Author Topic: Multiple reasons why Sheila Caffell is innocent and Jeremy Bamber is guilty  (Read 272534 times)

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Offline Daisy

Nicely rounded up, Jodie. The biggest mistake that Bamber made was not smearing Ralph's blood on the phone. The call to Julie was a killer, and his behaviour before, during and after the funerals sealed the deal. Then...his feet on Ralph's desk, the disrespect, the mad selling of anything valuable, and the fact that he was "too busy" to attend the memorial.

So shabby.

I asked Jeremy this very question "why didn't you attend the memorial service for your parents?"  He looked genuinely puzzled and said he was unaware that there ever was a service for them.  He said they may have been mentioned at the normal Sunday service but he had no knowledge of an "official" memorial service.  I can usually tell when Jeremy is lying and on this occasion I believed him.  Also I have read Colin's book and there was no mention of a service and of course he was closer to the family than most.
Is this a nasty rumour which was started by someone wishing to discredit Jeremy further?  If not I would like to see evidence of this service eg press reports etc.  Failing that, rumours should not be continually repeated as fact.  I apologise in advance if anyone can provide evidence of this memorial service.

Offline Joanne

As regards a memorial service. I can't find evidence that confirms there was a service or not, however, common sense dictates to me the following-: the murders took place on 7th August 1985 and the funeral a little over a week later, at this time it was classed as four murders and a suicide and within hours of this happening, there were reporters all over the village. With the funerals being so close to the event and all the publicity around it, it doesn't make any sense to have held a memorial service, it would have been chaos and probably might have turned somewhat disrespectful to have held a memorial with so many reporters around and the possibility of 'tourists' showing up to have a look, if that makes sense-I hope you'll understand how I'm looking at this.
However, there was a plaque erected and a light outside as a memorial to the Bamber's (Mr and Mrs Bamber) as they had been church wardens and whether this was then a chance for the villagers to come together to remember and pay tribute to the Bambers including Sheila, Nicholas and Daniel I don't know but this would make more sense to me and it wouldn't have attracted as much press and media intrusion or random strangers turning up either.
Its quite possible this happened either while Jeremy Bambers trial was up and running and the media attention was focused on that or after the trial had finished I don't know. It was probably a quiet and sombre affair in reflection of the people and the event and I can imagine it being very low key.

Offline Jodie

Nicely rounded up, Jodie. The biggest mistake that Bamber made was not smearing Ralph's blood on the phone. The call to Julie was a killer, and his behaviour before, during and after the funerals sealed the deal. Then...his feet on Ralph's desk, the disrespect, the mad selling of anything valuable, and the fact that he was "too busy" to attend the memorial.

So shabby.

Thanks. I think it didn't even enter Jeremy's mind to put blood on the phone. Its probably something he didn't think would be significant and that simply leaving the receiver off the hook would be enough to give weight to his claim that the line went dead/Ralph was interrupted. The fact that police would be able to determine the sequence of events and indeed that Ralph would have been unable to speak with the injuries he'd sustained is something I doubt JB would have been able to predict. After all, he didn't think the fact that Sheila's body was pristine would matter either.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 04:58:06 PM by Jodie »

Offline Lindyhop

Something else I found interesting was JB asking the police if it was possible to tell what order his family had died. A rather curious question, which he said was about the inheritance (shows where his mind was - your entire family has just been wiped out and your main focus is money!)

I've always wondered if he deliberately killed Sheila last just in case it was possible to tell what order they'd died, or if he killed her before June and/or Nevill and was anxious about the true order of deaths being discovered?


Offline scipio_usmc

Something else I found interesting was JB asking the police if it was possible to tell what order his family had died. A rather curious question, which he said was about the inheritance (shows where his mind was - your entire family has just been wiped out and your main focus is money!)

I've always wondered if he deliberately killed Sheila last just in case it was possible to tell what order they'd died, or if he killed her before June and/or Nevill and was anxious about the true order of deaths being discovered?

As a practical matter there is little way to tell who dies first or last unless there are different causes of death such as smoke inhalation killing someone where there is a fire but others not having smoke in their lungs, that would indicate some were killed before the fire was set.

Even today with all our various tools avaiable the matter of minutes cannot be distinguished and on extremely rare occasions where they can determine someone would have survived longer than another victim it won't necessarily say who was shot first.

With that being said in order for his farce to be true Sheila needed to kill herself last or the others would not have been dead. I doubt he believed police would be able to tell who was shot first though. So he didn't really have to worry about it except he couldn't kill her far in advance of the others as that might be able to be discerned.

The claim he needed to know for inheritence sake is actually BS.  Which parent died first matters not. Depending upon their wills it may or may not matter how long passed between their deaths and hers.  Most wills have a clause that requires death of a beneficiary to occur 1 month later for the assest to pass under the dead beneficiary's will. If that is not the case with their will then potentially her will if she had one could have dicated what happened to her share. Either way he had to kill his nephews to inherit everything or they would get Sheila's share. That is why he had to do it when all of them were together.

If Sheila was depressed and wanted to kill herself and her kids she could have done so whenever she wanted.  The killing of her parents was something Jeremy needed not her. The timing of day when it happened also was suited for Jeremy's purposes.

I think Jeremy was asking police though just to see if they were on to him and so he could see what potentially they had to dispute the notion Sheila killed them all and committed suicide.

I personally suspect he might have brought her in the bedroom and shot all 3 of them and while aiming at others that is how Nevill was able to escape the room. He thought the 2 shots into Nevill's face were sufficient but they were not and then he shot 2 more times as he was moving so hit him in the arm and shoulder only. That could explain his concern. Maybe Nevill was shot the final 4 times after Sheila was already dead.

We will neve rknow for sure though.   

“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Holly Goodhead

Holly, whilst I think you're a bit barmy, I also think you're a great asset to this forum.

Hope you don't mind me saying! ?{)(**

Thank you Sika  ?{)(**

Hopefully in a few months time I will have completed the sale of my biz and will have some spare time on my hands. Subject to agreement from John I hope to set up a section on the forum entitled 'Consumer Affairs' (perhaps a bit sexier/more original) where we can compare energy tariffs, mobile phone contracts etc and a whole host of other impartial and relevant info for consumers.  Basically putting members/the consumer in the driving seat  8(0(* 8(>(( It kinda fits with the name of the forum 'UK justice' and will certainly distinguish us from our main cough competitor 'Blue'.  There may be some commercial benefits to this in the future too.  Yes I know comparison sites exist but we will find an edge  ?>)()<  Indeed I can see one already which just needs developing  8(0(*
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster


I've always wondered if he deliberately killed Sheila last just in case it was possible to tell what order they'd died, or if he killed her before June and/or Nevill and was anxious about the true order of deaths being discovered?

The most likely order was June, Nevill, then Sheila, with the twins either first or last.

The blood on June Bamber's pillow indicates that she was in bed when first shot, Nevill probably getting up to defend his wife and himself.  Nevill then being shot tries to escape the onslaught or is forced downstairs, reaching the kitchen before he too was killed.

Sheila if in a haloperidol-induced drowsy state led from her bedroom to her parents' bedroom, or if fully awake and aware tried to hide - in the twins' bedroom, neighbouring box-room or by her parents' bedside where she was discovered.

Jeremy Bamber might have ensured June was dead by the last shot between her eyes as she lay by her bedroom door.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Thanks. I think it didn't even enter Jeremy's mind to put blood on the phone. Its probably something he didn't think would be significant and that simply leaving the receiver off the hook would be enough to give weight to his claim that the line went dead/Ralph was interrupted. The fact that police would be able to determine the sequence of events and indeed that Ralph would have been unable to speak with the injuries he'd sustained is something I doubt JB would have been able to predict. After all, he didn't think the fact that Sheila's body was pristine would matter either.

Hi Jodie. Welcome to the forum  ?{)(**

Have you ever thought that the phone off the hook in the kitchen might be a complete red herring? Ie the natural assumption is that JB said he received a call and the phone was found off the hook therefore the two are connected?  According to JB he received a call from NB.  JB was apparently cut off and then found himself unable to reconnect with NB.  Assuming this is true how do we know that:

1. No one had been shot at this stage and the situation developed whilst NB was on the phone to JB (office/kitchen) and NB curtailed conversation by dropping phone.

2. The situation escalated and NB cut off JB to call EP (as per log) and then left phone (kitchen) off hook to deal with sound of gunshot prior to being shot himself.

3. Phone replaced after 2 and SC later attempted to make a farewell call to a friend/Freddie/Colin/Birth mother or any other person even JB and left phone off hook.

I believe JB innocent but I don't believe that NB would call JB had anyone been shot.  Absolutely not he would call emergency services.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Something else I found interesting was JB asking the police if it was possible to tell what order his family had died. A rather curious question, which he said was about the inheritance (shows where his mind was - your entire family has just been wiped out and your main focus is money!)

I've always wondered if he deliberately killed Sheila last just in case it was possible to tell what order they'd died, or if he killed her before June and/or Nevill and was anxious about the true order of deaths being discovered?

According to JB he was asked this info (standard) by solicitor/accountant?  Generally speaking most married couples have 'mirror' wills ie if husband dies all goes to wife and vice-versa ie wife dies all goes to husband.  Upon second death ie husband or wife it is usual for the children to be the main beneficiaries usually in equal shares.  As far as I can see that's how it was in this case?  There were small bequests eg Jean Boutell (housekeeper) 1K from June.  I believe NB and June had slightly different wills eg Sheila was to receive June's share of OCP freehold and JB farm land?  In reality it would have made little difference in terms of order of deaths.  Sheila was divorced.  The twins were not named beneficiaries of the wills.  Therefore by default all would have ended up with JB regardless of order of deaths:

As SC was deceased and therefore NB and June's estate hadn't passed into SC's estate JB was next of kin to

NB
June

and therefore the sole beneficiary

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

No I don't need to factor in adoption.

The issue is the murders and her alleged suicide. The issue is to look in detail at the causes behind murders and murder suicides of those with mental conditions and determine whether there is any evidence that occurred in this case.

It is alleged that she suffered from a psychotic episode. The issue is what evidence is there to establish she suffered from a psychotic episode and if she did what shape would such an episode take and who would she kill. 

You keep trying to turn the inquiry upside down to suit your own agenda instead of following the facts.

The fact of the matter is that so far as murder suicides are concerned people in depression give up on life and decide to end their life and those they are responsible for taking care of.  Some go further and decide to take as many innocent people as they can with them but that features much more than just depression at work.  Her depression, in fact her schizophrenia, was not severe and even when it was first discovered years earlier none of her medical professionals thought it was serious enough that she would ever harm her children or herself.  her case was MILD not severe.  Moreover she was receiving treatment. Therein lies a big distinction between cases where suicide/murders are known to have occurred.  Known cases involve people who were either not being treated or who were being treated but stopped taking their medication.  It is difficult to find any cases where people with mental conditions kill themselves or others because of mental problems while on their medication unless under the influence of some other drug that induces psychosis.

Jeremy supporters consistently lie on this issue. They suggest she was not taking her medication or that it didn't work because it ran out.  It was found in her system it had not run out. The next bogus claim is that because her dosage was lowered this means it would not likely be effective. Tests show that 100MG has no appreciable difference between 200MG. The standard dosage today is 50-100MG because higher dosages have much greater side effects with little difference in effectiveness. Only severe cases warrant more.

Only hours before her death her aunt spoke with her over the phone, she was docile and quiet not agitated.

Everyone would normally go to sleep shortly after that.  So what would suddenly agitate her to a tremndous degree at a late hour so much that her medicine would stop working and she woudl ggo wake people up to even yell at them?

If she were depressed and wanted to end her life and her dependents why kill her parents too?  That is not part of the pattern even of someone who is not medicated let alone medicated.  Her father was among her most beloved people. Her mother is the one she had a problem with. So a different theory is posited for killing him.  It is suggested her medication stopped working and she had a delusion he was the devil and she needed to kill him or that he had the devil in him and she needed to beat it out of him.  That would not explain the deaths of the others though.  People deluded like this will kill the one viewed as the devil not everyone.  They will even wait calmly for police to arrest them afterwards.  At any rate there are no examples of people who were actively taking their medication who ended up killing anyone else because of a delusion.

So we are supposed to buy that she suffered simultaneously from psychotic delusion and suicidal depression and both resulted in the various deaths.  How many reported cases are there of this among medicated psyc patients?  None.   

You ignore all the issues of significance including the preparations made by the killer which evidence the killer intended to escape liability and go on living alone.  That is the only reason for removing the phone. Also for putting the suppressor away.

You distorted the case of a man who killed himself with his family erroneously claiming he washed his car after he murdered them to suggest it is likely she took a bath and changed her clothes after killing everyone which again would be totally contrary to the murder suicide theory you allege. 

Your claims are a complete mess. You are just embarrassing yourself.

Trying to divert attention to talk about her adoption will not work with me.  I can't be dazzled with BS or diverted.

Well without wishing to sound rude I think you do!

