Author Topic: Multiple reasons why Sheila Caffell is innocent and Jeremy Bamber is guilty  (Read 272529 times)

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Offline John

According to Chris Bewes and Mick Gradwell (see titles/background on clip) they are of the opinion that EP moved the gun and restaged it.  Both think JB guilty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPRd912xv9M  (see @ 6.30 min in)

I think anything from the soc is hopelessly unreliable due to a botched investigation as per EP's admission.

As I understand it one print from each of SC and JB was found on the gun.

A firearms officer removed the rifle from on top of Sheila's body in order to make it safe Holly.   The police were silly to let Bamber lead them in the manner he did but I believe they were so shocked by the thought that a person could do such a thing to his own family that they let ther emotions rule their head.  Thankfully, DS Stan Jones was a real policeman.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 02:32:48 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline scipio_usmc

According to Chris Bewes and Mick Gradwell (see titles/background on clip) they are of the opinion that EP moved the gun and restaged it.  Both think JB guilty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPRd912xv9M  (see @ 6.30 min in)

I think anything from the soc is hopelessly unreliable due to a botched investigation as per EP's admission.

As I understand it one print from each of SC and JB was found on the gun.

All the botches were in favor of Jeremy. 

All of Jeremy's actions should have made him a suspect.  Instead of inspecting him for wounds, gunshot residue and blood evidence (including his clothing) they simply assumed Sheila did it and that ensured any evidence that could have been obtained from Jeremy wasn't.

The fact they made their case inspite of all the lapses demonstrates how powerful the evidence against him truly is.  I presented that evidence and you were unable to dent it. Instead you made up an absurd tale about Nevill running up and down the stairs repeatedly and Sheila taking a bath and changing her clothes so she could commit suicide without any evidence of having committed any murders not to mention the nonsense about her beating a dead body visciously.  All of this fantasy on your part made no sense at all but was your way of trying to explain how she could have no evidence on her of having fired a weapon or of beaing anyone. You ddin't even try to address the issue of the phone being relocated to the kitchen by the killer in advance in anticipation of the murders or the fact Jeremy insists the gun had no suppressor when he left it on the kitchen table which means Sheila would have to have got the suppressor used it then took it off and put it away. Such planning is certainly not indicative of a psychotic episode. 

None of your fantasy narrative accounted for Jeremy's actions of calling Julie in the middle of the night to wake her up (which is totally irrational except if he called to tell her his parents were dead which is what she asserts he told her)  taking his sweet time before calling the police, refusing to go to the house to try to see what was going on until police were already there, lying to police about her firing every gun in the house and being proficient with them and finally instead of pressing police to take action or to go in himself to patiently wait close to 4 hours with them talking about cars and guy stuff.

Worse yet June and Nevill had already been shot before he could have reached the kitchen to use the phone. One of his wounds rendered him unable to speak. If he could speak he would have called to request medical help because he and June had been shot not to say Sheila got a gun and he feared she would shoot them so come disarm her.

Your account of Sheila waking her parents, Nevill then running downstairs to use the phone to call Jeremy to come disarm his sister (instead of Nevill disarming her himself), June staying in the bedroom wiating for Sheila to return, Sheila knocking the phone out of Nevill's hand and marching him back upstairs so she could shoot Nevill and June in the same room, opens fire but Nevill gets away and runs back down into the kitchen, passes out even though the wounds would not have made him pass out, then she beats his limp body including bashing the outside of his arm in what looks like classic defensive wounds, then shoots him. Then goes upstairs to kill everyone else. Then puts the silencer away, then showers and puts on a fresh nightgown and somehow gets rid of the old nightgown full of gunshot residue where it is never found to this day is absolutuely ludicrous.

Rational people recognize the killer entered the master bedroom and opened fire.  June was shot severely enough that she was disabeled and didn't make it out of the room.  Nevill received minor wounds to his left elbow and shoulder, had part of his lip shot off and 1 bullet shattered his jaw and severed his voicebox.  He thus was unable to speak. Had he been able to speak and picked up the phone it would have had blood on it and he would have said he and his wife were shot send for help. Jeremy's story about the phone call gave himself away completely and totally.  This further explains all his other actions which otherwise make no sense.

