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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => The case of 3-year-old Mikaeel Kular found dead in a Kirkcaldy wood. => Topic started by: John on January 18, 2014, 02:06:32 AM

Title: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 18, 2014, 02:06:32 AM
Mikaeel Kular's mother detained after boy's body found in Fife.

Police arrest Rosdeep Kular after body thought to be that of missing three-year-old is discovered at property in Kirkcaldy.

(http://i.guim.co.uk/item-620/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2014/1/18/1390039973900/Three-Year-Old-Boy-Missin-012.jpg)

Police stand outside a bungalow in Kirkcaldy where a young boy's body, believed to be that Mikaeel Kular, was found nearby on Friday night.

The mother of the missing Edinburgh boy Mikaeel Kular has been detained by police after they discovered a body at a relative's home in Fife they "strongly believe" to be that of the missing three-year-old.

Police have cordoned off the area surrounding a bungalow in Kirkcaldy believed to belong to the sister of Mikaeel's mother, Rosdeep Kular, 33. Kular has been held by police for questioning about the discovery.

Read more... (http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/18/mikaeel-kular-mother-detained-body-found-fife)
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Redblossom on January 18, 2014, 02:12:44 AM
His little body is being left in situ overnight and forensics will begin their investigations in the morning..how sad they have to leave him there that long..heartbreaking  8(8-))

Its a body, its a murder investigation, its medical examiners  and autopsers and the like, multiple investigations, its not a person anymore, HE is gone, his remains remain and thats all,leaving hm there for a shorter period will change nothng,harsh but true, they have to find out what happened now




Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: lizzibif on January 18, 2014, 02:18:14 AM
Its a body, its a murder investigation, its medical examiners  and autopsers and the like, multiple investigations, its not a person anymore, HE is gone, his remains remain and thats all,harsh but true, they have to find out what happened now

i do know all that red..its still sad he cant be moved.. 8(8-))
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 18, 2014, 02:24:24 AM
It appears the mother is from Kirkcaldy thus the connection with Fife.  Gordon Brown's constituency and the friend in a high place someone mentioned earlier.  She went to school in Kirkcaldy and trained as a beautician there before moving to nearby Glenrothes and more recently Edinburgh.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: icabodcrane on January 18, 2014, 02:25:12 AM
Its a body, its a murder investigation, its medical examiners  and autopsers and the like, multiple investigations, its not a person anymore, HE is gone, his remains remain and thats all,leaving hm there for a shorter period will change nothng,harsh but true, they have to find out what happened now

You're right,  Red.  The police have to be practical and professional  now,  and ensure the taking of  this little  boy's  life is  paid for by those responsible   ...  it's just the thought of a tiny  body left laying somewhere like that,  overnight

it's so awfully sad   8(8-))   

 


Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 18, 2014, 02:30:40 AM
You're right,  Red.  The police have to be practical and professional  now,  and ensure the taking of  this little  boy's  life is  paid for by those responsible   ...  it's just the thought of a tiny  body left laying somewhere like that,  overnight

it's so awfully sad   8(8-))

We don't know how long he has been missing yet.  I don't know if anyone has already mentioned this but the mother has been known to go out and leave the children on their own.  Only speculating here but could it have been an accident in her absence?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Redblossom on January 18, 2014, 02:32:50 AM
You're right,  Red.  The police have to be practical and professional  now,  and ensure the taking of  this little  boy's  life is  paid for by those responsible   ...  it's just the thought of a tiny  body left laying somewhere like that,  overnight

it's so awfully sad   8(8-))

It is heartbreaking and mind boggling that anyone would harm an innocent little child....But they have to focus on the s..mbags now....I feel for police  and other related professionals as much as family, they have to deal with this evil all the time

Eta sorry I just realised you meant his body being left before examination rather than his body being left  by whoever killed him....I know who is the worse...the officials wil do what they have to do at the optimum time, its sad but its how it is

Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: lizzibif on January 18, 2014, 02:33:22 AM
We don't know how long he has been missing yet.

That's true..plus we don't know if he was found outside or in a house or flat etc..
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Redblossom on January 18, 2014, 02:48:12 AM
We don't know how long he has been missing yet.  I don't know if anyone has already mentioned this but the mother has been known to go out and leave the children on their own.  Only speculating here but could it have been an accident in her absence?

Yes it was all over facebook...she left her kids alone at night continually apparently and they got taken away and put into foster care before being returned last september


So yes, possible something happened in her absence
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: icabodcrane on January 18, 2014, 02:50:44 AM
It is heartbreaking and mind boggling that anyone would harm an innocent little child....But they have to focus on the s..mbags now....I feel for police  and other related professionals as much as family, they have to deal with this evil all the time

Eta sorry I just realised you meant his body being left before examination rather than his body being left  by whoever killed him....I know who is the worse...the officials wil do what they have to do at the optimum time, its sad but its how it is

Yes,  there is that at least

Wherever this  pitiful  little boy's body lays tonight,  the police will  be protecting it as surely,  and devotedly,   as a Pretorian guard
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: lizzibif on January 18, 2014, 02:54:47 AM
at least he wont be alone god rest his little soul..time i was gone..night
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Redblossom on January 18, 2014, 02:55:16 AM
Yes,  there is that at least

Wherever this  pitiful  little boy's body lays tonight,  the police will  be protecting it as surely,  and devotedly,   as a Pretorian guard

And big Amen to that! icab and gnite and you too lizzi






Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on January 18, 2014, 03:27:26 AM

Very sad news.

Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 18, 2014, 03:58:02 AM
 Very sad news.. poor poor little boy

RIP
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on January 18, 2014, 05:03:05 AM
Statement by Assistant Chief Constable, Malcolm Graham:

http://www.scotland.police.uk/whats-happening/news/2014/january/206222/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25790828
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: colombosstogey on January 18, 2014, 05:57:51 AM
Very sad, it didnt feel like it was going to end well.

Poor baby.

Doesnt this deserve its own thread, I find it very confusing its in Maddys although it does feel like de ja vue....

Its nearly always family, friends, or friends of friends in the end.

RIP little one.x
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Eleanor on January 18, 2014, 07:19:17 AM

I am trying really hard not to be judgemental here.  And No, this does not mean that I want to excuse the behaviour of anyone involved.  I just don't want to see this turn into a bear pit over the body of a very little boy.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: jassi on January 18, 2014, 08:28:33 AM
Murder and the mother arrested another bitch bites the dust

That has yet to be determined.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: drummer on January 18, 2014, 08:29:55 AM
Sky news reporting that the little boys body was found at the home of mother's sister.


http://news.sky.com/story/1197026/mikaeels-mum-detained-as-body-discovered
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 18, 2014, 08:41:06 AM
Very sad news.

The disappearance from his mothers flat didn't make sense right from the start.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 18, 2014, 09:38:48 AM
Yes it was all over facebook...she left her kids alone at night continually apparently and they got taken away and put into foster care before being returned last september


So yes, possible something happened in her absence

I wonder how long before social services get the blame for this vile hag's inability to parent.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Aunt Agatha on January 18, 2014, 09:55:06 AM
Sky news reporting that the little boys body was found at the home of mother's sister.


http://news.sky.com/story/1197026/mikaeels-mum-detained-as-body-discovered







Omg!!  How sinister!  Her sister's flat?  So she did do it?

Have woken to the very sad news.....as people have already commented, there's going to be great sadness within the community and a lot of anger.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 18, 2014, 10:09:34 AM
The BBC  is reporting that the bungalow belongs to the grandma..
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 18, 2014, 10:12:23 AM
And there was me wondering when The Mccanns were going to get the blame.

A totally unnecessary comment in the circumstances of a little boy's death.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 18, 2014, 10:25:47 AM
My thoughts are with Mikaeel's little twin sister and the other siblings.. so sad to think how their life is looking now  8)><(
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 18, 2014, 10:26:05 AM
As  the poor boys body has been found at a family members house and the mother has been arrested...I think it is reasonable to speculate.There has been speculation about the McCanns  for six years with nothing to point blame at them.
  It appears there may  have been a staged abduction to cover up a death. what the case has shown is how difficult it would be to get away with this...3 days yet some think the McCanns have managed it for six years.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 18, 2014, 10:27:32 AM
Don't ya just lurve the irony and the hypocrisy.

spot on...body found ...mother arrested..but speculation not allowed ..oh the irony...
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 10:28:45 AM
My thoughts are with Mikaeel's little twin sister and the other siblings.. so sad to think how their life is looking now  8)><(

And I guess they have been taken into care - or who is looking after them?  and who will have had to tell them what has happened? - a very difficult task
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Cariad on January 18, 2014, 11:00:53 AM
There was a case once, many years ago now, of a little girl going missing who was later found alive in a flat. I don't think the girls name was ever released. Some "weirdo" had snatched her, but she was found alive.

I was so hoping that this would be one of those extremely rare miracles.

I went to bed late, slept in. I turned my laptop on and on the home screen bing news told me a body had been found.

I hope it was quick and clean. I hope that his siblings aren't all separated. I hope they get the support they need to be able to cope with this.

I don't know if there can ever be justice in a case like this. I don't know what justice even means when the life of a child is in the other side of the scales.

I don't believe in a God or a heaven so I can't offer prayers. In there stead, I'll make a donation to the Nspcc. It seems only slightly less futile than praying, even to an atheist, yet I have the overwhelming urge to do something.

Poor, poor child.

Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 18, 2014, 11:30:28 AM
There was a case once, many years ago now, of a little girl going missing who was later found alive in a flat. I don't think the girls name was ever released. Some "weirdo" had snatched her, but she was found alive.

I was so hoping that this would be one of those extremely rare miracles.

I went to bed late, slept in. I turned my laptop on and on the home screen bing news told me a body had been found.

I hope it was quick and clean. I hope that his siblings aren't all separated. I hope they get the support they need to be able to cope with this.

I don't know if there can ever be justice in a case like this. I don't know what justice even means when the life of a child is in the other side of the scales.

I don't believe in a God or a heaven so I can't offer prayers. In there stead, I'll make a donation to the Nspcc. It seems only slightly less futile than praying, even to an atheist, yet I have the overwhelming urge to do something.

Poor, poor child.

 he was ill...perhaps he died from natural causes compounded by neglect and that why his mother staged the abduction..we will see
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: colombosstogey on January 18, 2014, 01:14:17 PM
For now we dont know what happened sadly apart from a young child has lost his life.

What I find bizarre is a women about a week ago MURDERED her two children, then killed herself and not one mention about it anywhere, just a brief thing in the newspaper.

IS it not newsworthy.

I find the reporting of this case so over the top. Its been on all day, showing where the body is still laying, its so depressing. How can this help ANYONE.

I expect we will find the child died prior to Thursday. Why the child died is anyones guess. ALTHOUGH for me if it was accident why hide it. I hope it wasnt something to do with father wanting to take boy back to pakistan and the mother snapping, who knows.

POOR BABY. Its not the place on here to argue about this. A CHILD HAS DIED.

ANOTHER ONE....may he rest in peace.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 18, 2014, 01:28:07 PM
There was no way that child got out and went walkies.   Edinburgh police wrong footed yet again.  Lets hope they don't mess up the crime scene in Fife like they did in the Jodi Jones case.
I find it unfair, John, they took a chance, I think they were marvellous.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 18, 2014, 01:34:47 PM
Sorry Yes your right.

