EU membership, should we stay or leave?

[Angelo222]

If Obama and the yanks want us to stay in the EU then its time to get out.  If we don't leave this German led project right now we will lose all sense of national identity as a one State federal Europe is their aim.

[scipio_usmc]

If Obama and the yanks want us to stay in the EU then its time to get out.  If we don't leave this German led project right now we will lose all sense of national identity as a one State federal Europe is their aim.

Why are you attributing Obama's view to all Americans?  Most Americans don't care and don't even understand that the UK is part of the EU in the first place since the UK doesn't use the Euro and is not a full fledged member.

I think joining the EU was a crappy deal for the UK and would not stay in, especially after the EU has shown how worthless its governance truly is.  Economically I don't see how the UK benefited and you even lost your cool black passports. I would vote to exit if I were a Brit.

Obama is a clown who only got a second term because Romney ran such a pitiful campaign and so many people chose to stay home instead of showing up at the polls to vote against Obama. Obama won by a very small margin in key states. Had people been smart enough to show up to vote we would have been saved from another 4 years of misery- well spared some misery Romney would have sucked in his own right but was the lesser of 2 evils.

Whether you stay or not has no impact at all on the US so far as I see so I don't care either way though I would vote to leave if a Brit.

 

[Holly Goodhead]

I don't feel I know enough about it to have any strong views either way.

Apparently the economic argument for is based on the claim immigrants are in the main net contributors ie they pay more in taxes than they take out eg welfare and pensions.  As far as I can see this is to be expected as most migrants are young and childless.  This might not always be the case though ie if they decide to stay long-term. Also additional funds will be needed to maintain and increase infrastructure eg schools, hospital, health care services, transport etc.  I think it's difficult to quantify.

I spent four nights in London during Christmas/New Yr.  During my stay I visited bars, restaurants, shops and the theatre.  The only British person I encountered ie no foreign accent was a female cabbie.  The nearest to this encounter was the ticket seller at the Lyceum theatre who was Aussie.  Where are all the British born?  All the foreigners were polite, helpful and friendly so I was not particularly bothered.  It was just an observation I couldn't help noticing.

European leaders have admitted multiculturalism has failed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11559451

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8317497/Nicolas-Sarkozy-declares-multiculturalism-had-failed.html

[Countess Mayberry]

Does anyone know how a Brexit may affect the Brits with properties and investments in Europe? I am personally all for change if it's going to benefit the next generation and it's quite a responsibility in that sense to be the generation that makes the change for the future. I hope a Brexit is not merely an attempt to solve the immigration crisis and has the long term economical benefits in mind as a priority. Without sounding too ignorant about politics, what are the top 3 gains and losses associated with a vote to leave the EU?

[Holly Goodhead]

Does anyone know how a Brexit may affect the Brits with properties and investments in Europe? I am personally all for change if it's going to benefit the next generation and it's quite a responsibility in that sense to be the generation that makes the change for the future. I hope a Brexit is not merely an attempt to solve the immigration crisis and has the long term economical benefits in mind as a priority. Without sounding too ignorant about politics, what are the top 3 gains and losses associated with a vote to leave the EU?

I don't think it will affect Brits with properties and investments in Europe.  Assets held in Europe will rise or fall dependant on market conditions. 

I think it's just a case of spending a bit of time Googling various newspapers etc and forming your own views.  I don't think there's a single unbiased source.

Given the PM and leader of the opposition are warning against a Brexit I think it's unlikely to happen.  Voters are likely to opt for the 'better the devil you know' than an unknown.  People will only usually opt for change if they're suffering and most aren't. 

[John]

This could very well be the last time our generation will have an opportunity to get out of this corrupt institution, it's a bit like FIFA but without the football.  The EU should never have been allowed to get as big as it has done, it suits the agendas of certain countries however.  The Germans want a Federal Europe with them at the centre of it, that in itself is a major reason for getting the hell out.

The farming industry in Northern Ireland has been damaged greatly by our membership yet just over the border in the Irish Republic the EU is falling over itself to spend OUR money in lavish grants and aid payments to Irish farmers. We are effectively being asked to subsidize our competitors to the tune of £ millions.

If the UK does vote to leave I can see other countries following suit, all that will be left will be Germany and the Eastern European scroungers so basically good luck to them!

[Holly Goodhead]

This could very well be the last time our generation will have an opportunity to get out of this corrupt institution, it's a bit like FIFA but without the football.  The EU should never have been allowed to get as big as it has done, it suits the agendas of certain countries however.  The Germans want a Federal Europe with them at the centre of it, that in itself is a major reason for getting the hell out.

The farming industry in Northern Ireland has been damaged greatly by our membership yet just over the border in the Irish Republic the EU is falling over itself to spend OUR money in lavish grants and aid payments to Irish farmers. We are effectively being asked to subsidize our competitors to the tune of £ millions.

If the UK does vote to leave I can see other countries following suit, all that will be left will be Germany and the Eastern European scroungers so basically good luck to them!

