Author Topic: Multiple reasons why Sheila Caffell is innocent and Jeremy Bamber is guilty  (Read 272510 times)

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Offline John

Blimey, scipio, no wonder Mike couldn't risk you joining the blue forum!

Brilliant posts.   8@??)(

I don't know how he has the patience to have to keep repeating the known evidence.  Excellent work indeed.  Sorry, off topic but maybe scipio will have a look at my own case and see if he can elicit arguments that I can use in my own revised application for review.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 09:45:47 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline scipio_usmc

When scipio joined he/she said that a book wasn't in the pipeline.  That's one promise broken. @)(++(*
If all the posts so far are printed and bound, it could turn out to be a best-seller !  8((()*/

I would have a ball going head to head with Mike. If that ever happened I picture steam coming out of his ears like in cartoons. However, he seems to be the sort that would delete posts of critics if he were unable to refute their claims. He seems to be very selective of who he approves for his site and only allows logged in members to see certain attachments he posts. That is a red flag.

If the truth is on your side you have nothing to hide and you can handle debate from critics.  He doesn't allow debate from what I have seen he just wants to make claims that go unchallenged.  Since any challenges raised are valid he has no real way to deal with them. 

What I don't understand is how he thinks his dishonest efforts help Jeremy.  It is one thing to fool ignorant people who are too lazy to try to investigate whether Mike's claims are true.  How does he think his efforts will help spring him though?  Judges want real evidence.  Making uncorroborated charges that the police altered evidence doesn't accomplish a thing.

I laughed so hard when I read his claim that police shot Sheila and then put the gun on her to make it look like she did it herself.  I don't understand how anyone can take him serious after some of the crap he has claimed.

I have been accused of writing books in various posts and even emails. What I do that many people do not is I take the time to articulate all the relevant considerations with respect to any issue. By doing so that allows people to think for themselves as to whether a point is right or wrong and to understand why.  Some people don't appreciate that though they want short answers without explanation. 

 

“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline scipio_usmc

I don't know how he has the patience to have to keep repeating the known evidence.  Excellent work indeed.  Sorry, off topic but maybe scipio will have a look at my own case and see if he can elicit arguments that I can use in my own revised application for review.

What case is that? I am always interested in something new, it gets boring to stick on the same subject only.

Edit: ok I now see you are John Lamberton. I will do a post over in that section because I don't want to cloud this topic with unnecessary issues. 
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 10:59:48 PM by scipio_usmc »
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline John

What case is that? I am always interested in something new, it gets boring to stick on the same subject only.

Edit: ok I now see you are John Lamberton. I will do a post over in that section because I don't want to cloud this topic with unnecessary issues.

Certainly have a look at it, I haven't added to the board for a while but most of the information is there, it might even take some pressure off Holly.

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=9.0

There are two websites associated with the case as well...

www.justice4johnlamberton.com

http://johnlamberton.webs.com/
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 11:14:03 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline scipio_usmc

Certainly have a look at it, I haven't added to the board for a while but most of the information is there, it might even take some pressure off Holly.

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=9.0

There are two websites associated with the case as well...

www.justice4johnlamberton.com

http://johnlamberton.webs.com/

I can multi-task, Holly still is going to have me in her hair.  My post in your section is awaiting approval. I still need alot more by way of facts and evidence used at trial. 
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Holly Goodhead

Says who?  People who know somethigng about firearms including me disagree. How many guns have you fired?  I own several 22 rifles. 

You suggest the gunshots could not be heard not based on any facts but rather because you want people to believe the nonsense claims you are making up are theoretically possible.

The jury were taken to the shooting range to hear the sound of the gun with and without silencer.  Do we have any documentary evidence with the outcome?

I understand NGB over on Blue has considerable experience with guns and he has posted up that whether or not the silencer was attached would make very little difference in terms of sound.  He also stated that more than 20 feet away (within WHF) and any sound is likely to be lost and very unlikely to have been heard outside even with windows open.  Prior to actually entering WHF the nearest anyone got to it was an adjacent barn. 



Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Holly, answer me honestly....who do you think was the most likely culprit, Jeremy or Sheila?

Sheila.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

First of all he may not have staged the location.  That might be the location he found her when he shot her.  Moving her body could have left drag marks or a blood trail so he would have little choice but to leave her wherever he killed her.

If he did march her there and then shoot her it was to make it appear that she killed herself after shooting June.

