Multiple reasons why Sheila Caffell is innocent and Jeremy Bamber is guilty

[John]

Excellent points as usual Scipio. The icing on the cake for me is that the 2nd fatal shot just happened to be the last bullet in the magazine. What would be the odds of that for a suicide?

And add to that, why would anyone sit on the floor to commit suicide when they could sit or lie on the bed?

[Holly Goodhead]

And add to that, why would anyone sit on the floor to commit suicide when they could sit or lie on the bed?

Why sit on the floor to say watch tv when one could sit on a sofa?  Horses for courses I guess.

If JB wanted to stage a suicide why in the parents' room and in close proximity to June who by all accounts SC had a poor relationship with?  Why not in her own room or the twins' room?  Same applies to SC ie if she committed suicide why that location?  The only explanation I can come up with is that SC was alive when the police broke in and was panicked into that location?  >@@(*&)

[Holly Goodhead]

The job of the pathologist is to use MEDICAL knowledge and examination of the body to make a determination of the manner of death if possible.  The important thing is that he coudd not say that it was suicide, that is what enables the prosecution for murder. Trying to pretend that his conclusions support suicide are blatantly false.  his conclusions require looking at all the evidence that was looked at and relied upon to convict Jeremy.

The 'evidence' that convicted JB would never get near a court of law today: an exhibit that was found days later by relatives who clearly disliked JB from the off as per their wit stats and an unreliable prosecution witness. 

JB was a very vulnerable person.  Due to his background and upbringing ie being the adopted son of those he was accused of murdering, and a rather fragmented upbringing by way of growing up on a remote farm and attending a boarding school miles from his family home noone really knew him to be able to come out in his defence.  This also extended to his working life which in the main either took him to the other side of the world or working largely alone at WHF. 

[Angelo222]

The 'evidence' that convicted JB would never get near a court of law today: an exhibit that was found days later by relatives who clearly disliked JB from the off as per their wit stats and an unreliable prosecution witness. 

JB was a very vulnerable person.  Due to his background and upbringing ie being the adopted son of those he was accused of murdering, and a rather fragmented upbringing by way of growing up on a remote farm and attending a boarding school miles from his family home noone really knew him to be able to come out in his defence.  This also extended to his working life which in the main either took him to the other side of the world or working largely alone at WHF.

I have never laughed so much for ages, Jeremy Bamber a vulnerable person   

Sheila was innocent ergo Bamber is guilty so get over it Holls.

[Angelo222]

Why sit on the floor to say watch tv when one could sit on a sofa?  Horses for courses I guess.

If JB wanted to stage a suicide why in the parents' room and in close proximity to June who by all accounts SC had a poor relationship with?  Why not in her own room or the twins' room?  Same applies to SC ie if she committed suicide why that location?  The only explanation I can come up with is that SC was alive when the police broke in and was panicked into that location?  >@@(*&)

For heavens sake Holly do try and think outside the box!!  That's an excuse, not an explanation.

Ask yourself the question, did anyone hear a gunshot after they all arrived at the farm? 

[Holly Goodhead]

I have never laughed so much for ages, Jeremy Bamber a vulnerable person   

Sheila was innocent ergo Bamber is guilty so get over it Holls.

It's true!  Victims of MOJ's are nearly always a little different:

Guildford 4, Maguire 7,  Birmingham 6 (hope I've got them the right way round) Irish/Catholic

Stephen Downing - learning difficulties

Stephan Kiszko - socially awkward (Aspergers syndrome)

Sally Clarke - female and professional

Jeremy Bamber - adopted and privately educated/boarding school

Another example is Stephen Lawrence - black

The Macpherson report found the police institutionally racist but prejudice exists in many forms including a dislike/fear of anyone who might be considered 'different'.

[Holly Goodhead]

For heavens sake Holly do try and think outside the box!!  That's an excuse, not an explanation.

Ask yourself the question, did anyone hear a gunshot after they all arrived at the farm?

Yes I believe one of the firearm officers said he heard a noise?  In any event there was a period of a few seconds when the door was smashed in.  The officers were then in the kitchen reporting on NB.  An extending mirror was then used up the stairs before progressing further.  SC could well have committed suicide when all this was going on. 

[Holly Goodhead]

Someone who just explained what a Cadaveric Spasm ACTUALLY IS. Every medical article on this subject states what I said. It is not a contracting of the muscles after death.  Some other terms for a cadaveric spasm are death grip and instant rigor- the muscles freeze in the position they are in upon death. By definition since the muscles freeze in the position they are in the hand is not going to release the trigger and fire again on its own.  Normally the muscles return to their natural state and then rigor sets it while the muscles are in such state. However, when there is a cadaveric spasm the muscle freezes int he state it was in at death and doesn't return to its natural state.  WHile rigor comes and goes a spasm doesn't the rigidity remains even after rigor is gone.   

Also someone who explained the gun was not an automatic but rather a semi-auto so the hand freezing with the trigger down is not going to result in more bullets being fired.

Also someone who pointed out that Sheila's medical examiner found no evidence of cadaveric spasm. You are not looking at the facts and evidence of the case. You are trolling the internet for any eexcuse you can theoretically come up with to support your claim that Jeremy is innocent. You did not arrive at that conclusion by following the facts. You arrived at that conclusion simply because you want to argue he is innocent (for some unknown reason) and you are fishing for anything you can that oculd possibly support your claim he is innocent.  Anytime someone like me comes up with evidence though you can't refute it and instead hide your head in the sand.

I presented a thorough explanation of why you were wrong.  You failed to rebut any of my points because you can't.

All you have to do is research the topic of cadaveric spasm to see I am correct. You have no interest in doing so because the truth completely demolishes the fairytales you are telling.

Why is another term death grip?  Because on the rare occasions it occurs the victim is found gripping an object that they had in their possession at the time of death such as a car accident victim gripping a steering wheel, murder victim gripping whatever they had in their hand when murdered or a suicide victim gripping a gun.

Normally a gun will fall from a suicide victim's hand. But on rare occasion a spasm will be suffered and the gun will remain.  A murderer can't simply place a gun in the hand though and fool investigators into thinking a spasm  occurred.  A medical examiner will touch the hands and fingers and see they move and are not frozen so will know a cadaveric spasm did not occur.

This case is even worse because firing a trigger backwards with a thumb is not easy. The recoil from the weapon would thrust the gun up not down.  this further hurts the claim you are making.  The fatal shot was higher than the nonfatal shot. The recoil of the gun would have thrust the gun UP and thus if she did manage to fire a second shot it would have been higher than the first shot not lower.

But you want to ignore the laws of physics, ignore the actual examination of the body which found no evidence of a vadaveric spasm, even the photos show her hands are not frozen in a position to have fired a weapon in the manner she allegedly did. Nor are they frozen in a position to have been holding the weapon.

Your cliams hold no water at all and constitute simply desperation on your part.

 

There are many states: cadaveric or cataleptic which could be involved.  However it is not necessary for SC to have been in any particular state as the pathologist has always maintained that it is not uncommon to find suicide victims died as a result of two gunshot wounds.  In the case of SC he was unable to confirm suicide or murder; a fact you seem unable or unwilling to accept.  Instead you expect me to fall hook line and sinker for your theories which to your mind are highly plausible but for the growing army of people from all walks of life who believe JB is the victim of a MoJ are anything but plausible! JB is currently serving a life sentence.  He is where you want him.  I can understand the likes of me posting up alternative views but quite why you feel the need to reinforce the established line with such vitriol I have no idea.  What you want you effectively have ie JB behind bars, so I can only assume you have some fear about losing what you currently have   

You are not qualified to comment on cadaveric spasm no more than I am.  I have no idea when this phenomenon was first identified? 

[Angelo222]

It's true!  Victims of MOJ's are nearly always a little different:

Guildford 4, Maguire 7,  Birmingham 6 (hope I've got them the right way round) Irish/Catholic

Stephen Downing - learning difficulties

Stephan Kiszko - socially awkward (Aspergers syndrome)

Sally Clarke - female and professional

Jeremy Bamber - adopted and privately educated/boarding school

Another example is Stephen Lawrence - black

The Macpherson report found the police institutionally racist but prejudice exists in many forms including a dislike/fear of anyone who might be considered 'different'.

Grasping at straws?

[Angelo222]

Yes I believe one of the firearm officers said he heard a noise?  In any event there was a period of a few seconds when the door was smashed in.  The officers were then in the kitchen reporting on NB.  An extending mirror was then used up the stairs before progressing further.  SC could well have committed suicide when all this was going on.

More silliness.  If she had shot herself as the police effected entry she would still be warm when they got to her..  she wasn't.

[Matthew Wyse]

Could I ask you Holly why you believe for a moment that Jeremy Bamber might be a miscarriage of justice when he has failed to bring anything to the table which could support his case?

[Angelo222]

There are many states: cadaveric or cataleptic which could be involved.  However it is not necessary for SC to have been in any particular state as the pathologist has always maintained that it is not uncommon to find suicide victims died as a result of two gunshot wounds.  In the case of SC he was unable to confirm suicide or murder; a fact you seem unable or unwilling to accept.  Instead you expect me to fall hook line and sinker for your theories which to your mind are highly plausible but for the growing army of people from all walks of life who believe JB is the victim of a MoJ are anything but plausible! JB is currently serving a life sentence.  He is where you want him.  I can understand the likes of me posting up alternative views but quite why you feel the need to reinforce the established line with such vitriol I have no idea.  What you want you effectively have ie JB behind bars, so I can only assume you have some fear about losing what you currently have   

You are not qualified to comment on cadaveric spasm no more than I am.  I have no idea when this phenomenon was first identified?

Very few people are even interested in Bamber these days, he doesn't even get a mention by Alison in the Guardian.  He was found guilty in 1986, he is still guilty so let it lie before you end up like Tesko.

[Holly Goodhead]

Grasping at straws?

A better response would be to counter my argument by identifying victims of MoJ's who might be termed 'mainstream'.  I am sure there must be some but certainly the high profile victims I have identified could be seen as 'different' by investigating officers and most jurors.   This could be extended further to Barry George (learning difficulties) and Sion Jenkins (father of foster child).

Most investigating officers and jurors at the time these crimes were committed were not Irish, catholic, black, socially awkward, suffering with learning difficulties, professional if female, adopted, boarding school educated, father to a foster child. Such individuals are already at a disadvantage by peoples' inbuilt prejudices.  People are generally more tolerant and enlightened today but the above MoJ's occurred many years ago. 

[Holly Goodhead]

More silliness.  If she had shot herself as the police effected entry she would still be warm when they got to her..  she wasn't.

Since we have no record of time of death as proper procedures were not followed we have no real idea. 

[Holly Goodhead]

Too bad you had to keep distorting to come up with oddities that actually matter

I have already corrected you multiple times with respect to back spatter but you keep intentionally presenting the bogus claims anyway.

Here is one such post directed to you which you did not respond to because you can't without admitting you are wrong:

"First of all you are distorting. The only shot determined to definitely be a direct contact shot was the fatal shot to Sheila. There were 4 other shots determined that it was possible they were contact shots. The second shot to Sheila was one of these shots.  Another was one of the shots to Nevill.  A third was the shot between June's eyes.  Testimony was that there was a slight chance this was contact shot but most likely it wasn't. The assessment was that 1 of the wounds to Nicholas was close range and it is POSSIBLE that it might even have been a contact wound.  The assessment was not that it definitely was a contact wound. The pathologist reported that the only definite contact wound was Sheila's fatal shot. 

Second, small caliber bullets are unlikely to cause back spatter when fired into the head.  It depends on where in the head but the further from the face the less likely it is possible.  Because the skull is so hard and there is such little skin covering the head back spatter is only likely to result from large caliber weapons.  This is why assassins love 22 caliber pistols.  A few shots to the head and the bullets bounce around in there causing damage, it is hard for a doctor to remove the bullets and in the meantime it leaves little physical evidence on the killer.     

Testimony was that it was virtually certain there would be back spatter from her fatal wound and thus blood would get into the rifle or moderator if it had been fired with the moderator attached.  Testimony was that there was only a very slight possibility of it not happening."

You intentionally keep distorting the back spatter issue to suit your agenda.  You are not relying on science but rather intentionally distorting it. There is nothing unusual at all with a lack of tissue from a neck wound either. The nature of the back spatter depends on the location where the wound is received.  You ignore that time and again because the neck wound wound have almost certianly resulted in back spatter and this is something that harms your agenda. While you are at it you also keep distorting the analysis of which wounds were most likely contact wounds.

 
The anomolies are easy to explain and have been explained.  It is actually common for errors to be transcribed down the line by people not on the scene intiially.

A cop peeking through the kitchen window though Nevill was a lady he could not see Nevill close up and he was bent over so he could not see Nevill's face at all.  Upon entering they discovered and reported he was male.  Someone at police HQ who received both accounts assumed there were 2 bodies and wrote such. The reports by those who were on the scene and actually saw the bodies never asserted there were 2 bodies in the kitchen.

There were not 2 reports of phone calls from different people. The 2 reports were by different cops.  Both reports referred to Jeremy's phone call.  No way can either be construed as coming directly from Nevill both state Jeremy was passing a message supposedly relayed by his father. One cop passed the message to another cop that is why two different cops had reports on it. There is nothing odd in that at all the only anomoly is that one got the time wrong and marked 2:36 instead of 2:26.  Typos happen all the time that is not unusual or very odd.

The schedule of shots produced by Malcolm Fletcher clearly states that the only victim to receive a DEFINITE contact shot was Nicholas.  Again as with much of this case the expert witnesses contradict themselves and each other in various documents.  Eg the autopsy report states that SC's  gunshot wounds APPEAR to be contact or close contact but the CoA document states the upper wound (fatal) was a contact shot and the lower wound (non fatal) when the muzzle was within 3 inches.