Waking his girlfriend to say "hey my parents called and said Sheila was having a psychotic episode and is running around with a gun, isn't that interesting" makes no sense.  The only reason he would call her is if he knew they were dead and was excited to tell her about it because he needed to tell someone just like someone who gets a hole in one in golf is bursting at the seems to brag and share his excitement.  Her account is that he called to say they were dead and that it was a follow up call to one made earlier where he told her tonight is the night. He had told her for a while about his desire to kill them.

Not going over to investigate or help makes no sense.  The line would no have been able to be used by him for 1-2 minutes.  He only lived 3 minutes away. He should have ran over to investigate then called police if necessary. At minimum he should have immediately called police as soon as the line cleared (which would have taken 1-2 minutes) then ran over to investigate.  Calling his girlfriend, then police after quite a bit of time after he had hung up with Julie and refusing to drive the 3 minutes until after police were already there talking makes no sense at all unless he killed them he was changing his clothes and cleaning himself up and wanted police to arrive and find the bodies first because if he arrived first they could accuse him of staging the scene. He wanted them to find the bodies so they would not think he had anything to do with it.  That is the only rational explanation for his actions and the only rational explanation of the phone call- it was made up.     





 
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline puglove

Remember how, as he chugged gently along to WHF (after Ralph had begged him to "come quick") he stopped the car, got out, and put another layer of clothing on?     >@@(*&)
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline Holly Goodhead

A firearms officer removed the rifle from on top of Sheila's body in order to make it safe Holly.   The police were silly to let Bamber lead them in the manner he did but I believe they were so shocked by the thought that a person could do such a thing to his own family that they let ther emotions rule their head.  Thankfully, DS Stan Jones was a real policeman.

PV stated:

"He mentioned a number of points which I recall tended  to relate to Jeremy's general reactions which D/Sgt.Jones did not think compatible with the manner in which he expected him to react.  Whilst respecting his views there was nothing impressive about what he said and certainly I cannot recall anything of evidential substance to the effect that Sheila could not have done it".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=206.0

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline John

PV stated:

"He mentioned a number of points which I recall tended  to relate to Jeremy's general reactions which D/Sgt.Jones did not think compatible with the manner in which he expected him to react.  Whilst respecting his views there was nothing impressive about what he said and certainly I cannot recall anything of evidential substance to the effect that Sheila could not have done it".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=206.0

Not to put it too mildly, had Stan Jones not stood his ground and pursued his suspicions, Jerry might have got away with it. Remember  too, that it was Jones who caught Bamber and Mugford sniggering at Goldhanger just hours after the murders.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 03:37:04 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Lindyhop

Remember how, as he chugged gently along to WHF (after Ralph had begged him to "come quick") he stopped the car, got out, and put another layer of clothing on?     >@@(*&)

I missed that - how strange. Where can I read about this? Was it from one of the police statements?

Offline scipio_usmc

I missed that - how strange. Where can I read about this? Was it from one of the police statements?

It is one of the excuses he gave for arriving several minutes after the officers though he was 3 minutes away.

So here is the full story:

1) even though Nevill had part of his lip shot off, his jaw and teeth shattered and voicebox severed he still managed to speak perfectly clear for Jeremy to understand him even though doctors say that is not possible.

2) Nevill managed to use the phone without getting any blood on it though his mouth was bleeding

3) Though he had been shot at least 4 times and June had been shot and disabled instead of calling 999 he wanted to keep it in the family and called Jeremy to come over to disarm his sister.  He didn't mention that any of them had been shot just claimed he feared she would shoot them and thus didn't Jeremy to summon any medical help.

4) Instead of taking the 3 minute drive right away to at least spy from outside to see what was going on instead Jeremy waits an undetermined amount of time from the supposed call (he had to wait at least 1-2 minutes according to the phone company for the line to clear and was unaware of this waiting period so obviously didn't immediately hang up and dial as he claimed) and calls Julie at 3AM, waking her and her roomates, to tell her Nevill had called to say Sheila was having a fit and running around with a gun and Nevill wanted him to come right over.  (Julie says he called her to say his family was dead which makes far more sense than waking her to tell her Nevill told him to go over)

5) At 3:26AM Jeremy calls the police to tell them to go over and asks them to pick him up along the way.  They refuse and tell him to go there to meet them.

6) Instead of taking the 3 minute drive he hangs out in his car waiting for police to appear. He parks on the side of the road. Police fly by and arrive around 3:45AM. He slowly follows them arriving several minutes after them though the entire drive was only 3 minutes. He indicates he stopped on the side of the road to put on a sweater.

7) He arrives and tells police Sheila is crazy and dangerous.  He repeated the claim that his father called to tell him she was having a psychotic fit and running around with a gun. He described how many guns are in the house and each model.  He lies and tells police that Sheila fired every gun in the house and was proficient with them all.

8) Instead of being concerned for his family and pressing police to take action or to take action himself he waits outside with them for nearly 4 hours calm as a cucumber chatting about cars and guy stuff.

Holly ignores all of this because is demonstrates his guilt.  Holly knows that this proves his guilt and that none of her BS lies can account for any of it so instead simply ignores it.  She knows he is guilty but insists he is innocent anyway.  Her motive for this?  Who knows.


   
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline John

I would recommend anyone who is really interested in this case to read the transcripts of the police interviews with Jeremy over several days. These alone reveal so much more about the real Jeremy.

The transcripts reveal a huge discrepancy in his version of the phone call to Julie at 3.00am and the later call to police at 3.26am.

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=33.0
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 08:38:07 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

I would recommend anyone who is really interested in this case to read the transcripts of the police interviews with Jeremy over several days. These alone reveal so much more about the real Jeremy.

The transcripts reveal a huge discrepancy in his version of the phone call to Julie at 3.00am and the later call to police at 3.26am.

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=33.0

Thank you.  I did read them quickly when I first joined Blue but it would be good to read them again.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Lindyhop

I would recommend anyone who is really interested in this case to read the transcripts of the police interviews with Jeremy over several days. These alone reveal so much more about the real Jeremy.

The transcripts reveal a huge discrepancy in his version of the phone call to Julie at 3.00am and the later call to police at 3.26am.

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=33.0

The best part of the transcripts for me, and the most damning, was when he was told that it had been proven that Sheila couldn't have killed herself and/or carried out the killings. He then quickly changed what his father had allegedly said when he rang him from "Sheila has a gun" to "she has a gun".

Second best was when he suggested the dog pulled the trigger for the 2nd shot.


Offline scipio_usmc

The best part of the transcripts for me, and the most damning, was when he was told that it had been proven that Sheila couldn't have killed herself and/or carried out the killings. He then quickly changed what his father had allegedly said when he rang him from "Sheila has a gun" to "she has a gun".

Second best was when he suggested the dog pulled the trigger for the 2nd shot.

He actually changed his story about many things over the course of the interview.  For instance he intiially stated that until getting the gun to shoot bunnies a few hours before the murders he had not touched the gun in over a week.  Once it was pointed out to him that the last person known to have used it said it had a suppressor on it, he changed his story and claimed he used it multiple times the week of the murders and had taken the suppressor off.  He also changed whether the gun was loaded, whether he left a bullet in the chamber and where he supposedly left it. 

My favorite part though is his excuse for calling Julie. He woke her up because the police ticked him off.  He called her before the cops, oops.  At any rate how did they tick him off and why would you wake her and her roomates for that?  Did they tick him off by refusing to pick him up? 

The dog part was in response to the question, if the first shot killed her don't you agree she can't have fired the second shot?  To which he responded that her nerves might have been able to pull the trigger anyway or the gun fired on its own cause it is an automatic or the dog or something else could have set it off.  Any excuse at all to deny that someone else would have to have killed her under such circumstances. 
   
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline goatboy

Anyone with an interest in the case really should read the police interviews, I agree. His no comment answers to many of the questions are particularly telling. Wouldn't an innocent man go out of his way to convince the police of his innocence? I've heard it said Bamber's police interviews aren't available on Blue which is pretty telling again if it is true.