Your assertion that Sheila was alive when police broke in is absurd in addition to there being no evidence at all to support it.  Police and Jeremy would have heard the shots fired by her, the gun had no supporessor which means it would have been even louder than usual and even with the suppressor it was still not silent. Moreover, the blood would have been wet and fresh not dried like it was.  The only "wet blood" was pockets inside her mouth.

You intentionally make up nonsense to support your position because you have no real evidence upon which to claim Jeremy is innocent.

You even keep intentionally lying by saying the ME determined the only contact shot was against Nicholas though the finding was the only sure contact shot was her fatal throat shot.

You are just digging your hole deeper each time you make up nonsense.

If you want nonsense I suggest you take a look at the late Robert Boutflour's claims about the location of SC's body:

The late Robert Boutflour claims the following:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=246.0;attach=639

"Excerpt from RB's diary on 11th August 1985:

"Wake up Sheila, Mummy wants you to say prayers with her, bring your bible, give me your arm, I'll help you".  When in their mother's bedroom, "lie down here darling, put the bible on your chest" the bible is placed on her chest, "give me your hand Sheila darling".  The gun has been rested on the bible, the hands are taken, the left hand is placed on the end of the barrell under the chin as the right hand is placed on the trigger guard and the thumb pressed onto the triger.  bang - Sheila has committed suicide!!"

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Angelo222

De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Angelo222

The jury were taken to the shooting range to hear the sound of the gun with and without silencer.  Do we have any documentary evidence with the outcome?

I understand NGB over on Blue has considerable experience with guns and he has posted up that whether or not the silencer was attached would make very little difference in terms of sound.  He also stated that more than 20 feet away (within WHF) and any sound is likely to be lost and very unlikely to have been heard outside even with windows open.  Prior to actually entering WHF the nearest anyone got to it was an adjacent barn.

I doubt very much if Neil Bellis has fired a .22 rifle inside his house.  As for nobody being around the farmhouse you are wrong yet again.  There were police officers posted on every side and Jeremy walked around the entire property with several officers even before the firearms team arrived and a safe zone was established.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 01:10:14 PM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Holly Goodhead

The pathologist never said it is common to find suicide victims who died from 2 shots.  Multiple gunshot suicides are rare not common.  More importantly the pathologist said the fatal shot was fired first.  She can't have pulled the second shot because she was already dead.

That is why you are now making up your own nonsense as usual to try to pretend she could have fired the second shot even though she was dead.

I explained what a cadaveric spasm is and how it works.  I even explained under what situations it is called death grip and why. I explained how guns work. How can muscles freezing exactly in the state they are in at the time of death cause a gun that is not full auto to fire?
 
I actually backed up my points while you didn't.  You never explain and prove anything.  You make things up merely. You made up the claim that a cadaveric spasm is going to result in a second shot and worse you assert that she suffered from such a spasm even though no evidence was found by the pathologist and if her hands did freeze in the position they were in at the time of death then she definitely wasn't holding the rifle. Moreover as I pointed out the weapon's recoil would force it up not down thus even if she had still been alive a few seconds and able to push the trigger again the second would would have been higher not lower.

My theories that you say you refuse to fall for are not theories but rather facts.  I take into account ALL available evidence and information and make an assessment based thereupon.  You refuse to accept facts and evidence and instead make up your own like ignoring no evidence of death grip was found and assering it anyway as a possibility.

Since you want to discuss the likes of me and the likes of you I will do so.

I do not make up a position out of thin air because it is what I wish to believe and then seek out anything I can use to justify my position.  I do not make up evidence or claims to support my position.  I research all available evidence, evaluate the accuracy of that evidence and I follow the evidence where it takes me.  That is how I come up with a position, I don't make up a position in advance I let the evidence determine what my position will be on any given issue.

You don't follow the evidence.  You make up the position you want to take and then you look for evidence that can support your claims but if you can't find any then in that case you make it up.  You ignore common sense and absolute facts to suit your agenda.

Your arguments consist of irrational desperation. Anytime the pathologist says something you don't like you ignore it, especially his damaging testimony. The pathologist found that Sheila's fatal wound was the only sure contact shot of any of the 25 wounds the victims suffered. He identified other shots that could possibly have been contact shots but he doubted it he believes they were simply close shopts. The pathologist declared that it was a virtual certaintly that a contact wound to the location where the fatal shot was delivered would result in back spatter.  He said he was surprised that there was no back spatter in the rifle.  He said this made sense only after the suppressor was provided to him and her blood type was found in the suppressor. He said the fact the rifle had no back spatter but the suppressor did indicated that she was shot with the suppressor attached when the fatal shot was fired. Of all 25 shots fired the only one for sure that he determined to be a contact wound was Sheila's fatal wound and he said based on the location it is a vurtual certaintly there would be back spatter.

