Hi all I am new here. You have made some good points but I think there are a few considerations missed and a few overstatements.
I think the point about Sheila definitely being unfamiliar with any gun is an overstatement. I would phrase it as there is no reliable evidence that she ever used a gun or knew how to use any gun and that even Jeremy Bamber conceded he never saw her use any of the weapons that were in the house on the date of the murders. Family and friends testified she had no interest in guns and that they never saw her touch let alone use a gun. Jeremy testified that she fired a gun as a child when she went target shooting with him but that he has not seen her fire a weapon as an adult. The only people who would have a basis to know whether Jeremy was lying about her firing a gun as a child were the 3 adult victims. Since he is a known liar and was making a self-serving claim there is good reason to doubt him. Still it would be more accurate to say no reliable evidence she ever fired a weapon than to say for sure she didn't.
This touches upon a point I have never seen anyone raise before. Jeremy lied to police on the night of the murders. As he was speaking to the police at the scene he listed all the firearms in the house and told them that Sheila had fired all these weapons and was proficient with them. This scared the police so much that they refused to enter. They were unarmed and did not want to take the risk. This even disturbed the armed officers who arrived later so much that they waited a considerable time to enter.
Since at trial he conceded he had not seen her fire a weapon as an adult and the guns in the house were all obtained while she was an adult it means he can't have seen her fire any of them. So what basis did he have to tell police she fired all the weapons in the house and was proficient with them? The only conclusion for the rational mind is that he intentionally lied to police. The appropriate question that follows is why would he lie about this?
There are only 2 reasons for such a lie. 1) So police would not go in right away which would make it more difficult to establish the time of death and 2) So that police would believe she carried out the murders when they found her with the gun lying on top of her.
It worked on both counts. They waited so long to enter that it resulted in valuable time being lost to examine the bodies and try to fix the time of deaths. Moreover, they initially believed she did it and this resulted in sloppy evidence collection and preservation. They didn't examine Jeremy or test his hands or clothing. He milked their trust for all it was worth even though in the end it still didn't save him.
Even if Sheila had used a gun as a child that doesn't mean she would know how to operate the murder weapon. What kind of gun she operated as a child would be key and she might not even remember how to use that gun anymore. Jeremy never got into what weapon she supposedly used when she was with him as a child. The murder weapon was a semi-auto rifle. Jeremy claims the gun itself was unloaded but he left a loaded magazine next to it. While most people can figure out how to load a magazine into a gun, those unfamiliar with the operation of semi-autos will not know how to chamber a round or even know a round needs to be chambered in order for the gun to operate.
In the US, Manson follower Lynette Fromme tried to shoot President Gerald Ford with a semi-auto pistol. She pulled the trigger but it didn't fire. The reason it didn't fire is because she never chambered a round she simply loaded the magazine and tried to fire.
Even if she had managed to chamber a round and fire, since she either never fired a gun ever before or had not fired any weapon as an adult, there certainly would have been a learning curve. It seems pretty unlikely that she would not miss with a single shot, particularly since she allegedly was in a frenzied state and ran out of medication that would have counteracted the spasms caused by her Haloperidol sedatives.
Another issue relates to reloading. Since she never used the weapon before and may never have used a semi-auto before she would have to figure out how to release the empty magazine to reload it. Precious time would be lost as she tried to figure out how to remove it. From photos of the weapon I can see how to chamber a round but would have to see it close up to figure out where the magazine release is and how it works. Off hand I don't precisely know because I never used it and that is despite the fact I have considerable firearms expertise.
There was only one magazine for the weapon. The killer could not simply load in a fresh magazine. The killer had to take the added time to reload the magazine at least 2 times. This point likely explains why there was a struggle in the kitchen.
Evidence indicates the killer and Nevill struggled over the weapon. As they wrestled things were knocked over and the silencer scratched against the underside of the mantle. The killer punched Nevill in the face multiple times breaking his nose and giving him 2 black eyes. Apparently this enabled the killer to regain sole control of the rifle. The killer then beat Neville with the butt of the rifle. Nevill had defensive wounds on his arms where he tried to block the rifle blows and bruises on his head where he was struck by the rifle. The killer struck Neville so hard over the head that the killer broke the rifle stock and knocked him unconscious. Why would the killer stop shooting and instead beat him with the rifle? There is only one rational reason, the rifle was empty. If the rifle still had ammo the killer would have continued to shoot him.
This is particularly the case if Sheila were the killer. According to court records Nevill was 6'4" and in good physical condition (I have seen 6"2" listed on this site but the court records state 2 inches taller). She was small in comparison. She would have difficulty overpowering him. If she ran at him with the gun to strike him then he could have disarmed her. How could she have hit him in the head with it considering his height? This being the case why would she even try if she still had ammo in the gun? She would just continue to shoot him and so would in fact any killer. Only running out of ammo would force a killer to resort to hand to hand combat.
Either Nevill charged the killer to grab hold of the gun after he found out it was empty or the killer discovered it was empty and attacked Nevill with it and then Nevill grabbed hold. The killer would have needed to find a way to immobilize Nevill so that the killer would then have a chance to reload. Unless immobilized Nevill could disarm the killer while the killer tried to reload. Thus either the killer tried to knock out Nevill then reload or Nevill jumped the killer after the gun clicked empty. As you load more rounds the magazine spring has more tension and it becomes more difficult to push down. It takes quite a bit of effort to load the last couple of rounds. Not only time consuming but also someone with finger nails would probably break them rushing to accomplish it and certainly would incur some damage to the nails or polish during the course of a severe struggle. Even men bruise or cut their hands when punching other men or when handling sharp objects like the broken rifle stock.
The alleged phone call needs to be evaluated based on all of this but never is.
Jeremy repeatedly stated that his father told him his sister is in a crazy frenzy, she got a hold of the gun and he is scared she will use it so come right away to help. The assertion is that she didn't shoot anyone with it yet at the time Neville dialed but then his father was cutoff and he is unsure what happened at that point.
If Nevill did make the call as claimed he would have been shot 4-5 times already before he dialed. Also June already had to have been shot severely enough that she stayed in the master bedroom and did not try to escape the house or to try to help her husband. The shooting started upstairs in the master bedroom. June would not have stayed there unless she were shot enough times to immobilize her. Nevill was shot 4 times upstairs. The killer pursued Nevill down the stairs and shot him 4 more times downstairs. The killer is believed to have fired a shot from the stairs hitting him a 5th time (in the head) before he could possibly have reached the phone. Some believe the 5th shot was in fact fired in the kitchen after he was unconscious along with the other 3 rounds, they think the casing on the stairs stuck to a shoe and was trailed there by accident. The evidence could go either way.
This is very damaging to Jeremy's claims for a number of reasons.
Of the 8 bullets wounds that Nevill suffered: the 3 most severe wounds were headshots any one of which on its own would have at minimum rendered Nevill unconscious; 1 wound was to his lip; another fractured his jaw, teeth and larynx which rendered him unable to speak after that; another bullet was a right side headshot that might not have immediately rendered him unconscious; 1 wound to his left shoulder; and finally 1 wound to his left elbow.
Since he was able to run down the stairs obviously he can’t have suffered the most serious wounds upstairs. Also in the kitchen there was a severe struggle so he was not yet unconscious or that struggle would not have taken place and he certainly can't have made a phone call if unconscious. So we can assume the 3 most severe shots were fired last after he was incapacitated in order to finish him off. They were close range shots so consistent with such. Indeed the way to reach the top of his head would be because he was slumped over already not standing upright. That means one of the shots he suffered before reaching the phone had to be the shot that rendered him unable to speak. That right there destroys any claim he made a phone call to Jeremy.
For the moment let’s set aside the reality that Nevill would not have been able to speak over the phone and that at best he could have dialed but Jeremy would not be able to hear anything beyond unintelligible noises. Let’s pretend that Nevill defied science and was able to speak and analyze what Jeremy claims his father said to him and whether someone in Nevill’s position would actually say over the phone what Jeremy attributes to him.
Nevill's wife was shot and in unknown condition. He himself was shot at least 4 and possibly 5 times. Someone in his position would call 999 and request police assistance and an ambulance announcing he and his wife were shot and needed medical attention. Ok suppose he wanted help quicker what would he do? He would call the caretaker and tell the caretaker to call 999 requesting police and ambulance because they were shot and ask the caretaker to immediately come help disarm Sheila because he was close and the police might arrive too late.
Does he do either? No instead he calls Jeremy. There is substantial evidence and testimony that he didn't trust Jeremy. Indeed the caretaker had keys to the house but he didn't trust his son with a set of keys. That says something right there. He told at least one person he feared Jeremy was plotting to kill him, how ominous. But instead of calling the caretaker he calls his son who is only a little bit further away than the caretaker. Does he tell his son that they were shot and needed medical attention? No supposedly he said Sheila has a gun and might use it come right over I need your help. It is ludicrous to think that Nevill would call someone and not say he and his wife had been shot send medical help but would instead lie and say Sheila had not yet used the gun but he feared she would so come help disarm her.
So the conversation clearly was made up by Jeremy. There is no way such a conversation could have happened.
Mind you even if she had not shot anyone yet it still makes no sense to call Jeremy. Jeremy did not get along well with her so it is not as if Jeremy could offer a soothing effect to calm her down. Aside from her children, her favorite person was her father so he had the best chance to calm her down. Moreover given Nevill's size advantage he could have disarmed her physically without Jeremy's help. Why would he not attempt to disarm her instead of calling Jeremy to ask for his help? The prosecution brought this out but never drove home the fact that this is not what actually happened anyway. Nevill and his wife had already been shot by the time he reached the kitchen and could have tried to use the phone. Sheila and the twins might also have been shot prior to him reaching the kitchen. The killer could have fired a couple of shots in each victim and returned later to add more. Indeed 5 shots had to have been fired in victims other than Nevill before he reached the phone.
Maximum loading of the gun would be 11 rounds (1 in the chamber and 10 rounds in the magazine)
Nevill: shot 4-5 times before entering kitchen
Upon reaching kitchen magazine empty so Nevill beaten unconscious
Magazine: reloaded and Nevill shot 3-4 more times to finish him off
At minimum 5 shots (6 if all 4 final shots were delivered in the kitchen or it had been loaded with 11 rounds, 7 if all 4 final shots came in the kitchen and 11 rounds had been loaded) were fired into victims other than Nevill. Nevill could have been shot for the first time after the killer reloaded so potentially even more could have been fired into other victims by this time but at minimum 5 were. June and Sheila could already have been incapacitated by 4 and 1 shot respectively.
The fact that Jeremy insists his father didn't say anyone had been shot and to send for an ambulance is absolutely fatal to his claim his father called.
Jeremy's actions before and after supposedly receiving this call make no sense either.
At night he somehow sees bunnies through the window and decides to go shoot at them. He chooses a gun with no silencer or scope for the task though there were guns with silencer and scope attached. He loads the gun but then the bunnies are gone. He unloads the gun but is too lazy to take 30 seconds to put it away, he leaves it on the kitchen table instead with the loaded magazine and extra bullets beside it. This despite having two 6 year old nephews in the house. His father who is very careful not to leave guns around, especially while his grandsons are there, leaves it on the kitchen table and the mother doesn't mind either. They somehow set the table for breakfast anyway with the gun on it. This story makes no sense and all and what is the purpose of the tale? His sister would not go seek out a gun. So he made up this tale about it being easy for her to grab while having a crazy frenzy because it was right in front of her in the open and conveniently so were extra bullets. This also provides an excuse as to why his finger prints would be on some of the casings and the gun.
Ok in the middle of the night his father wakes him up to say come right over your sister got a hold of a gun and I am scared she might use it I want you to help me disarm her.
His father suddenly is cut off.
He lives 3 minutes away does he rush over to find out what happened and help his father?
No he calls his girlfriend reportedly to tell her that his father called him to tell him Sheila was in a frenzy state menacing with a gun.
Then after an undetermined amount of time he calls the regular police line. He tells police that he wants them to go check things out and wants them to pick him up along the way.
His sister is not known to be violent.
His sister has not used a gun since a child and never used any of the guns in the house so might not know how to use the one he left unloaded on the table
He has no idea if his family is hurt or not and is only 3 minutes away so could easily check
He doesn't even go over to peak in the windows and try to listen from outside, he stays at his place till police pass by and then he follows the police but drives slowly behind ot make sure that instead of arriving the same time as them he arrives minutes later. Either he is the biggest chicken ever or he wanted police to arrive first so he could say he was no where near the place till after police got there.
He lies to police and tells then that she has used every gun in the house and is proficient with weapons.
Police are scared to enter. He knows how to get in but he is not concerned enough to enter to try to find out what happened to his family. Instead of being impatient and entering to find out what transpired he calmly talks to police for hours about cars and guy stuff making sure that they go in first and doesn't even press them to go in. He even lies and claims he saw someone walking around inside the bedroom.
I have never seen Jeremy's supporters address any of these points. These points are aside from the evidence related to the silencer and lack of evidence that Sheila fired a gun that night. I have not even mentioned the incriminating evidence his girlfriend provided. That evidence just brings it home even more. But these points I raised on their own are enough to sink Jeremy.
The order of shots is something people wonder about but will never have a perfect answer. Here is what I suspect based on what killers usually do. He probably chambered a round and then loaded another bullet into the magazine so that he had 11 bullets in the gun. He figured the kids were too little to do anything to him so he took care of them last. Since his sister was on sedatives he probably was not worried about her either. Unless for some reason she was awake and in the master bedroom with her parents she probably was shot last.
Presumably the master bedroom only had June and Nevill in it when he entered. He probably shot June 7 times, and Nevill 4 times. Then he was empty. He pursued Nevill into the kitchen and the struggle ensued where the silencer scratched the mantle and they knocked things over. He knocked Neville unconscious and rather than take the time to reload fully he quickly loaded 4 rounds into the magazine and then shot 4 Nevill times more because he did not want to give Nevill a chance to come to and grab the weapon from him again. Then he fully reloads the magazine with 10 rounds. Goes up and shoots 1 nephew 5 times the other 3 times. Then grabs his sister and shoots her 2 times gun empty again. Removes the silencer and blood on his hands gets on the end of the silencer that had been screwed into the rifle and thus should not have any blood on it. He puts the silencer back in the closet because he doesn't want anyone to know it had been used and removes the scope as well so it looks like it had been used without the accessories. This is just what seems to me the most logical based on the evidence and what I know about weapons. Little kids sleep sound and Sheila probably was scared and did what she was told so the real threats were the mother that Sheila and Jeremy had a horrible relationship with and a strong father. If Jeremy didn't hate her so much and concentrated his efforts on his father alone his father might not have made it downstairs. I think that hatred and shooting her so much is what enabled Nevill to escape to the kitchen.