You will struggle to find a modern day psychologist that will disagree with the fact that a psychology exists peculiar to adoptive families especially those pertaining to the 'closed' system.  It is futile to discuss SC's mental illness/psychological profile without factoring this in.  We know for a fact that this loomed large in SC's mind hence the meeting with her birth mother only weeks before the murders.  If you want to deny this be my guest but as I said you will struggle to find a mental health professional the world over who agrees with you.  Moreover what throws it off the Richter scale is June's mental illness circa 1959 as a result of adopting SC.  I would suggest this is how June ended up with a bullet between the eyes.  I do not for one minute think June intended any harm to SC but the fact is she did albeit unintentionally:

The Beginning

SC - subjected to June's mental illness circa 1959 and possible neglect and attachment disorder as a result of

JB - n/a

The End

SC - met with her birth mother for the first time May '85

JB - showed no interest in his birth family until after his failed '02 appeal

This is what sets the adopted siblings apart and as I said you will struggle to find a modern day psychologist/psychiatrist etc the world over to see it otherwise.  Especially against a backdrop of spurious 'evidence'  8(0(*
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Will the new books both be alleging that his case is an MOJ?

You seem very confident about Jeremy's prospects at the moment, any particular reason? What's going to happen later this year?

We don't have a zippy mouth emoticon? 

I feel confident that in the near future JB's case will once again be centre stage. This time I think it will be different in terms of no stone left being left unturned  8(0(*

 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Jodie

Hi Jodie. Welcome to the forum  ?{)(**

Have you ever thought that the phone off the hook in the kitchen might be a complete red herring? Ie the natural assumption is that JB said he received a call and the phone was found off the hook therefore the two are connected?  According to JB he received a call from NB.  JB was apparently cut off and then found himself unable to reconnect with NB.  Assuming this is true how do we know that:

1. No one had been shot at this stage and the situation developed whilst NB was on the phone to JB (office/kitchen) and NB curtailed conversation by dropping phone.

2. The situation escalated and NB cut off JB to call EP (as per log) and then left phone (kitchen) off hook to deal with sound of gunshot prior to being shot himself.

3. Phone replaced after 2 and SC later attempted to make a farewell call to a friend/Freddie/Colin/Birth mother or any other person even JB and left phone off hook.

I believe JB innocent but I don't believe that NB would call JB had anyone been shot.  Absolutely not he would call emergency services.

Hi Holly, it's great to talk to you. You bring up some interesting points although as I'm sure you're used to on here I think we may disagree on a few!

It could indeed be a red herring and not be connected to the murders but I find that unlikely. The fact the phone was in the kitchen in the first place raises my suspicions. If that phone was usually in the bedroom why was it in the kitchen at all? It seems very convenient that there was no phone in the bedroom meaning when the action started there was no way to call anyone for help without having to go downstairs. Someone not wanting to get caught would move the phone out of the way so as to prevent anyone from quickly using it and revealing the identity of the culprit. Do you have any theories as to why the phone was downstairs? You could argue I suppose that the fact it had been moved again is a red herring and has nothing to do with the murders but I find that hard to believe.

If Sheila did attempt to make a call from the kitchen how does that explain the lack of debris/blood on her feet? Or do you think she may have attempted this before carrying out the murders?

In your scenario, assuming Ralph wouldn't call Jeremy if any shots had already been fired, you believe he made the call before anyone was injured? What was Sheila doing whilst this was going on? We know Ralph was shot upstairs first before receiving fatal blows in the kitchen. Does that mean he came back upstairs after calling Jeremy to confront Sheila or was he forced up the stairs by her?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Ooh, I know this one!

They're little, round and green, and Jeremy Bamber thinks they should be cooked for 45 minutes.    8((()*/

Hi puglove

Think our fun with the 'other forum' has been somewhat curtailed  8)><( 8)><( 8)><(

You make me  @)(++(* with JB and his BS! 

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere JB does his own cooking?  Is that the norm for cat A prisoners?  Think Misty's owner posted up that JB cooked him a meal?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

We don't have a zippy mouth emoticon? 

I feel confident that in the near future JB's case will once again be centre stage. This time I think it will be different in terms of no stone left being left unturned  8(0(*
Is your piggy-bank that will soon be winging its way to Children-In-Need full of pound coins yet ?   

It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline puglove

We don't have a zippy mouth emoticon? 

I feel confident that in the near future JB's case will once again be centre stage. This time I think it will be different in terms of no stone left being left unturned  8(0(*

 


www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLXT2UOW4gk


 8((()*/
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.