You ignored his assessments and outright lied claiming that the only wound he determined to be a contact wound was to Nicholas. Next you made the unsupported claim that back spatter is rare.  You completely ignored the required analysis to assess whether back spatter is likely.  First and foremost that means the location of the shot. Some areas of the body are much more likely to result in back spatter than others.  The location in question was extremely likely. A medical professional actually examined the body and made an assessment of how likely back spatter would be based on the exact location of the wound.  But this evidence and conclusion completely demolish your position that Jeremy is innocent.

Do you accept the truth?  No  Do you seek out an expert who can analyze the body and come to different conclusions based on solid science?  no you simply pretend the evidence doesn't exist and make up the claim back spatter would be unlikely to occur.

I started my research on the JB website and entertained the possiiblity he was innocent.  The more research I did the more I realize his supporters are resorting to lies not valid argument supported by credible evidence. I independently came to the same conclusion as Jeremy's prosecutors, I did not simply adopt their views wholesale. I followed the evidence and tha tis how I know Jeremy is guilty.  I don't just believe he is guilty the evidence is so overwhelming there is no doubt at all.

Why should I just let you run around spouting nonsense unchallenged? When nonsense goes unchallenged then it means ignorant people are more likely to fall for it.  Is your problem that I stnad in the way of your propaganda campaign?  I love to debate and I am interested in accurate information and the truth being published so that is where I stand.  When I see inaccurate infromation posted I challenge it, simple as that.


Lol Scipio and you accuse me of nonsense and BS!

I stopped after the first sentence but you are once again wrong in your assertions which are never backed up with any documentary evidence:

With regard to suicide by multiple gunshot wounds the pathologist actually stated:

"Suicide with two shots does occur.  I have experienced four of five in the past".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206.0;attach=738

You claim the pathologist said the fatal shot was fired first.  This again is simply untrue.  This is what he ACTUALLY stated:

"The upper wound to the neck would have been fatal virtually instantaneously.  The lower wound had caused substantial haemorrhage into soft tissues of the neck, principally from the right jugular vein.  In my view this injury, although life threatening, would not have caused rapid death as in the other wound. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=672

It is absurd to assert that the first wound was fatal.  If this was the case the pathologist would have confirmed murder or introduced some condition like cadaveric state. 

I have not gone through the rest of your post as it is obvious you make it up as you go along and never include links to support your assertions. Oh I forgot no need is there because you just happen to be a lawyer, gun expert, pathologist, psychologist all rolled into one.  Nice try my friend  8@??)(





Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

I doubt very much if Neil Bellis has fired a .22 rifle inside his house.  As for nobody being around the farmhouse you are wrong yet again.  There were police officers posted on every side and Jeremy walked around the entire property with several officers even before the firearms team arrived and a safe zone was established.

I didn't say nobody was around the WHF I said the closest was an adjacent barn.  I am well aware of the position of the firearms team.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Malcolm Fletcher was the firearms expert he didn't inspect the bodies. Vanezis inspected the bodies and he determined the only definite contact wound was Sheila's fatal shot.  The witness to defer to is Vanezis because he is the one who inspected the bodies not FLether so Flether has no basis to make any assertions about which shot was a contact shot or not. Moreover, Vanezis is the one with the medical knowledge not Fletcher.

 

He said they APPEAR to be contact or close contact.  Other victims also incurred wounds which appear to be contact or close contact.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline scipio_usmc

The jury were taken to the shooting range to hear the sound of the gun with and without silencer.  Do we have any documentary evidence with the outcome?

I understand NGB over on Blue has considerable experience with guns and he has posted up that whether or not the silencer was attached would make very little difference in terms of sound.  He also stated that more than 20 feet away (within WHF) and any sound is likely to be lost and very unlikely to have been heard outside even with windows open.  Prior to actually entering WHF the nearest anyone got to it was an adjacent barn.