For me, the police interviews strongly reinforce his guilt. As does his comment during the trial, when accused of lying he replied "that is what you have to establish". Most people accused of lying in a Court would emphatically deny this but Jeremy did not. IMO NOT the words of an innocent man and I'd be interested to hear how a Bamber supporter would justify this comment.

Offline scipio_usmc

Anyone with an interest in the case really should read the police interviews, I agree. His no comment answers to many of the questions are particularly telling. Wouldn't an innocent man go out of his way to convince the police of his innocence? I've heard it said Bamber's police interviews aren't available on Blue which is pretty telling again if it is true.

For me, the police interviews strongly reinforce his guilt. As does his comment during the trial, when accused of lying he replied "that is what you have to establish". Most people accused of lying in a Court would emphatically deny this but Jeremy did not. IMO NOT the words of an innocent man and I'd be interested to hear how a Bamber supporter would justify this comment.

Some people actually forget things over time.  He changes what he remembers though from interview to interview depending upon what is advantageous to him.

Police with him at the scene say he told them Sheila fired all the guns in the house and was proficient with them all. In his later interviews he denies he stated this and says he doesn't know if she ever fired a gun as she never went target hunting with him. Later it changes again and she target shot as a child.

His changing story about the bike is also interesting.

He never came up with any good excuse as to why he would call Julie and wake her up in the middle of the night. Calling her to say Nevill phoned and said Julie was going nuts makes no sense at all. You would go find out what happened if anything and then after knowing what actually happened call to tell your girlfriend. He called again at 6AM to tell her not to go to work. I always thought this call was much later I didn't realize it was around 6AM. Even before cops found the family dead he told Julie not to go to work and that he would have cops pick her up. This again demonstrates he knew they were dead already despite police not finding the bodies more than 1.5 hours later.   

 
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline John

The best part of the transcripts for me, and the most damning, was when he was told that it had been proven that Sheila couldn't have killed herself and/or carried out the killings. He then quickly changed what his father had allegedly said when he rang him from "Sheila has a gun" to "she has a gun".

Second best was when he suggested the dog pulled the trigger for the 2nd shot.

CLASSIC!!!   It wisnae me...it wiz the dug Crispy wot dun it!!  @)(++(*  8@??)(

On a serious note, he waited quite a while before phoning the police at about 3.26am yet he was able to phone Julie for a chat at 3am and tell her then that something was going on at the farm.  Julie told him to go back to bed.

Jeremy knew how to get into the farmhouse without a key so had he really been concerned for his family he could have been there within 5 minutes and got into the house but no, he waited until the police got there first and after waiting several hours watched as they smashed in the back door with a sledge hammer.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 12:21:53 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

The best part of the transcripts for me, and the most damning, was when he was told that it had been proven that Sheila couldn't have killed herself and/or carried out the killings. He then quickly changed what his father had allegedly said when he rang him from "Sheila has a gun" to "she has a gun".

Second best was when he suggested the dog pulled the trigger for the 2nd shot.

The interviewing officer, DS Jones, repeatedly misleads JB by telling him that it had been proven that SC was murdered.  This was not the case at all.  The pathologist makes it quite clear that he was unable to confirm murder or suicide.  It sounds to me very much like the questionable interviewing tactics that were used around that era that resulted in a number of high profile MoJ's. 

JB does not suggest the dog pulled the trigger.  He points out it was an automatic gun and that a number of things could have triggered the gun eg nerves, the dog.

"A fairly common problem is the apparently suicide that has fired two shots into the head. Even in the case of instantaneous death and destruction of the basal ganglia, double head shots are possible in suicides. There is a phenomenon called "cadaveric spasm" which is an intense non-specific, uncontrolled contraction of the muscles of the limbs immediately after death. This is quite capable of causing a second pulling of the trigger after death".

JB states all along he was unsure whether NB said "Sheila" or "She has".  Was SC referred to as 'She' in the same way Jeremy was referred to as 'Jems'? 

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?