I'm annoyed & a bit upset by this whole story.
The woman appears to have been a shockingly sh8t mother.
This wee boy looked happy.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: jassi on January 18, 2014, 01:39:45 PM
Sorry Yes your right.

I'm annoyed & a bit upset by this whole story.
The woman appears to have been a shockingly sh8t mother.

On the face of it, yes, but we shouldn't be too judgmental at this stage. Bringing up 5 children on your own  can't have been easy and none of us know what actually happened in the run-up to this.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 18, 2014, 01:42:45 PM
I find it unfair, John, they took a chance, I think they were marvellous.

They at least took a chance on the unlikely possibility that he woke up, got dresses & went for a walk,
whilst simultaneously investigating the obvious reality that kids don't tend to do that.
They gave him that chance, what more could they do.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Cariad on January 18, 2014, 01:49:19 PM
Sorry Yes your right.

I'm annoyed & a bit upset by this whole story.
The woman appears to have been a shockingly sh8t mother.

Me too. Despite the child's sad demise being the most likely outcome, I felt almost shocked when I read the news this morning.

I admit I had a bit of a cry too, which is most unlike me.

The world just seems like such a horrible place today.

Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 18, 2014, 01:50:50 PM
On the face of it, yes, but we shouldn't be too judgmental at this stage. Bringing up 5 children on your own  can't have been easy and none of us know what actually happened in the run-up to this.

'Bringing up 5 children on your own  can't have been easy'

Don't have 5 children, it's that simple. 

Did she find 4 easy but when she reached 5 it became too much.

I'm always appalled by people who pump out huge batches of kids & can't/ don't/ won't look after them.
 
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 01:52:41 PM
Did she find 4 easy but when she reached 5 it became too much.


he last two, Mikaeel and his sister, were twins; so it was 3 then plus 2, not 4 then plus 1
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: jassi on January 18, 2014, 01:53:43 PM
They at least took a chance on the unlikely possibility that he woke up, got dresses & went for a walk,
whilst simultaneously investigating the obvious reality that kids don't tend to do that.
They gave him that chance, what more could they do.
Can you imagine the criticism  if they hadn't extensive searches ?
They probably went a bit OTT with searching the shoreline, though given the age of the child and how far he could likely have traveled.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 18, 2014, 01:54:21 PM
Me too. Despite the child's sad demise being the most likely outcome, I felt almost shocked when I read the news this morning.

I admit I had a bit of a cry too, which is most unlike me.

The world just seems like such a horrible place today.

It's not the planet, it's the horrible human species which pollutes it with it's presence.

Like I said the other day, Oscar nominations took presedence over this boys life & he was apparently worth nothing near as much in financial terms as little white girls.



Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 18, 2014, 01:56:16 PM
he last two, Mikaeel and his sister, were twins; so it was 3 then plus 2, not 4 then plus 1

Ok yep sorry, but wasn't 3 enough then?

The woman is only in her early thirties.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 18, 2014, 01:58:49 PM

The world just seems like such a horrible place today.
Look at all those people searching for the wee boy, no the world isn't an horrible place.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 02:02:47 PM
Ok yep sorry, but wasn't 3 enough then?

The woman is only in her early thirties.

Maybe she wanted a child by Mikaeel's father and did not expect twins.  Having twins can be a real shock with twice the work needed and making life considerably more difficult than was expected
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Cariad on January 18, 2014, 02:04:35 PM
Look at all those people searching for the wee boy, no the world isn't an horrible place.

Of course you're right. It's hard to look past the hideous event that led to the searches to see the beauty of humanity working together to find a small child.

WS, it's not just a Mother who makes a baby. There were two absentee fathers as well. I don't know why they were n't around, nor do I know how the child died.

Blaming the Mother without acknowledging the role of the father is almost misogynistic.

Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 02:05:57 PM
Of course you're right. It's hard to look past the hideous event that led to the searches to see the beauty of humanity working together to find a small child.

WS, it's not just a Mother who makes a baby. There were two absentee fathers as well. I don't know why they were n't around, nor do I know how the child died.

Blaming the Mother without acknowledging the role of the father is almost misogynistic.

Apparently the father of the first three children (her ex-husband) lived near and kept contact
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 18, 2014, 02:08:01 PM
You will probably have seen in the Press that her boyfriend was shot not so long ago, this probably had a bearing on her ability to cope.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 18, 2014, 02:09:03 PM
its a simple fact that there are those who feel they have the right to cast judgement on everyone else... I don't think they do...we don't yet know what happened...perhaps it would be better to find out the facts before referring to her a  sh8t mother.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: jassi on January 18, 2014, 02:09:48 PM
You will probably have seen in the Press that her boyfriend was shot not so long ago, this probably had a bearing on her ability to cope.

I did wonder if this might have been a factor.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 18, 2014, 02:10:04 PM
Of course you're right. It's hard to look past the hideous event that led to the searches to see the beauty of humanity working together to find a small child.

WS, it's not just a Mother who makes a baby. There were two absentee fathers as well. I don't know why they were n't around, nor do I know how the child died.

Blaming the Mother without acknowledging the role of the father is almost misogynistic.

I was just about to say to CPN that it looks like neither father bothered to stick around either.

And yes I am sexist, sorry ladies.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 18, 2014, 02:13:33 PM
its a simple fact that there are those who feel they have the right to cast judgement on everyone else... I don't think they do...we don't yet know what happened...perhaps it would be better to find out the facts before referring to her a  sh8t mother.

How else should I describe a woman who had 5 kids & went out leaving them alone in doors at night?

And the simple fact is I have a right to an opinion, no matter how much anyone disagrees with it.

In my opinion this woman was a sh8t parent.

Were her kids put into foster care because of her exceptional parenting skills?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 02:15:18 PM
You will probably have seen in the Press that her boyfriend was shot not so long ago, this probably had a bearing on her ability to cope.

I thought it was a friend of her boyfriend who was shot?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 02:16:56 PM
I was just about to say to CPN that it looks like neither father bothered to stick around either.

And yes I am sexist, sorry ladies.

 I read that the mother divorced her husband, and he was very upset about it - and did stay around.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 18, 2014, 02:25:57 PM
How else should I describe a woman who had 5 kids & went out leaving them alone in doors at night?

And the simple fact is I have a right to an opinion, no matter how much anyone disagrees with it.

In my opinion this woman was a sh8t parent.

Were her kids put into foster care because of her exceptional parenting skills?

 Well from what you have written the whole human race is sh8t
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Lyall on January 18, 2014, 02:32:45 PM
WS - there are plenty of poor parents around, but it is of course still extremely rare for a death to occur. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions here mate.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 18, 2014, 02:33:57 PM
Yes,  there is that at least

Wherever this  pitiful  little boy's body lays tonight,  the police will  be protecting it as surely,  and devotedly,   as a Pretorian guard
That guard around the (seemingly) compost container where they found the body makes all the difference.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 18, 2014, 02:34:13 PM
Well from what you have written the whole human race is sh8t

I sometimes think that way yes & it's horrible things like people that tend to make me think that way.

How can there be a God when so much bad sh8t happens like neglect & deaths of little children.

If God made everything then he made cancer, what sort of evil bast8rd does that?


Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 18, 2014, 02:35:21 PM
I sometimes think that way yes & it's horrible things like people that tend to make me think that way.

How can there be a God when so much bad sh8t happens like neglect & deaths of little children.

If God made everything then he made cancer, what sort of evil bast8rd does that?

Who believes in God
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 18, 2014, 02:35:59 PM
Who believes in God

I certainly don't.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 18, 2014, 02:42:34 PM
Can we have some respect please given the subject of the thread. TY
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 18, 2014, 02:53:31 PM
I did wonder if this might have been a factor.

Me too.. maybe her logical reasoning was affected by this event..

Also the court case re this is due quite soon.. the bbc article reporting it dates 9th January
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 18, 2014, 02:55:58 PM
I just looked at her facebook photos.. she looks like a caring mother..

Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Serendipity on January 18, 2014, 02:59:16 PM
That guard around the (seemingly) compost container where they found the body makes all the difference.

Have just blown the image up and to be honest that looks more like a trampoline with high netting Anne.  Hoping here that he was found inside and not outside :(
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 18, 2014, 03:10:43 PM
I think the breakthrough again could have come through the mobile pings of mother's phone!

To get to Fife the mobile phone would change masts...

Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 18, 2014, 03:11:42 PM
Have just blown the image up and to be honest that looks more like a trampoline with high netting Anne.  Hoping here that he was found inside and not outside :(
Like David Hemmings..
I bet inside.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Eleanor on January 18, 2014, 03:15:17 PM
Me too.. maybe her logical reasoning was affected by this event..

Also the court case re this is due quite soon.. the bbc article reporting it dates 9th January

Difficult to say until we know what happened, which could take some time.  But even then we have no right to judge.

Okay, we all want to speculate to some extent, but surely this must be possible to do with a degree of kindness.  Or at least not in anger.
His mother must be in a terrible place at the moment, if  she is indeed responsible.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: jassi on January 18, 2014, 03:16:44 PM
I think the breakthrough again could have come through the mobile pings of mother's phone!

To get to Fife the mobile phone would change masts...

As her mother and sister both live there is would be more of a surprise if her mobile phone didn't show she had been to Fife.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 18, 2014, 03:27:34 PM
As her mother and sister both live there is would be more of a surprise if her mobile phone didn't show she had been to Fife.

But if she was pinged as being there on say Wednesday afternoon, while her kids were in school, and then on Thursday morning reported the boy missing then it would be all obvious..
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: jassi on January 18, 2014, 03:32:09 PM
But if she was pinged as being there on say Wednesday afternoon, while her kids were in school, and then on Thursday morning reported the boy missing then it would be all obvious..

Yes, if that were true, it would. We have no information. as yet,  to suppose that.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Cariad on January 18, 2014, 03:35:29 PM
But if she was pinged as being there on say Wednesday afternoon, while her kids were in school, and then on Thursday morning reported the boy missing then it would be all obvious..

I feel that his absence from nursery for the last fortnight might be significant. I have a horrid feeling that he may have been dead long before Wednesday.

As others have said, this is all speculation. We just don't know.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 18, 2014, 03:53:22 PM
I feel that his absence from nursery for the last fortnight might be significant. I have a horrid feeling that he may have been dead long before Wednesday.

As others have said, this is all speculation. We just don't know.
They say "in the garden". Perhaps buried.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 18, 2014, 04:34:13 PM
They say "in the garden". Perhaps buried.

There was lots of policemen present just next to the fence..My guess is the body was dropped over the fence..
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 04:56:09 PM
As I heard it, the body was found in the woodlands behind the garden.  And the body has been transferred to hospital in Edinburgh
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Serendipity on January 18, 2014, 05:06:26 PM
As I heard it, the body was found in the woodlands behind the garden.  And the body has been transferred to hospital in Edinburgh

Just  heard the same :( News also just said  that under Scottish Law, police have 24 hours to charge or release his mum.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 18, 2014, 05:20:42 PM
Just  heard the same :( News also just said  that under Scottish Law, police have 24 hours to charge or release his mum.

Also said they actually have only 12 hours.. 12 hours extra are not always granted..SKY saying this case might be more complicated than it looks due to the police seeking extension.

And the post mortem which is taking place now will bring more clues..

News update not expected until late tonight
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 05:21:43 PM
Just  heard the same :( News also just said  that under Scottish Law, police have 24 hours to charge or release his mum.

"police have 24 hours to charge or release his mum" from when she was detained, the BBC just said - and added that the police hope to give an update within that time
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 18, 2014, 05:26:39 PM
Have just blown the image up and to be honest that looks more like a trampoline with high netting Anne.  Hoping here that he was found inside and not outside :(

 Tramploine..accident
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Serendipity on January 18, 2014, 05:29:20 PM
Also said they actually have only 12 hours.. 12 hours extra are not always granted..SKY saying this case might be more complicated than it looks due to the police seeking extension.

And the post mortem which is taking place now will bring more clues..

News update not expected until late tonight

Ah ok thanks, BBC were not as clear in their explanation.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: jassi on January 18, 2014, 05:29:59 PM
Why bother concealing that ?
Accidents happen all the time and some result in death. Feel the  circumstances need to be a bit more suspicious than that.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Serendipity on January 18, 2014, 05:31:42 PM
"police have 24 hours to charge or release his mum" from when she was detained, the BBC just said - and added that the police hope to give an update within that time

Yes, sorry, you're right, it is from when she was detained. 
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 18, 2014, 05:33:24 PM
It can be many things.. maybe we even won't know until the court case..
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 18, 2014, 05:33:35 PM
Why bother concealing that ?
Accidents happen all the time and some result in death. Feel the  circumstances need to be a bit more suspicious than that.

 I am only speculating...but an accident combined with neglect..deja vu

I just cant see a parent deliberately killing their own child
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 18, 2014, 05:36:45 PM
Yes, sorry, you're right, it is from when she was detained.

they can almost certainly charge her with perverting the course of justice
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 05:37:25 PM
I just cant see a parent deliberately killing their own child

But for whatever reason, parents do, and more frequently than thought - most recently http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2537211/BREAKING-NEWS-Woman-dead-two-children-suspected-murder-suicide.html

But so far, in this particular case, we know very little so cannot judge
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 18, 2014, 05:37:35 PM
The back of the house where the body was found
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/72370000/jpg/_72370297_72370296.jpg)
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 18, 2014, 05:38:02 PM
Why bother concealing that ?
Accidents happen all the time and some result in death. Feel the  circumstances need to be a bit more suspicious than that.
He was sick, perhaps a serious pulmonary infection, his Mum found him dead in the morning, she might have been scared to lose her kids again and for a longer time to foster parents. Every hour  without alerting was bringing her closer to the no-return point.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Serendipity on January 18, 2014, 05:42:12 PM
Tramploine..accident

I'm trying hard not to think about what might have happened tbh, it's too upsetting. If it was an accident like falling from trampoline or similar, what reason would there be to bury the poor mite and not contact the authorities though?  I just hope that whatever did happen that it was quick and that he did not suffer :(
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 18, 2014, 05:45:26 PM
still the gang and her friend being killed by them is a really strange coincidence ...

Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 18, 2014, 06:06:47 PM
But for whatever reason, parents do, and more frequently than thought - most recently http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2537211/BREAKING-NEWS-Woman-dead-two-children-suspected-murder-suicide.html

But so far, in this particular case, we know very little so cannot judge

'A father arrived home to find his wife had killed their two young sons before apparently killing herself, police revealed yesterday.
Accountant Sakthivel Vageswaran, 36, found the bodies of five-year-old Anopan and eight-month-old Nathiban in black bin bags when he returned from work. Wife Jeyavani was also dead.
Mr Sakthivel is said to be still ‘screaming for his babies’ and will not return to the family home in Harrow, North London.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2537211/BREAKING-NEWS-Woman-dead-two-children-suspected-murder-suicide.html#ixzz2qm2ib7Qm


That is awful.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 06:11:42 PM
'A father arrived home to find his wife had killed their two young sons before apparently killing herself, police revealed yesterday.
Accountant Sakthivel Vageswaran, 36, found the bodies of five-year-old Anopan and eight-month-old Nathiban in black bin bags when he returned from work. Wife Jeyavani was also dead.
Mr Sakthivel is said to be still ‘screaming for his babies’ and will not return to the family home in Harrow, North London.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2537211/BREAKING-NEWS-Woman-dead-two-children-suspected-murder-suicide.html#ixzz2qm2ib7Qm


That is awful.

This case is more unusual, WS because it was the mother who killed her children  - not being sexist but it is usually the father (in custody disputes etc)  We read a number of those.  But this just shows that mothers can also - and there is another case at the back of my mind which I cant put my finger on at the minute!  I'll come back on it if I remember.

Actually, if you google "mother kills children" you will come up with quite a few cases
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 06:13:10 PM
Channel 4 news have just said that the mother must be charged with whatever charge it is or released by midnight tonight
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 18, 2014, 06:17:25 PM
Channel 4 news have just said that the mother must be charged with whatever charge it is or released by midnight tonight

This reminds me of Chris Jeffreys, the landlord in Joanna Yeates case.. he was also questioned for 24 hours.. but he was later released..

In this case I personally feel the mother might be charged..
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 06:20:25 PM
This reminds me of Chris Jeffreys, the landlord in Joanna Yeates case.. he was also questioned for 24 hours.. but he was later released..

In this case I personally feel the mother might be charged..

Well, hopefully it means we should know more by midnight.  Although being charged does not necessarily mean guilty, of course
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 18, 2014, 06:21:51 PM
He was sick, perhaps a serious pulmonary infection, his Mum found him dead in the morning, she might have been scared to lose her kids again and for a longer time to foster parents. Every hour  without alerting was bringing her closer to the no-return point.
ive already suggested this...natural causes with neglect
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 18, 2014, 06:24:49 PM
But for whatever reason, parents do, and more frequently than thought - most recently http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2537211/BREAKING-NEWS-Woman-dead-two-children-suspected-murder-suicide.html

But so far, in this particular case, we know very little so cannot judge

 In these cases the parents usually kill all the children...not just one...and invariably kill or try to kill themselves
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 06:25:51 PM
This the other case I was thinking of: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1200935/Mother-cut-childrens-throats-took-poison-cope-violent-marriage.html 

Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 06:27:16 PM
In these cases the parents usually kill all the children...not just one...and invariably kill or try to kill themselves

True; but if the reasons is taking against one particular child for some reason eg as in the Daniel Pelka case, it can happen to one child only
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 18, 2014, 06:36:21 PM
She obviously lied about Mikaeel's whereabouts, the not sleeping with the twin sister was a strong clue.  The autopsy will reveal the day he died which will determine the outcome of any charges against her or others.  The cost of the police exercise alone will undoubtedly be taken into account if conspiring to pervert the course of justice charges are eventually preferred.

Here is a reminder of her involvement with murdered Mohammed Abdi.

(http://www.scotsman.com/webimage/1.3272721.1389986263!/image/1636055104.jpg_gen/derivatives/articleImgDeriv_628px/1636055104.jpg)

Boys mother Rosdeep Kular with Mohammed Abdi.

THE mother of missing Mikaeel Kular lost a friend last year in an alleged shooting incident in Edinburgh’s Willowbrae area.


Rosdeep Kular, 33, posted a picture of herself with Mohammed Abdi on a social media website the day after he died in the incident last April.

Neighbours say they had seen Mr Abdi, who was 25 when he died, visit Ms Kular’s flat in the Drylaw area of the capital.

One neighbour said: “It has been a long time since I last saw him, but I have definitely seen him with the mum.

While another said: “I saw him a couple of times but more with the kids than with the mum. I’m sure that he took the little ones to nursery too.”

Mr Abdi, whose father is an Imam at the Edinburgh Central Mosque, died on April 26 last year.

Six men deny killing Mr Abdi. Mohamud Mohamud, 30, Ahmed Ahmed, 28, Cadil Huseen, 22, Hussein Ali, 26, Liban Ahmed, 29, and Said Fadal, 32, appeared at the High Court in Glasgow earlier this month.

Mr Abdi was allegedly shot with a sub-machine pistol and a revolver.

www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/mikaeel-kular-s-mother-lost-friend-in-shooting-1-3272716

Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: jassi on January 18, 2014, 06:38:45 PM
That looks a very dingy place with a low ceiling. I wonder where they were?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 18, 2014, 06:47:20 PM
It is thanks to the formerly named Fife Constabulary that this case hasn't ended up another McCann mystery.  Just imagine if the body had not been discovered.

It will be interesting to know how Mikaeel was found.  Was it sheer luck, a find by a sniffer dog, someone informed or a family member or one of the other children spoke up?   Something sent Fife police to that wooded area, the question is what?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 18, 2014, 06:51:49 PM
She obviously lied about Mikaeel's whereabouts, the not sleeping with the twin sister was a strong clue.  The autopsy will reveal the day he died which will determine the outcome of any charges against her or others.  The cost of the police exercise alone will undoubtedly be taken into account if conspiring to pervert the course of justice charges are eventually preferred.

After 3 days the determination of the time of death is difficult. The people who disposed of their beloved one's body don't realise that the police costs are enormous.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: drummer on January 18, 2014, 06:52:29 PM
Police have removed the body of a young boy from woodland as they continue to question the mother of three-year-old Mikaeel Kular.

The discovery was made near her former home in Kirkcaldy, Fife, and announced by police just after 1am.

A post-mortem examination is understood to be taking place this evening in Edinburgh.

There were gasps from people outside Police Scotland's Edinburgh HQ as Assistant Chief Constable Malcolm Graham announced the body had been found shortly before midnight.

Police said they had detained one person - understood to be Mikaeel's 33-year-old mother Rosdeep - in connection with his disappearance.


http://news.sky.com/story/1197026/mikaeel-kular-mum-detained-as-body-removed



Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Eleanor on January 18, 2014, 06:54:18 PM
It is thanks to the formerly named Fife Constabulary that this case hasn't ended up another McCann mystery.  Just imagine if the body had not been discovered.

It will be interesting to know how Mikaeel was found.  Was it sheer luck, a find by a sniffer dog, someone informed or a family member or one of the other children spoke up?   Something sent Fife police to that wooded area, the question is what?

I think she confessed  and told them what she did with the body.  And now they are deciding whether to charge her with murder or manslaughter.

Just speculating.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 18, 2014, 06:56:50 PM
It is thanks to the formerly named Fife Constabulary that this case hasn't ended up another McCann mystery. Just imagine if the body had not been discovered.

It will be interesting to know how Mikaeel was found.  Was it sheer luck, a find by a sniffer dog, someone informed or a family member or one of the other children spoke up?   Something sent Fife police to that wooded area, the question is what?
In this case the body had to be recovered for the simple reason that it was recoverable.
The trouble is when the body isn't recoverable, like after a cremation.

I wondered also what made them search in that woodland after it was dark.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 18, 2014, 06:57:01 PM
After 3 days the determination of the time of death is difficult. The people who disposed of their beloved one's body don't realise that the police costs are enormous.

If a body is discovered several hours after death the temperature of the body and the signs of rigor mortis can indicate an approximate time of death.  If a body has been found after several days the presence of certain substances within the body will indicate an approximate day of death.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 18, 2014, 06:58:40 PM
I think she confessed  and told them what she did with the body.  And now they are deciding whether to charge her with murder or manslaughter.

Just speculating.

Could be neither...could be lots of different things....was she involved with drugs..could a three year old find and swallow tablets
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 18, 2014, 06:59:04 PM
In this case the body had to be recovered for the simple reason that it was recoverable.
The trouble is when the body isn't recoverable, like after a cremation.

I wondered also what made them search in that woodland after it was dark.

Absolutely Anne, it was just before midnight when he was discovered.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: jassi on January 18, 2014, 07:02:15 PM
Has to be something potentially dodgy for there to be a cover-up.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Redblossom on January 18, 2014, 07:06:31 PM
That looks a very dingy place with a low ceiling. I wonder where they were?

Pub/club/rave?


Someone hanging on to their youth and freedom when they can get it after five kids...

Wondering if drugs had anythng to do with this whole sad story

This man was charged with drug offences but he apparently said the drugs worth 300k found at one of his flats IIRC were planted by this Somali gang...the ones who killed him and the mother must have been fairly close with him if neighbours accounts are true he used to take her kids to school

Here, found it

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/men-responsible-murdering-mohammed-abdi-1920283


Just speculation.....
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Eleanor on January 18, 2014, 07:10:41 PM
Absolutely Anne, it was just before midnight when he was discovered.

They knew where to look after dark because she told them.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: jassi on January 18, 2014, 07:12:44 PM
They knew where to look after dark because she told them.

She, or somebody else.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 18, 2014, 07:12:51 PM
Both Glasgow and Edinburgh are rife with immigrant drug dealers many of whom are illegals who have found their way up from Birmingham and London.  Seen and heard it all while I was in Edinburgh for nearly 4 years. 
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: pinkblossoms on January 18, 2014, 07:13:37 PM
How do you know she told them ? I am sure if she had they would of charged her by now  >@@(*&)
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: jassi on January 18, 2014, 07:17:06 PM
How do you know she told them ? I am sure if she had they would of charged her by now  >@@(*&)

When you charge someone, you have to stop questioning them, so maybe the police want to extend the interview as long as possible.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: pinkblossoms on January 18, 2014, 07:18:34 PM
When you charge someone, you have to stop questioning them, so maybe the police want to extend the interview as long as possible.

well im not a cop so didn't know that  8-)(--)
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Eleanor on January 18, 2014, 07:22:43 PM
How do you know she told them ? I am sure if she had they would of charged her by now  >@@(*&)

I don't know for certain, but think about it.  The body was found around midnight and it was announced that she had been detained very shortly afterwards.

They probably haven't charged her yet because she is hardly likely to admit to murder.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 18, 2014, 07:30:38 PM
They will have the autopsy results about now which will show cause of death.  Charges will undoubtedly follow.

Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 18, 2014, 08:20:18 PM
They will have the autopsy results about now which will show cause of death.  Charges will undoubtedly follow.
If he died of pneumonia, will they charge her with disposal and obstruction and let her free ?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 08:36:18 PM
Memorial service for Mikaeel, attended by hundreds: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25793509 
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/72374000/jpg/_72374804_72374802.jpg) 
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 18, 2014, 08:51:53 PM
If he died of pneumonia, will they charge her with disposal and obstruction and let her free ?

Remember Anne, this is the Procurator Fiscal in Edinburgh we are talking about who may prefer charges and my experiences of them are less than complimentary.  I have seen all too many self-confessed criminals freed because of their pathetically inadequate justice system.

Justice for little Mikaeel is the important thing!
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 18, 2014, 09:02:33 PM

Justice for little Mikaeel is the important thing!
The four remaining children of this lady are the important thing.
I mean they need their mum and as far as we know she didn't kill Mikaeel.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 18, 2014, 09:11:56 PM
The four remaining children of this lady are the important thing.
I mean they need their mum and as far as we know she didn't kill Mikaeel.

It doesn't look good for her. She tried to cover it up so that means something bad happened to Mikaeel.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 18, 2014, 09:19:38 PM
It doesn't look good for her. She tried to cover it up so that means something bad happened to Mikaeel.
She loves her kids, there's no doubt about that and Mikaeel was a happy wee kid. What if she entered in panic that the social services would take the others from her ?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 09:39:36 PM
There is not too long to wait for a bit more information.  Should we not wait and stop surmising about things we do not know?   As someone else said, Christopher Jeffries (in the Joanna Yeates case) is the classic example of presumptions being made that were wrong
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 18, 2014, 09:53:22 PM
There is not too long to wait for a bit more information.  Should we not wait and stop surmising about things we do not know?   As someone else said, Christopher Jeffries (in the Joanna Yeates case) is the classic example of presumptions being made that were wrong

Different circumstances altogether.  In this case the mother lied to police about Mikaeel's whereabouts.

He wasn't abducted, he didn't open the door and wander off.   He died as a result of some misadventure and one or more persons transported his body and hid it behind the sisters bungalow in Fife.  Have I missed anything?

A neighbour living opposite the bungalow in Kirkcaldy, Olga Park, said Kular lived at that property when she gave birth to Mikaeel and his twin sister. Park said she had seen Kular drive up to the house on either Tuesday or Wednesday morning, on her own.

(http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/1/18/283281/default/v1/forensic-guys-1-522x293.jpg)

Police forensic officers at the scene in Kirkcaldy.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/18/mikaeel-kular-mother-rosdeep-questioned-body-found
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 10:47:36 PM
You may well be right.  But Sky News have just said "we don't know anything at the moment" and I am just suggesting that it is early to surmise.

Sky News have also just said that there will be a police conference at 10.30 or so
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 18, 2014, 10:53:07 PM
It could also be that she was framed by someone but I doubt it very much.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 18, 2014, 11:04:47 PM
The mum has been charged in connection to Mikaeel's death
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Cariad on January 18, 2014, 11:08:05 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25798389
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 11:10:05 PM
The mum has been charged in connection to Mikaeel's death

But cause of death not yet known
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 18, 2014, 11:10:52 PM
charged with what
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Lyall on January 18, 2014, 11:17:26 PM
charged with what

I think the prosecutor decides In Scotland? That won't be until Monday.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 11:19:07 PM
And surely that will partly depend on the outcome of the autopsy and the cause of death
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 18, 2014, 11:22:12 PM
And surely that will partly depend on the outcome of the autopsy and the cause of death

 I don't know Scottish law but surely she must have been charged with something
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 18, 2014, 11:28:31 PM
I don't know Scottish law but surely she must have been charged with something

Yes, the police will have agreed the charge in consultation with the PF.  A holding charge for now possibly.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Lyall on January 18, 2014, 11:28:53 PM
I don't know Scottish law but surely she must have been charged with something

Me neither, but we both probably know as much as most English journalists.

Time for them to take their cameras home.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 11:29:55 PM
My understanding is no, the charge has not been detailed.  And as I said, the autopsy results are not through so they do not yet know the cause of death.  Which surely will make a difference?  If the death was by natural causes, the charge will presumably be concealing the death etc.  if the death is not by natural caused, the charges may involve actually causing the death.  But until they get the result of the autopsy they cannot know further
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Lyall on January 18, 2014, 11:39:19 PM
My understanding is no, the charge has not been detailed.  And as I said, the autopsy results are not through so they do not yet know the cause of death.  Which surely will make a difference?  If the death was by natural causes, the charge will presumably be concealing the death etc.  if the death is not by natural caused, the charges may involve actually causing the death.  But until they get the result of the autopsy they cannot know further

It will make a huge difference, CPN. There's a third possibility - they cannot establish the cause of death. Big problems ahead for the prosecutors if they can't.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 18, 2014, 11:47:22 PM
Something else which has not been considered is that it is likely that some of the other four children in the apartment might have witnessed events in which case they will be interviewed by specialists.  Maybe CPN can explain the procedure?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 11:49:22 PM
It will make a huge difference, CPN. There's a third possibility - they cannot establish the cause of death. Big problems ahead for the prosecutors if they can't.

You are right, of course that is also a possibility. But I was answering davel's point about her being charged with something and saying the actual charge may not yet be clear if the autopsy result is not through.  As you say, if the autopsy result is that the cause of death is not clear....   More news in the morning maybe
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 18, 2014, 11:53:40 PM
Something else which has not been considered is that it is likely that some of the other four children in the apartment might have witnessed events in which case they will be interviewed by specialists.  Maybe CPN can explain the procedure?

I know nothing about the Scottish procedures, but you are right, it is indeed another point to consider...   We don't know where the other children are anyway, with foster carers or eg with their grandmother or indeed with their father.  Nor do we know how all this has been explained to them - not much fun for those responsible for the children, especially Mikaeel's twin.  I hope they try to keep the children together - they will need each other
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 19, 2014, 12:04:26 AM
The children are being looked after by their aunt Pandeep Kular.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 19, 2014, 12:05:33 AM
The children are being looked after by their aunt Pandeep.

Are they?! - the one whose house was where Mikaeel was found?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 19, 2014, 12:09:31 AM
Yes.

There has been no suggestion from police that Pandeep is suspected of any involvement, and the source backed that up.

 Describing Pandeep as a “kind and gentle” woman, he said: “I just can’t believe Pandeep could be involved in something like this. It can’t be right.

(http://i.imgur.com/EhC7ffl.jpg?1)

Aunt Pandeep Kular behind whose home the body of Mikaeel was found last night.

 “She is the sort of person who is always smiling and happy and very caring towards people. She would go out of her way to cheer you up if you were feeling down, that sort of thing.

 “She has a good heart and did a lot of work for charity, most recently raising money for cancer research.

 “Until I hear differently I refuse to believe she is involved in little Mikaeel’s death.”

 Pandeep, known to friends as Pani, worked at Sky in Dunfermline as a customer services assistant in the company’s retention department.

 A co-worker who asked not to be named said her colleagues were all “devastated” to hear the news.

 “Some staff knew Pani quite well and were crying when they heard what had happened.

 “I personally haven’t seen her at work for over a week. I think it was last Thursday the last time I saw her and she seemed her usually cheerful self. She didn’t seem to be acting differently in any way.

 “She works flexi-time so she works funny hours and kind of picks and chooses when she comes in. I know she has a teenage son and also has a boyfriend but she never really talked much about them or the rest of her family.”

www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/fife/missing-mikaeel-aunt-who-lives-in-house-where-body-was-found-described-as-kind-and-gentle-woman-1.178633
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 19, 2014, 12:13:47 AM
Very interesting - thank you.  Well she is going to need a lot of support for her own sake as well as the sake of the children.  She must  be doubly distressed - for her nephew and for her sister
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 19, 2014, 12:26:34 AM
Something else which has not been considered is that it is likely that some of the other four children in the apartment might have witnessed events in which case they will be interviewed by specialists.  Maybe CPN can explain the procedure?

Or caused? And she was acting to protect her other child?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Lyall on January 19, 2014, 12:37:24 AM
Or caused? And she was acting to protect her other child?

Could be. Anything could have happened from what we know (which is nothing).
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 19, 2014, 12:47:47 AM
According to his mother, Mikaeel, who attended a nearby nursery, was sleeping alone on Wednesday evening because he was feeling unwell. His four siblings were also in the flat.

On Friday afternoon however, Ms Kular’s estranged husband Omotoso Adekoa, whom she married in 2004 but separated from five years later, told of his shock.

The 35-year-old taxi driver said: “I just heard about Mikaeel. I’ve been trying to call Rosdeep on the phone but she’s not answered.

He added, “I saw my kids at the weekend, but I didn’t see Mikaeel. He’s a lovely boy. He’s very shy. Of course I’m worried about him.”
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 19, 2014, 01:15:08 AM
So sad.. the life of these kids was actually filmed

http://instagram.com/rosieallgood

Mikaeel is only shown few times..
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: puglove on January 19, 2014, 01:16:45 AM
According to his mother, Mikaeel, who attended a nearby nursery, was sleeping alone on Wednesday evening because he was feeling unwell. His four siblings were also in the flat.

On Friday afternoon however, Ms Kular’s estranged husband Omotoso Adekoa, whom she married in 2004 but separated from five years later, told of his shock.

The 35-year-old taxi driver said: “I just heard about Mikaeel. I’ve been trying to call Rosdeep on the phone but she’s not answered.

He added, “I saw my kids at the weekend, but I didn’t see Mikaeel. He’s a lovely boy. He’s very shy. Of course I’m worried about him.”

Well, I agree with Spam. These days, you can't rehome a puppy or a kitten without at least 2 homechecks, to make sure that the little creature will be secure and safe. But (I'm waiting for the shitstorm) any dippy tart can have endless babies, and be looked after in the maternity unit, then take that baby home to any sort of shithouse and get lost in the system. Two visits from the health visitor to make sure the baby has had a bath, is still breathing, then you're on your own.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: icabodcrane on January 19, 2014, 02:14:02 AM
Well,  whatever the outcome now,  a very little  body lay on a slab today,  while a doctor did an autopsy on it

A three year old laying there ... the subject of an autopsy


unspeakable
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on January 19, 2014, 02:19:35 AM
he was ill...perhaps he died from natural causes compounded by neglect and that why his mother staged the abduction..we will see

What is the source for the suggestion that he had been ill? Was this something the mother told police?

The reality was that Mikaeel had not been seen by neighbours since Christmas. That's a huge window of time.

At the moment it looks like the mother told the nursery he was ill in order to explain his absence.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Moderator on January 19, 2014, 02:31:37 AM
What is the source for the suggestion that he had been ill? Was this something the mother told police?

The reality was that Mikaeel had not been seen by neighbours since Christmas. That's a huge window of time.

At the moment it looks like the mother told the nursery he was ill in order to explain his absence.

It came from the mother and the father of the three older children Mr Adekoa observed that Mikaeel wasn't there at the weekend when he visited.  Could he have died as far back as Xmas/New Year and her excuses had effectively run out.

Was this another copycat case?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: pegasus on January 19, 2014, 03:18:32 AM
Just wondering why in some cases does a concealor choose a location which is geographically linkable to them?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on January 19, 2014, 03:37:56 AM
Just wondering why in some cases does a concealor choose a location which is geographically linkable to them?

It's an interesting question, isn't it.

It frequently occurs that someone who has killed disposes the body in order that it is easily findable. Much is written on this.

I did once read that often a person who has killed a relative or someone to whom they were close, buries or hides them in a place significant in their relationship, as an expression of the bond they share. The expression of that bond, whether emotional or symbolic in a given case, is understood to be so important that it supersedes concerns of discovery.

Of course we don't yet know exactly what has happened here, but it is certainly no surprise that he was found where he was. My feeling so far is that police found him according to their own searches and not any hints. The property after all was a place where the family used to live, so it would have to have been searched.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Moderator on January 19, 2014, 04:13:03 AM
It's an interesting question, isn't it.

It frequently occurs that someone who has killed disposes the body in order that it is easily findable. Much is written on this.

I did once read that often a person who has killed a relative or someone to whom they were close, buries or hides them in a place significant in their relationship, as an expression of the bond they share. The expression of that bond, whether emotional or symbolic in a given case, is understood to be so important that it supersedes concerns of discovery.

Of course we don't yet know exactly what has happened here, but it is certainly no surprise that he was found where he was. My feeling so far is that police found him according to their own searches and not any hints. The property after all was a place where the family used to live, so it would have to have been searched.

But they didnt find him within the property boundary but in a wooded area nearby.  I dont believe the police would have searched that particular area and especially at midnight unless they got a tip-off of some sort.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Eleanor on January 19, 2014, 05:07:05 AM
But they didnt find him within the property boundary but in a wooded area nearby.  I dont believe the police would have searched that particular area and especially at midnight unless they got a tip-off of some sort.

I agree.  And I doubt they would have immediately raced off to detain his mother, unless she told them where to look.
No one else has been detained, so apparently no accomplice.

Not that any of this matters at the moment, other than conscience, which can only be a good thing.

I am still hoping that it was an accident.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: colombosstogey on January 19, 2014, 06:52:03 AM
I sometimes think that way yes & it's horrible things like people that tend to make me think that way.

How can there be a God when so much bad sh8t happens like neglect & deaths of little children.

If God made everything then he made cancer, what sort of evil bast8rd does that?

How many humans live on this planet? You need to put these figures into perspective.....although i know sometimes its hard.

I have to find something positive every day to make me WANT to get up and go through my day, and I always find something, even if its just seeing the birds outside eating out of bird containers, it reminds me of how wonderful nature is.....

Sadly there is always going to be horrible things to read about.

Thousands of jews gassed to death, whole tribes of people died because of genocide, its been going on since humans evolved sadly, people killing for revenge, greed, so on and so forth.

I am not going to say much about this death, as we dont know what happened. The women even with 5 children seems to have had a lot of support. Her mother is a GP and I believe works in the town where the child was found. The family do not look poor.

The father was not on the birth certificate he is from Pakistan.

What could have happened to cover up a death of a 3 year old?

An accident, why cover it up.

An unlawful killing for me is the only reason why she would do that. So what happened for her to do that.

There are tons of neglected children in this country. I used to work in the community and would find 2 year olds outside half clothed....in the winter.

The problem in this country is there are now TOO many people living in it, and not enough medical clinics, or social services to deal with all the stuff that is wrong.

All I know is, a young boy of 3 has now died, and his sibling who was close to him is going to be in a terrible state now.

IF the social service had taken the twins away last year, it does show a pattern of something going on.

Now we wait. There is nothing else much we can do.

RIP little Mikaeel Kular.xxx
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: colombosstogey on January 19, 2014, 06:56:35 AM
Pub/club/rave?


Someone hanging on to their youth and freedom when they can get it after five kids...

Wondering if drugs had anythng to do with this whole sad story

This man was charged with drug offences but he apparently said the drugs worth 300k found at one of his flats IIRC were planted by this Somali gang...the ones who killed him and the mother must have been fairly close with him if neighbours accounts are true he used to take her kids to school

Here, found it

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/men-responsible-murdering-mohammed-abdi-1920283


Just speculation.....

Drugs went through my head too sadly.......
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Eleanor on January 19, 2014, 07:12:26 AM

I did mean an accident in temper or under stress.  Something went badly wrong.  Otherwise there would have been no need to hide his body.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 19, 2014, 10:53:30 AM
How many humans live on this planet? You need to put these figures into perspective.....although i know sometimes its hard.

I have to find something positive every day to make me WANT to get up and go through my day, and I always find something, even if its just seeing the birds outside eating out of bird containers, it reminds me of how wonderful nature is.....

Sadly there is always going to be horrible things to read about.

Thousands of jews gassed to death, whole tribes of people died because of genocide, its been going on since humans evolved sadly, people killing for revenge, greed, so on and so forth.

I am not going to say much about this death, as we dont know what happened. The women even with 5 children seems to have had a lot of support. Her mother is a GP and I believe works in the town where the child was found. The family do not look poor.

The father was not on the birth certificate he is from Pakistan.

What could have happened to cover up a death of a 3 year old?

An accident, why cover it up.

An unlawful killing for me is the only reason why she would do that. So what happened for her to do that.

There are tons of neglected children in this country. I used to work in the community and would find 2 year olds outside half clothed....in the winter.

The problem in this country is there are now TOO many people living in it, and not enough medical clinics, or social services to deal with all the stuff that is wrong.

All I know is, a young boy of 3 has now died, and his sibling who was close to him is going to be in a terrible state now.

IF the social service had taken the twins away last year, it does show a pattern of something going on.

Now we wait. There is nothing else much we can do.

RIP little Mikaeel Kular.xxx

Yes, your right. There are some good people on the planet, like the 100's of people who went out to look for him.

Overpopulation is a problem & peoples lack of responsibility, it shouldn't be up to social services to wipe the backside of every baby born in Britain.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: a.baker on January 19, 2014, 11:12:53 AM
The Police say they spoke to Mikaeel's biological father earlier in the week,but where is he? His baby son was missing and now sadly found dead and yet he hasn't shown his face once or commented. Does he not care? As he hasn't been named (or seen) am wondering if he is maybe a well known public figure that Ms Kular had an affair with? He was also said to be overjoyed about the twins birth and yet his name does not appear on the birth certificate. All very odd,or perhaps I am too overly suspicious!
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 19, 2014, 11:14:33 AM
I posted her instagram page earlier.. the kids looked neat clean, well fed and happy.. And there are many photos of them! On the day she said Mikaeel was gone she posted a very strange note..


http://instagram.com/rosieallgood

For some reason she put the other kids photo more than Mikaeel's..
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: a.baker on January 19, 2014, 11:28:46 AM
Yes,I too noticed that there were more photos of her older three children than of the twins. And also,there are photos of her cuddling each child individually,apart from Mikaeel.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: colombosstogey on January 19, 2014, 11:37:06 AM
I posted her instagram page earlier.. the kids looked neat clean, well fed and happy.. And there are many photos of them! On the day she said Mikaeel was gone she posted a very strange note..


http://instagram.com/rosieallgood

For some reason she put the other kids photo more than Mikaeel's..

Its really sad, i would think the police should have this removed surely. Its full of vile comments.

The photo of him with his sister is so sweet, you can hardly imagine that a few weeks later he was dead.

The family just look a normal loving family, with pets, the house is clean and they are certainly not poor or neglected.

What I do find odd is why leave his body close to a home she has lived in. Its almost like she wanted him found. It was obvious the police would check it. I dont get how the sister was living there either. She seems a lovely girl, not involved according to what is on the news, but works split shifts. So perhaps her sister took him there when she was working. What a SHOCK though to find your sister had dumped her nephew in the woods behind her house....how do you actually cope with that.....

Anyway we need to just sit and wait and find out what happened now.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Cariad on January 19, 2014, 11:43:09 AM
Its really sad, i would think the police should have this removed surely. Its full of vile comments.

The photo of him with his sister is so sweet, you can hardly imagine that a few weeks later he was dead.

The family just look a normal loving family, with pets, the house is clean and they are certainly not poor or neglected.

We need to just sit and wait and find out what happened now.

Seconded. I was appalled at some of the comments.

Whatever happened, this isn't a Casey Anthony, this isn't someone who murdered her own child to go out and party.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Eleanor on January 19, 2014, 11:47:55 AM
Seconded. I was appalled at some of the comments.

Whatever happened, this isn't a Casey Anthony, this isn't someone who murdered her own child to go out and party.

Casey Anthony was Acquitted.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: lizzibif on January 19, 2014, 11:48:34 AM
I posted her instagram page earlier.. the kids looked neat clean, well fed and happy.. And there are many photos of them! On the day she said Mikaeel was gone she posted a very strange note..


http://instagram.com/rosieallgood

For some reason she put the other kids photo more than Mikaeel's..


Imo I don't think this should be posted on here..in respect for the boys family..the police should get this removed from instagram ASAP..just saying..
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: colombosstogey on January 19, 2014, 11:56:08 AM
Seconded. I was appalled at some of the comments.

Whatever happened, this isn't a Casey Anthony, this isn't someone who murdered her own child to go out and party.

It broke my heart. They just look to me a normal happy family. Something horrible happened.....we will find out. I just dont think it serves anyone to show this site its quite morbid...also there could be some clues in there about her mental state...who knows....
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 19, 2014, 12:05:19 PM
Sky news have just confirmed that it is not known what the charges will be that Mikaeel's mother will face it court tomorrow.   It was also stated that it is not known where the other children are
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 19, 2014, 12:05:42 PM
I don't think the instagram site should be removed.. It shows the other side of the coin.. i.e how the family lived and how this woman was actually a loving mother of FIVE children..


What happened later we don't know and we should wait for the police to tell..


She was not charged with murder, she was charged 'in connection with killing' .. my guess is that her other child harmed the youngest one.. and she panicked..
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 19, 2014, 12:11:29 PM
Casey Anthony was Acquitted.

So was the juice, but lets face it, they did it didn't they.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 19, 2014, 12:14:04 PM
I don't think the instagram site should be removed.. It shows the other side of the coin.. i.e how the family lived and how this woman was actually a loving mother of FIVE children..

What happened later we don't know and we should wait for the police to tell..

She was not charged with murder, she was charged 'in connection with killing' .. my guess is that her other child harmed the youngest one.. and she panicked..

Agreed, VIXTE, as said time and again, we don't know.   There are many possibilities as to what happened, and judging before we know is dangerous.  It is not as if we have to wait long for more info! - although it depends how much is said in court I suppose.  But at least the charge will have to be made clear, I assume
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Eleanor on January 19, 2014, 12:19:17 PM
So was the juice, but lets face it, they did it didn't they.

According to Public Opinion.  But I don't pay any attention to that.  And nor does The Law.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 19, 2014, 12:21:33 PM
Agreed, VIXTE, as said time and again, we don't know.   There are many possibilities as to what happened, and judging before we know is dangerous.  It is not as if we have to wait long for more info! - although it depends how much is said in court I suppose.  But at least the charge will have to be made clear, I assume

The only things I have judged her on thus far are parental ability & lying to the police.

Parental ability:  No matter how happy & healthy those kids might look in photos, 1 of them is now deceased.
Negative score for parenting.

Lying to police: She said she put him to bed alive at 9pm, but he was found several miles away not sleeping.
Negative score for lying to the police.

That's it, nothing more.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 19, 2014, 12:22:13 PM
According to Public Opinion.  But I don't pay any attention to that.  And nor does The Law.

You just did.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 19, 2014, 12:27:52 PM
It seems strange that this mother, who we know is criminally involved, perverting the course of justice at least, gets far  more respect on this forum than the McCanns
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 19, 2014, 12:30:03 PM
 In the ongoing case in Scotland the mother managed to keep the abduction pretence going for two dayst
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Cariad on January 19, 2014, 12:30:11 PM
According to Public Opinion.  But I don't pay any attention to that.  And nor does The Law.

I did write out a long post to your original reply that Casey Anthony was acquitted, but I deleted it as it was off topic. The gist was that yes she was acquitted but even the jury who acquitted her believed her guilty, they just didn't have enough evidence to convict.

I've read both the book written by the defence and prosecution lawyers, I'd bet my house that she did it.

I probably shouldn't have used her name, however.

The point I wanted to make was that this is different.

We know nothing as of yet anyway. I think I'll shut up now....
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 19, 2014, 12:30:24 PM
The only things I have judged her on thus far are parental ability & lying to the police.

Parental ability:  No matter how happy & healthy those kids might look in photos, 1 of them is now deceased.
Negative score for parenting.

Lying to police: She said she put him to bed alive at 9pm, but he was found several miles away not sleeping.
Negative score for lying to the police.

That's it, nothing more.

Well, as I said, we don't know what happened and we don't have enough info yet.

She hasn't asked for help, that is for sure.. but why? Why she hasn't called the emergency that is to be answered.

A normal human being with a functioning brain would call for help.. Why she wasn't acting as a normal human being that is the question to be answered.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Cariad on January 19, 2014, 12:32:23 PM
In the ongoing case in Scotland the mother managed to keep the abduction pretence going for two days

Yes. I wonder how long she would've managed if the body hadn't been recovered?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 19, 2014, 12:35:41 PM
It seems strange that this mother, who we know is criminally involved, perverting the course of justice at least, gets far  more respect on this forum than the McCanns

I would not call it respect for the mother, it is respect for the fact that we do not know what happened, or her version of whatever it is that happened.  It will be easier to make judgements on that tomorrow, perhaps.   In the case of the McCanns, we do know their version, and they are judged on that.   
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 19, 2014, 12:36:03 PM
Well, as I said, we don't know what happened and we don't have enough info yet.

She hasn't asked for help, that is for sure.. but why? Why she hasn't called the emergency that is to be answered.

A normal human being with a functioning brain would call for help.. Why she wasn't acting as a normal human being that is the question to be answered.

'Why she hasn't called the emergency that is to be answered.

A normal human being with a functioning brain would call for help.. '


No, its best to leave it about 45mins in 'abduction' cases.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Eleanor on January 19, 2014, 12:51:58 PM
They didn't find that child's body in the middle of the night without help from someone, probably his mother herself.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 19, 2014, 12:54:02 PM
...... Public Opinion is a dangerous thing because it rarely sticks to truth and facts.  Already mistakes are appearing about this case, albeit inconsequential at the moment.

And that is why incomplete and unofficial information is so dangerous
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 19, 2014, 01:05:13 PM
It seems strange that this mother, who we know is criminally involved, perverting the course of justice at least, gets far  more respect on this forum than the McCanns

Respect ???

Meanwhile davel, you will be pleased to here, as will ferryman, dogs are now being used in the forensic searches around the Aunt's residence.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Estuarine on January 19, 2014, 01:15:25 PM
'Why she hasn't called the emergency that is to be answered.

A normal human being with a functioning brain would call for help.. '



No, its best to leave it about 45mins in 'abduction' cases.
Some people are plumbed and wired up differently from others. If one starts to accept that some are inherently evil..........
How many times have you read in reports on spying, terrorist activities, cases like this and other nefarious goings on a never ending procession of neighbours saying "gosh and they seemed so nice and played with our kids and fed the cat when we were away".
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Eleanor on January 19, 2014, 01:16:27 PM
But you knew it was either CA or her father (or both), right?

If you are really interested in my opinion then I think it was an accident involving a member of the family, although I wouldn't want to guess at who.
But that is the point.  The Prosecution charged her with murder and then singularly failed to prove it.

Scotland has a "Not Proven" Verdict, so they need to be a teensy bit careful about the charge.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Lyall on January 19, 2014, 01:37:51 PM
If you are really interested in my opinion then I think it was an accident involving a member of the family, although I wouldn't want to guess at who.
But that is the point.  The Prosecution charged her with murder and then singularly failed to prove it.

Scotland has a "Not Proven" Verdict, so they need to be a teensy bit careful about the charge.

There was also the option of manslaughter, which is what they should have gone for.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 19, 2014, 01:39:10 PM
You didn't watch the trial, did you.

No, I read enough to know the bi*ch lied, that was enough for me.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Eleanor on January 19, 2014, 01:42:17 PM
There was also the option of manslaughter, which is what they should have gone for.

Manslaughter by whom?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Lyall on January 19, 2014, 01:48:28 PM
Manslaughter by whom?

Casey. There are plenty of trials where juries don't have the smoking gun, but they use their common sense.

Casey Anthony wouldn't have been acquitted if the state hadn't gone for the death penalty.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 19, 2014, 02:04:50 PM
Sky News:  "We still don't know how Mikaeel died or where he died..... We still don't know the charges against his mother.  All should become clearer tomorrow"
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 19, 2014, 02:09:50 PM

Whatever happened, this isn't a Casey Anthony, this isn't someone who murdered her own child to go out and party.
Are you sure of that, Cariad ? I think she partied in an attempt of distraction, since her child had (accidentally) died.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Cariad on January 19, 2014, 02:22:49 PM
Are you sure of that, Cariad ? I think she partied in an attempt of distraction, since her child had (accidentally) died.

I'm not sure of anything Anne.

Is it even possible to get a fair trial in a case like this where public feelings are running so high?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 19, 2014, 02:45:25 PM
However, many people believe the McCanns are involved in a much more elaborate deception in the way they have behaved since 2007 and without a body have simply got away with it, which could explain the extra depth of feeling towards them?
I'm not amazed by the absence of trial by public here, what amazes me is the total rejection, in the McCann case, of hypotheses formulated here like "mother's attempt to protect the child responsible for the accident".
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Eleanor on January 19, 2014, 02:56:46 PM
I'm not amazed by the absence of trial by public here, what amazes me is the total rejection, in the McCann case, of hypotheses formulated here like "mother's attempt to protect the child responsible for the accident".

Ah well,  The Scottish Police aren't leaking like a sieve, while The PJ were producing enough hypotheses to satisfy anyone.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Carana on January 19, 2014, 03:05:46 PM
For the moment, all the public knows is that, tragically, the little boy won't be coming home and the mother has been charged on an unspecified connection with the death.

On the Internet, I've seen comments typical of a lynchmob mentality, others simply sad, bewildered and impatient for answers, and yet others urging for calm. 

Whatever has happened, there is a grieving family including several children: siblings and cousins (and their friends).

I found the instagram page quite touching, but the knee-jerk comments cruel.

Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 19, 2014, 03:08:53 PM
I'm not amazed by the absence of trial by public here, what amazes me is the total rejection, in the McCann case, of hypotheses formulated here like "mother's attempt to protect the child responsible for the accident".

I wonder if anyone here who initially believed what this mother had claimed about the circumstances of their child's disappearance, would now view the claims from other parents of a missing child with at least some degree of scepticism.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 19, 2014, 03:11:29 PM
I wonder if anyone here who initially believed what this mother had claimed about the circumstances of their child's disappearance, would now view the claims from other parents of a missing child with at least some degree of scepticism.

I wonder if this was even the case, why this fact would be so interesting or even pleasing for you?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 19, 2014, 03:17:46 PM
I wonder if this was even the case, why this fact would be so interesting or even pleasing for you?

Who mentioned pleasure?

In terms of interest it would be, since their are many here who take the word of Kate & Gerry as gospel & they are the last to see their daughter alive apparently & indeed put her to bed (not sure which one of them, neither were they, couldn't remember if she was in the bed or on it).

Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 19, 2014, 03:19:58 PM
We are just about relevant to topic here.... I think, these are 2 mothers who have both lied about their child's disappearance, both children being found dead in woodland near their home or a relatives.
What if they had disposed of the body in a radical way ?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: jassi on January 19, 2014, 03:27:44 PM
What if they had disposed of the body in a radical way ?

Rather more tricky - case can drag on for years.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Candi on January 19, 2014, 03:50:22 PM
This is just heartbreaking.. Looking at these photo's  http://instagram.com/rosieallgood  the impression I get is she adores her children, I'm finding it hard to see her as a murderer or a person that would harm her children..  I think an accident may have happened and she was trying to protect her other children  8(8-))   I guess we'll have to wait to hear the outcome.. Very sad.. 8(8-))
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Lyall on January 19, 2014, 04:11:32 PM
This is just heartbreaking.. Looking at these photo's  http://instagram.com/rosieallgood  the impression I get is she adores her children, I'm finding it hard to see her as a murderer or a person that would harm her children..  I think an accident may have happened and she was trying to protect her other children  8(8-))   I guess we'll have to wait to hear the outcome.. Very sad.. 8(8-))

When it says 71 posts does that mean the pictures? Or 71 text posts? I don't know that site at all.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Eleanor on January 19, 2014, 04:16:01 PM

What ever happened to Innocent when Acquitted?    Why bother with a Trial at all?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Redblossom on January 19, 2014, 04:16:06 PM
Liars would have to reconsider lying if people laughed and mocked them.

Not if its your own child..Im assuming you are talking about the parents?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Cariad on January 19, 2014, 04:20:25 PM
What ever happened to Innocent when Acquitted?    Why bother with a Trial at all?

Ask OJ Simpson.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 19, 2014, 04:26:30 PM
Not if its your own child..Im assuming you are talking about the parents?
No Redblossom, I'm talking in general.. Liars are many, it's rarely a good idea to believe them.
Sometimes you're not sure and you better believe because it's awful to be doubted when you say the truth.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Redblossom on January 19, 2014, 04:29:46 PM
No Redblossom, I'm talking in general.. Liars are many, it's rarely a good idea to believe them.
Sometimes you're not sure and you better believe because it's awful to be doubted when you say the truth.

OH OK thanks....well some liars are so transparent, its better not to believe! Otherwise you would be allowing them to make a mockery of so much!


 @)(++(*
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Estuarine on January 19, 2014, 04:30:44 PM
What ever happened to Innocent when Acquitted?    Why bother with a Trial at all?

If you recall there was a time when "Tone's" Government wanted to introduce a bill which loosely speaking would have granted powers to arrest someone because they looked as though they were going to do something iffy.Fortunately it was given the bums rush.Mercy!
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Candi on January 19, 2014, 04:31:24 PM
When it says 71 posts does that mean the pictures? Or 71 text posts? I don't know that site at all.
  I presume it's pictures Lyall, not sure..  i believe it is a site for uploading and sharing pictures.. x
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Eleanor on January 19, 2014, 04:32:12 PM
So can I take it that the consensus of opinion is that Acquittal doesn't mean Innocent?

Let's hope you all don't have to deal with "Not Proven".  That would be a laugh and a half.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 19, 2014, 04:37:14 PM
If you recall there was a time when "Tone's" Government wanted to introduce a bill which loosely speaking would have granted powers to arrest someone because they looked as though they were going to do something iffy.Fortunately it was given the bums rush.Mercy!
Minority Report.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Lyall on January 19, 2014, 04:37:46 PM
  I presume it's pictures Lyall, not sure..  i believe it is a site for uploading and sharing pictures.. x

Thanks Candi.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: jassi on January 19, 2014, 04:44:15 PM
So can I take it that the consensus of opinion is that Acquittal doesn't mean Innocent?

Let's hope you all don't have to deal with "Not Proven".  That would be a laugh and a half.

'Not proven' is actually quite straightforward as it is stating that while there is not enough evidence to convict, neither is there enough to bring in a verdict of 'Not Guilty'
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 19, 2014, 04:59:02 PM
In the ongoing case in Scotland the mother managed to keep the abduction pretence going for two days
To my knowledge she didn't pretend he had been abducted. He was missing, with his boots on.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Eleanor on January 19, 2014, 05:00:30 PM
'Not proven' is actually quite straightforward as it is stating that while there is not enough evidence to convict, neither is there enough to bring in a verdict of 'Not Guilty'

Really?  Thank you for the English lesson.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: jassi on January 19, 2014, 05:03:12 PM
Thats OK. Scottish law is much more straightforward than English law and has much to recommend it.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Lyall on January 19, 2014, 05:06:13 PM
Why Interesting?  It sounds quite straight forward to me.

"Insufficient evidence" >@@(*&)
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Eleanor on January 19, 2014, 05:07:31 PM
"Insufficient evidence" >@@(*&)

So you think he is guilty, do you?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Redblossom on January 19, 2014, 05:26:57 PM
jury verdicts are no guarantee of any truth "as a given"

!

History is littered with examples......

Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Estuarine on January 19, 2014, 05:48:57 PM
"Innocent" and "Guilty" are absolutes. Either you is or you ain't. In this country it is incumbent on the prosecution to prove the defendant guilty. The defendant doesn't have to prove anything. If the CPS don't have enough evidence to bring a case with a reasonable chance of a conviction they probably will not.
An old East End gangster who became a minor celebrity on the chat circuit in his later life was often asked "Did you kill **** ?" the answer never varied "I was found not guilty of that charge".
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 19, 2014, 05:50:48 PM

An old East End gangster who became a minor celebrity on the chat circuit in his later life was often asked "Did you kill **** ?" the answer never varied "I was found not guilty of that charge".
Lovely  ?{)(**
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Moderator on January 19, 2014, 06:14:16 PM
How many humans live on this planet? You need to put these figures into perspective.....although i know sometimes its hard.

I have to find something positive every day to make me WANT to get up and go through my day, and I always find something, even if its just seeing the birds outside eating out of bird containers, it reminds me of how wonderful nature is.....

Sadly there is always going to be horrible things to read about.

Thousands of jews gassed to death, whole tribes of people died because of genocide, its been going on since humans evolved sadly, people killing for revenge, greed, so on and so forth.

I am not going to say much about this death, as we dont know what happened. The women even with 5 children seems to have had a lot of support. Her mother is a GP and I believe works in the town where the child was found. The family do not look poor.

The father was not on the birth certificate he is from Pakistan.

What could have happened to cover up a death of a 3 year old?

An accident, why cover it up.

An unlawful killing for me is the only reason why she would do that. So what happened for her to do that.

There are tons of neglected children in this country. I used to work in the community and would find 2 year olds outside half clothed....in the winter.

The problem in this country is there are now TOO many people living in it, and not enough medical clinics, or social services to deal with all the stuff that is wrong.

All I know is, a young boy of 3 has now died, and his sibling who was close to him is going to be in a terrible state now.

IF the social service had taken the twins away last year, it does show a pattern of something going on.

Now we wait. There is nothing else much we can do.

RIP little Mikaeel Kular.xxx

Great post colombo   8((()*/
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on January 19, 2014, 06:26:38 PM
It seems strange that this mother, who we know is criminally involved, perverting the course of justice at least, gets far  more respect on this forum than the McCanns

...so far.

Wait til you see the mob ouside the Sheriff Court tomorrow...
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Redblossom on January 19, 2014, 06:37:21 PM
...so far.

Wait til you see the mob ouside the Sheriff Court tomorrow...

She is being hung drawn and quartered on the official FB page....which is different from a day or two ago when all negative comments and speculation were deleted..I dont know who admin is for that page....but either they arent there or leaving them...

Being arrested and charged in connection with the death seems to have done it....Im waiting for tomorrow to read the facts




Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 19, 2014, 06:39:06 PM
I wonder when her phone pings were caught on the bridge to Fife
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on January 19, 2014, 06:40:22 PM
The Police say they spoke to Mikaeel's biological father earlier in the week,but where is he? His baby son was missing and now sadly found dead and yet he hasn't shown his face once or commented. Does he not care? As he hasn't been named (or seen) am wondering if he is maybe a well known public figure that Ms Kular had an affair with? He was also said to be overjoyed about the twins birth and yet his name does not appear on the birth certificate. All very odd,or perhaps I am too overly suspicious!

It's a good point, amanda. And a very warm welcome here.

Why is the finger of blame being pointed solely on the mother and not the father, who is equally responsible for the child's welfare whether he is living in the same property or not?

Having said that there is a lot going on behind the scenes here we don't yet know. Perhaps the mother tried to prevent him from seeing the children - who knows.

Regarding the reporting of names and events, this is strictly governed in Scottish Law.

It is actually illegal, as far as I understand it, to print the name or publish the photograph in a newspaper of someone charged or involved in a serious crime for which court proceedings are pending.

The English press have often been sued for covering Scottish cases in too much detail - and will (or should!) be consulting their lawyers on this one.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/UK_media_apparently_conflict_with_Scots_law_in_Mikaeel_Kular_case
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 19, 2014, 06:41:09 PM
Erased since Mod removed the original post concerning the effect of information on the public opinion, but of course not particularly in the Kular case.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Kazcutt on January 19, 2014, 07:01:19 PM
I think her lad took her drugs
Don't think she killed him on purpose
Was thinking of herself no doubt
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Moderator on January 19, 2014, 07:02:49 PM
Please keep to topic as off topic posts will continue to be removed.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 19, 2014, 07:31:42 PM
Please keep to topic as off topic posts will continue to be removed.

isn't it acceptable to draw comparisons with the McCann case...this is the Madeleine McCann forum..if not surely this whole thread is off topic
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: VIXTE on January 19, 2014, 07:35:58 PM
I personally don't like post where this case is compared with Madeleine's case.

There is no similarity in it. Different plot, different geographical environment, different time of the year, different background of the family.. not a single similar point
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Moderator on January 19, 2014, 07:42:19 PM
isn't it acceptable to draw comparisons with the McCann case...this is the Madeleine McCann forum..if not surely this whole thread is off topic

Davel.  This thread relates to the discovery of Mikaeel Kular's body in Kirkcaldy, the arrest and charging of his mother and her appearance at Edinburgh Sheriff Court tomorrow.

If you wish to draw some parallels with the Maddie case please start a new thread.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on January 19, 2014, 08:00:26 PM
Yes. I wonder how long she would've managed if the body hadn't been recovered?

Even if the body hadn't been discovered so quickly, she still had already alerted police to the situation. In doing so, she knew there was a chance they would discover the body quickly.

Whether they would have or not, she must have reached her limit in whatever pretense she was carrying out. She must have had an idea the police would conduct a search, and that the public would be involved, both via the media and in physically assisting the search.

What a thing to bring on yourself - one would have to have reached the point of desperation to do that.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: lizzibif on January 19, 2014, 08:01:08 PM
UK media apparently conflict with Scots law in Mikaeel Kular case

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/UK_media_apparently_conflict_with_Scots_law_in_Mikaeel_Kular_case

too long a read to post whole story..

Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 19, 2014, 08:13:33 PM
UK media apparently conflict with Scots law in Mikaeel Kular case

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/UK_media_apparently_conflict_with_Scots_law_in_Mikaeel_Kular_case

too long a read to post whole story..

But very interesting, lizzibif and well worth reading
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: lizzibif on January 19, 2014, 08:17:34 PM
But very interesting, lizzibif and well worth reading

yes I thought so too CPN..
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 19, 2014, 08:19:14 PM
yes I thought so too CPN..

I've transferred the URL over to the Amazon forum - hope you don't mind
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 19, 2014, 08:20:54 PM
It also backs up, in a way, what I have repeatedly said - that we should be careful what we post and the judgements we make until at least the appearance in court has taken place
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: lizzibif on January 19, 2014, 08:28:27 PM
This is why we shouldn't judge till the facts are known..i prefer to wait for the facts..a little Patience goes along way..
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Cariad on January 19, 2014, 08:33:10 PM
UK media apparently conflict with Scots law in Mikaeel Kular case

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/UK_media_apparently_conflict_with_Scots_law_in_Mikaeel_Kular_case

too long a read to post whole story..

Excellent article and very valid points.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 19, 2014, 08:38:39 PM
This is why we shouldn't judge till the facts are known..i prefer to wait for the facts..a little Patience goes along way..

Indeed - and it is not as if it is a long time to wait!
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 19, 2014, 08:39:13 PM
Don't be expecting anything significant from tomorrows court hearing.  She will appear before a Sheriff just long enough to plead to the charges.  Depending on her response she will then be remanded in custody pending a trial or a  sentencing hearing.  The Sheriff may refer the case to the High Court if the charge is serious enough.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 19, 2014, 08:40:12 PM
Excellent article and very valid points.

Indeed.  We should say thanks to lizzibif for finding that I think!
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: CPN on January 19, 2014, 08:41:23 PM
Don't be expecting anything significant from tomorrows court hearing.  She will appear before a Sheriff just long enough to plead to the charges.  Depending on her response she will then be remanded in custody pending a trial or a  sentencing hearing.  The Sheriff may refer the case to the High Court if the charge is serious enough.

But it may make the actual charges against her clearer
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 19, 2014, 08:45:54 PM
But it may make the actual charges against her clearer

It will certainly but they can change at any time if she does a deal.  What we might learn from sources is whether he died from an accident or was murdered and whether he has been dead days or weeks.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: lizzibif on January 19, 2014, 08:46:49 PM
Indeed.  We should say thanks to lizzibif for finding that I think!

I cant take all the credit I acquired it from a good source..
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 19, 2014, 09:55:10 PM
UK media apparently conflict with Scots law in Mikaeel Kular case

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/UK_media_apparently_conflict_with_Scots_law_in_Mikaeel_Kular_case

too long a read to post whole story..
Thanks for posting that. Let's hope it will at least be a precedent. According to what I read here, unacceptable comments were posted on Mikaeel's mother's page, as a result of divulging her name.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 19, 2014, 09:58:37 PM

I like the 'not proven'option in Scottish law. I don't really know any more of it than that. I also think that withholding the name of individuals arrested is a good thing.

Edit: Could the release of the arrested persons name cause a mis trial?
Even the surname of the little boy shouldn't have been mentioned. The presumption of innocence starts here.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: John on January 19, 2014, 10:17:50 PM
Thank you for bringing it here though!

I like the 'not proven'option in Scottish law. I don't really know any more of it than that. I also think that withholding the name of individuals arrested is a good thing.


Edit: Could the release of the arrested persons name cause a mis trial?

It was Sky News who named the arrested woman as the mother.  Since the mothers name has been all over the news because of a situation of her own making then it is not unreasonable to use it.  By tomorrow morning it will be all academic in any event.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 19, 2014, 11:09:46 PM
Even the surname of the little boy shouldn't have been mentioned. The presumption of innocence starts here.

yes Anne I  agree..presumption of innocence is very important....I dont think anyone has to prove their innocence in Scotland..its the other way round
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: lizzibif on January 19, 2014, 11:10:25 PM
BBC Scotland

 Mikaeel Kular: Two men arrested over racist tweets
 Mikaeel Kular The racist tweets related to the disappearance of Mikaeel Kular

 Offensive Mikaeel tweet investigated

 Two men have been arrested after racist comments about the disappearance of three-year-old Mikaeel Kular were posted on Twitter.

 Police said the men, aged 19 and 26, had been arrested, questioned and released on bail.

 The tweets were brought to the attention of Police Scotland by members of the public in Edinburgh.

 Police Scotland officers liaised with Hampshire and Derbyshire forces to identify the suspects.

 On Saturday, Police Scotland said they were investigating another offensive tweet relating to the case which had originated in the Manchester area.

 Ch Supt Mark Williams, Police Scotland's divisional commander for Edinburgh, said: "Any reports of racist, offensive or abusive comments made online will be thoroughly investigated and those responsible will be brought to justice.

 "If you commit an offence, we will investigate it and you will be prosecuted"


Rightly so..
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 20, 2014, 01:06:35 AM
It was Sky News who named the arrested woman as the mother.  Since the mothers name has been all over the news because of a situation of her own making then it is not unreasonable to use it.  By tomorrow morning it will be all academic in any event.
What do you mean, John ? She didn't ask to be named. What interest is there in naming the protagonists of a drama ?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Angelo222 on January 20, 2014, 01:48:06 AM
What do you mean, John ? She didn't ask to be named. What interest is there in naming the protagonists of a drama ?

By that reasoning the McCanns shouldn't have been named either or the Ciprianos or the Needhams but there you go...one law for one and... 
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 20, 2014, 02:07:10 AM
By that reasoning the McCanns shouldn't have been named either or the Ciprianos or the Needhams but there you go...one law for one and...
What "reasoning" are you talking about, Angelo ? Minors are unnamed in Portugal and in France, but this is the unique restriction. In Germany however, protagonists of a fait-divers aren't surnamed. Am I not allowed to find it better this way ?
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on January 20, 2014, 02:36:41 AM
What do you mean, John ? She didn't ask to be named. What interest is there in naming the protagonists of a drama ?

She called police and claimed her son had disappeared. That was guaranteed to result in a well-publicised search, an inevitable result of which she herself would be named.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Moderator on January 20, 2014, 06:29:41 AM
Family members spoke of their devastation, describing Mikaeel as a shy and playful boy who never left his mother’s side. Pandeep, 37, who is Rosdeep’s sister, said: ‘We’re devastated. We’ve just lost him.’

Mikaeel’s grandmother Harjinder, 59, a retired doctor who is Miss Kular’s mother, said: ‘This has been such a difficult time and my head is all over the place. I just want to be there for my daughter but I am appreciative for all that has been done to help us. I’m very sad.’

Speaking from their detached home near the woods where Mikaeel was found, her husband Dr Bangarpet Krishnaswamy added: ‘I’d like to thank all the public and the police for the search, which sadly turned out to be futile. I am sorry, I am too upset to say anything more.’
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: colombosstogey on January 20, 2014, 06:39:09 AM
Family members spoke of their devastation, describing Mikaeel as a shy and playful boy who never left his mother’s side. Pandeep, 37, who is Rosdeep’s sister, said: ‘We’re devastated. We’ve just lost him.’

Mikaeel’s grandmother Harjinder, 59, a retired doctor who is Miss Kular’s mother, said: ‘This has been such a difficult time and my head is all over the place. I just want to be there for my daughter but I am appreciative for all that has been done to help us. I’m very sad.’

Speaking from their detached home near the woods where Mikaeel was found, her husband Dr Bangarpet Krishnaswamy added: ‘I’d like to thank all the public and the police for the search, which sadly turned out to be futile. I am sorry, I am too upset to say anything more.’

Bless its so sad, all this fall out. They have lost their grandson, and their daughter sadly. Their lives are ruined. At the end of their life that they have worked hard and hoping to enjoy some quiet times in retirement, seconds in someones life has changed all that.......
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Cariad on January 20, 2014, 07:14:41 AM
Bless its so sad, all this fall out. They have lost their grandson, and their daughter sadly. Their lives are ruined. At the end of their life that they have worked hard and hoping to enjoy some quiet times in retirement, seconds in someones life has changed all that.......

I completely agree. I hope that some respect is shown to the family by the media.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 20, 2014, 07:50:47 AM
BBC Scotland

 Mikaeel Kular: Two men arrested over racist tweets
 Mikaeel Kular The racist tweets related to the disappearance of Mikaeel Kular

 Offensive Mikaeel tweet investigated

 Two men have been arrested after racist comments about the disappearance of three-year-old Mikaeel Kular were posted on Twitter.

 Police said the men, aged 19 and 26, had been arrested, questioned and released on bail.

 The tweets were brought to the attention of Police Scotland by members of the public in Edinburgh.

 Police Scotland officers liaised with Hampshire and Derbyshire forces to identify the suspects.

 On Saturday, Police Scotland said they were investigating another offensive tweet relating to the case which had originated in the Manchester area.

 Ch Supt Mark Williams, Police Scotland's divisional commander for Edinburgh, said: "Any reports of racist, offensive or abusive comments made online will be thoroughly investigated and those responsible will be brought to justice.

 "If you commit an offence, we will investigate it and you will be prosecuted"


Rightly so..

I wonder how they define 'offensive' exactly,

And surely any kind of racism is completely unacceptable, unless it's a joke about an Englishman, Irishman & a Scotsman, of course because there would be absolutely nothing racist about that would there.

The extreme racist is more liberal than any hypocrite liberal.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwEi5Dpq6zs
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 20, 2014, 07:56:23 AM
I wonder how they define 'offensive' exactly,

And surely any kind of racism is completely unacceptable, unless it's a joke about an Englishman, Irishman & a Scotsman, of course because there would be absolutely nothing racist about that would there.

I think most of us understand what is offensive
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 20, 2014, 08:22:58 AM
I think most of us understand what is offensive

It's subjective.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: jassi on January 20, 2014, 08:51:43 AM
It's subjective.

Indeed it is. Some people can be offended by the slightest thing, while others aren't.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: lizzibif on January 20, 2014, 09:18:52 AM
I wonder how they define 'offensive' exactly,

And surely any kind of racism is completely unacceptable, unless it's a joke about an Englishman, Irishman & a Scotsman, of course because there would be absolutely nothing racist about that would there.

The extreme racist is more liberal than any hypocrite liberal.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwEi5Dpq6zs


Hardly the same thing when a deceased 3 year old boy is  involved..plus we don't know to the extent what the racist comments were..obviously serious enough for the police to get involved..
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 20, 2014, 09:26:05 AM
It's subjective.

to a certain extent it is...but it is also governed by law
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 20, 2014, 10:11:11 AM
She called police and claimed her son had disappeared. That was guaranteed to result in a well-publicised search, an inevitable result of which she herself would be named.
I'm not suggesting that she should have been asked her name when she called the police !
I'm just asking what is the necessity to put her name in the media ? Freedom of information doesn't imply information on identity.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Angelo222 on January 20, 2014, 11:37:57 AM
What "reasoning" are you talking about, Angelo ? Minors are unnamed in Portugal and in France, but this is the unique restriction. In Germany however, protagonists of a fait-divers aren't surnamed. Am I not allowed to find it better this way ?

Are we all to suddenly develop amnesia since a missing child case has now turned into a murder inquiry?  Miss Kular sought the help of the public so it was only natural that her name and the name of the missing child be known just as it was with Madeleine McCann.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: lizzibif on January 20, 2014, 12:01:05 PM
What is it that you dont understand about the press releasing her name..the way I read it is that the press shouldn't have gave out the mother 's name when she was only detained at the time the press released it..that it what the scots courts are talking about..not that she was named as the boys mother..before she was detained..
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 20, 2014, 01:02:14 PM
to a certain extent it is...but it is also governed by law

Well whatever they have said would have to be 'beyond offensive' for them to face trial apparently.

http://oursocialtimes.com/prosecutors-clarify-uk-law-on-offensive-social-media-posts/
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 20, 2014, 04:50:05 PM
Are we all to suddenly develop amnesia since a missing child case has now turned into a murder inquiry?  Miss Kular sought the help of the public so it was only natural that her name and the name of the missing child be known just as it was with Madeleine McCann.
I wonder what function "McCann" had in the media for the search of Madeleine.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: AnneGuedes on January 20, 2014, 04:51:36 PM
What is it that you dont understand about the press releasing her name..the way I read it is that the press shouldn't have gave out the mother 's name when she was only detained at the time the press released it..that it what the scots courts are talking about..not that she was named as the boys mother..before she was detained..
The name "Kular" was of no use for the search. The public should ignore it.
Title: Re: Mikaeel Kular > Body found at aunt's home in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
Post by: Eleanor on January 20, 2014, 05:14:50 PM
I wonder what function "McCann" had in the media for the search of Madeleine.

Can't you leave it alone for five minutes?  The McCanns had nothing to do with this.