That is BS that 20 feet away you would not be able to hear the shots or that from in another room or outside the house you would not hear the shots. I have far more considerable experience with firearms than any clown who posts at "blue".  I have fired every caliber imaginable from .50 browning to 22 rimfire. 

Shots make noise for several different reasons. Unless ammunition is subsonic it produces a sonic boom. Anything at or over roughly 1100FPS will result in a sonic boom but because of temperature variations and other variations you can still have a sonic boom at over 1050FPS it depends on a variety of factors.

The other main source of noise are the gasses etc that are expelled (primarily out of the barrel). Just using subsonic ammo is not enough to significantly reduce the report of a weapon.  You need to use a suppressor to handle the gases and subsonic ammo to handle the sonic boom. 

When someone says there is no marked difference between firing with or without a suppressor that is a dead giveaway they are either intentionally lying or never fired a weapon using subsonic rounds with and without a suppressor. Using ordinary rounds there is little difference between a supressed and nonsupressed weapon. Using subsonic rounds (that actually work) with a suppressor and without have a siginficant difference in report.

If there is a lot of noise then people outside a house might miss a gun going off in the house. They could think it is just a drinking glass breaking or something like that. Cops specifically outside because they think there might be someone inside with a gun are going to hear a shot form an unsupressed weapon and are going to hear it especially if in the house.

You just stepped in it because you are touching upon why Jeremy's own claims are not credible.  Testimony of others was that this gun was stored in the closet with the suppressor on it and that is was always used with the suppressor.  This is especially the case for shooting rabbits.  Rabbits are small targets so that alone makes it a challenge to shoot them.  But worse they have great reaction time. They react when they hear a shot fired and that reaction is enough to miss. They don't have to move too far for the round to miss.  That is the main reason why suppressors are used when shooting rabbits. The benefit of slightly reduced recoil, less damage to the shooters ears, less disturbance to third parties are all nice but the main reason for using the suppressor is so rabbits will not have time to react.
   
Jeremy first stated he had not used the weapon the week prior to the murders.  To try to contradict his cousin's statement about the gun being stored with the suppressor and scope attached he later changed to claiming he had used it at various times throughout the week and claimed he had used it both with and without the suppressor and scope. 

Why would he remove the suppressor and scope to shoot bunnies or even for target shooting?  It makes no sense. He claimed it was necessary to remove them to put the gun in its case but the gun was not usually stored in its case.  It was a hassle to have to take the gun from its case and then attach and zero the scope and attach the suppressor. It was easier to just store the weapon as is in the closet like was done with so many other rifles. That is what they typically did according to everyone who used these rifles- except Jeremy only he had a different story and his story makes no sense. They frequently used guns to shoot pests. They needed to grab them and use them right away to get the pests they didn't have time to zero weapons first.  Given the frequency of use it made absolutely no sense to take the weapon apart to put in a case. That is what you do when you want to store it for a long period of time without use. 

Jeremy says he used it with and without the accessories. He says that sometimes he was too lazy to reattach the accessories and just would use it as is without the accessories. That makes no sense if you are lazy you don't take the accessories off you leave them there and store the gun with them attached which is what they usually did. You would definitely want the accessories attached in order to shoot rabbits. It takes a minute to screw a suppressor on anyway so even if too lazy to attach the scope because of all the effort involved there is little effort to attach a suppressor. To shoot a rabbit you definitely want the suppressor.  There was another gun in the closet that had a suppressor attached already why wouldn't he grab that weapon if he actually intended to shoot rabbits as claimed?

Naturally the answer to this quesiton on the "blue" forum is to make up the lie that the suppressor didn't really do anything. That lie is to try to make Jeremy's claims credible and seem like they make sense.  But if that were the case no one would bother to buy a suppressor at all. The reason why people buy suppressors is because they do make an appreciable difference when used in combo with subsonic ammunition. It makes a difference on he shooter's ears and on the target hearing the shot coming.

In keeping with your nature you always do everything backwards you don't care about logic or evidence.

The burden is on you to establish that Sheila died significantly later than the other victims. Vanezis found no evidence that she died hours after the others.  You need that kind of evidence to suggest your claim is even plausible.  You don't have such evidence.  You are not following the available evidence you are just making things up.   

You have an agenda and in support of that agenda you ignore reality and make things up. In turn this means you have no credibility.  WHy do you care so little about having credibility that you continue to ignore reality and make things up? 


 

His claim he was going to go shoot rabbits without the scope and suppressor is downright stupid.
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli