews have thrown up questions....

He whether he likes it or not.... WAS A WITNESS, to events of the weekend of 17th December 2010 to 19th December 2010, by his own admission... Did he fail to inform The Leveson of this MASSIVE detail???



Edit...

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8060.msg526761#msg526761

From the program Countdown to Murder...  at  27:41 of the video

As I was on my way out to the gym, quite by chance, erm I met Vincent Tabak and we had a very brief conversation, erm and he seemed to be in quite an elated mood and was saying what a very beautiful evening it was erm, this light dusting of snow, erm thats all the conversation consisted of...

Then at 28:45 of the video

Vincent Tabak helped me move the car that morning, erm, becawse, there was snow on the drive, and I need some help, in the car being pushed up.. erm, the slight incline, erm, from the parking area onto the main part of the drive,, so that I could get the car out.Er, when I thanked Vincent for er, doing that for me, erm, his reply was,.. well what are neighbours for

Out of the mouths of babes.... Or I should say... Out of the MOUTH OF CJ............

Leveson statement..

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140122175642/http://www.levesoninquiry.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Second-Witness-Statement-of-Christopher-Jefferies.pdf

On Tuesday 21 December 2010 I provided a statement to tile police who were at that ,
time searching the entire house and all the flats in it and taking statements from all the residents. I was not being treated as a suspect. At the time the police said to all of us that if we subsequently remembered anything that could be material we should get back in touch, That evening I remembered something else that I had not mentioned to the police that I thought could possibly be material. This was that one evening, which might have been Friday 17 December 2010, as I was coming back from the gym at about 9pm, I had parked my car on the road and was just walking through the gates of the main driveway, when I became aware of what sounded like two or perhaps three people leaving by the side gate on the other side of the house which I could not see as there is a hedge in between and it was dark, I duly telephoned the police and relayed this.

Therefore confirmation from CJ as to what he knew of that weekend, not only that, the lack of lighting appears to be an issue also... So how did Joanna Yeates see Dr Vincent Tabak and visa versa...

[Real justice]

Hi Real....

But what if Dr Vincent Tabak decided to change his mind and withdrew his guilty plea he apparently made in May 2011??

Surely the trial etc etc... should have been completed before CJ was even considered... It is wrong in my opinion... CJ should NOT have been at The Leveson...(imo)

Completion on conviction... CJ then should have been invited on Conviction of Dr Vincent Tabak, not before the trial actually happened... There could have easily have been someone else put their hand up to this crime... A mysterious witness.... anything could have happened...

There was only a Murder charge... they did not accept manslaughter... Therefore if he had been found NOT GUILTY of Murder, he should have walked free... (imo)...  So finding him guilty had to be a foregone conclusion, is the only conclusion I can come too...

They cannot have it every which way they want! 

Therefore CJ should have been at Leveson 2 and not 1... If his information was not relevant to Leveson 2, then he shouldn't have participated (imo)... But his participation, has thrown up questions, his Leveson statement coupled together with his TV interviews have thrown up questions....

He whether he likes it or not.... WAS A WITNESS, to events of the weekend of 17th December 2010 to 19th December 2010, by his own admission... Did he fail to inform The Leveson of this MASSIVE detail???

Hi Nine, I will catch up later, rather busy today 

[Caroline]

Hi Real....

But what if Dr Vincent Tabak decided to change his mind and withdrew his guilty plea he apparently made in May 2011??

Surely the trial etc etc... should have been completed before CJ was even considered... It is wrong in my opinion... CJ should NOT have been at The Leveson...(imo)

Completion on conviction... CJ then should have been invited on Conviction of Dr Vincent Tabak, not before the trial actually happened... There could have easily have been someone else put their hand up to this crime... A mysterious witness.... anything could have happened...

There was only a Murder charge... they did not accept manslaughter... Therefore if he had been found NOT GUILTY of Murder, he should have walked free... (imo)...  So finding him guilty had to be a foregone conclusion, is the only conclusion I can come too...

They cannot have it every which way they want! 

Therefore CJ should have been at Leveson 2 and not 1... If his information was not relevant to Leveson 2, then he shouldn't have participated (imo)... But his participation, has thrown up questions, his Leveson statement coupled together with his TV interviews have thrown up questions....

He whether he likes it or not.... WAS A WITNESS, to events of the weekend of 17th December 2010 to 19th December 2010, by his own admission... Did he fail to inform The Leveson of this MASSIVE detail???



Edit...

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8060.msg526761#msg526761

From the program Countdown to Murder...  at  27:41 of the video

Then at 28:45 of the video

Out of the mouths of babes.... Or I should say... Out of the MOUTH OF CJ............

Leveson statement..

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140122175642/http://www.levesoninquiry.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Second-Witness-Statement-of-Christopher-Jefferies.pdf

Therefore confirmation from CJ as to what he knew of that weekend, not only that, the lack of lighting appears to be an issue also... So how did Joanna Yeates see Dr Vincent Tabak and visa versa...

What on earth are you talking about? You have no idea how the legal system works! Of course he wouldn't have walked free! Had the jury found him not guilty, he would have been sentenced in accordance with manslaughter!

CJ's account of the weekend is irrelevant (and I don't know why you keep asking this because it is so simple!) ....... Tabak isn't denying causing JY's death. The ONLY relevant witness would be one who saw him end her life because perhaps then, they could say whether the death was accidental or not. Anything else - IRRELEVANT! Got it now?