I have no strong views either way as I don't feel I know enough about it and I can't be bothered to research it all but I just don't see it happening anyway.  Today the BoE has warned of a Brexit recession:

http://news.sky.com/story/1694873/bank-raises-recession-fears-in-brexit-warning

This is on the back of warnings of a Brexit from the PM and leader of the opposition.

Britian can potentially leave as we have our own currency.  For those countries with the Euro exiting will be that much more difficult. 

Maybe it's diffrent in NI but as far as I'm aware most farmers in England would struggle without EU subsidies.

I think it will be like the vote for Scottish Independence where voters like the idea but when push comes to shove they lack the balls for the unknown and change.  In London and the SE most are prospering like never before and have very good standards of living so why risk it?

[Miss Taken Identity]

This is becoming a nasty party political mud slinging event. The BBC are trying to protect themselves by kissing the (_I_) of the stayiners. They have been given the all clear to keep taxing the public without the bat of an eye in return for nice stayinners publicity. I note the stayinners have not decriminalised this 'crime' of watching a TV   lol. and Angelina Jolie  oh purleeze

Although the intellegenza poo poo the idea that immigration is the crux for many illiterate bigots and zenophobics alike, to be the only choice reason for Brexit, lets look at the real impact.

We as kingdoms united, were able to feed ourselves, produce goods, export our surplus we had a common goal to survive what ever. Can we not do that again? Can we not have white local commuities calling the shots with local people making decisions? who can live where and who can't? There is nothing wrong with people from other countries comming here and working- we  should have no issue with that. What most people I know find repulsive is being forced to be part of a social experiment of introducing multiculturalism- hence new criminalisation with new names like racist being over used to point at the 'white ' community where as the most racists community you will find is within the Asian 'community' they have a caste system. their 'laws' ( this comes under the culture banner) are incompatable with ours and yet we do nothing. The majority are forced to 'acccept' the minority way of doing things even though this is in complete contrast to our moral and ethical thinking.  It would be an abomination for a white man to marry a 15 year old,  they would go to jail as sex offenders but in Asian community with our knowledge, men in their 60;s can marry a 5 year old. SO what has this got to do with EU, well we must be tolerant apparently of these offensive refugees types- if we pursue these people we are called rascist. If we do not feed these people we are called rascist if we do not house these people we are called rascist in effect we have become a nation of scared people who have nothing to be scared of. Let us all stand together and celebrate being rascist if that is what it takes to get our country back.

The real scandal is  the real cost of this mass invasion sorry mass immigration is being hidden,we are  borrowing money and paying interest on the borrowed money to pay for this priveledge of not being called rascist.

Just as an aside about economy. it cost one day in a clinic over £500.00  for interpreters! We are borrowing money to pay for this and patients are being turned away due to lack of funds.  Yes,  immigration is just one luxury we can't afford. because we have to look at the big picture which is: what is the starving population of Africa? what is the population of Afghanistan and Pakistan and Iraq? yes, many millions all wating to get here to this country. we should be selective who we let in After all, didn't black countries take back control from  the bad white man?

Immigration is only one reason for leaving. it is a major one, it is affecting out culture, social, education, freedoms, liberty,  and our economy.

[John]

I really have got to laugh at the Tory government's attempts to scare everybody into voting stay in the referendum.  According to them the country will go down the pan if we vote to leave, wages will fall, goods will get dearer, house prices will fall, our security will be threatened etc etc...  What this does show however is the grip which the European Union has over us at the moment, everything we do in our country is now at their discretion.  If we don't get the hell out of this farce what will it be like five years, ten years or twenty years down the line because if it is that bad now it can only get worse.

I say VOTE LEAVE and not look back! 

They need us a damn sight more than we need them!

[stephen25000]

I really have got to laugh at the Tory government's attempts to scare everybody into voting stay in the referendum.  According to them the country will go down the pan if we vote to leave, wages will fall, goods will get dearer, house prices will fall, our security will be threatened etc etc...  What this does show however is the grip which the European Union has over us at the moment, everything we do in our country is now at their discretion.  If we don't get the hell out of this farce what will it be like five years, ten years or twenty years down the line because if it is that bad now it can only get worse.

I say VOTE LEAVE and not look back! 

They need us a damn sight more than we need them!

Why does the EU need us more than we need need them  ?

I find it a profound irony that this country has been built on immigration over thousands of years.

It is a fact that migrants to this country from the EU or outside, are net providers to the treasury.

Is the EU any less  incompetent than Westminster  ?

Personally, I don't think it will make any difference whether we leave or stay as regards the vast majority of people, but I tell you this, some multi-national companies will re-locate to Europe if we leave.

...and by the way, what exactly is the National Identity for the UK ?

I see no change in National Identities at all.

Perhaps a pint of Lager and a Chicken Tikka Massala ?

[John]

Why does the EU need us more than we need need them  ?

I find it a profound irony that this country has been built on immigration over thousands of years.

It is a fact that migrants to this country from the EU or outside, are net providers to the treasury.

Is the EU any less  incompetent than Westminster  ?

Personally, I don't think it will make any difference whether we leave or stay as regards the vast majority of people, but I tell you this, some multi-national companies will re-locate to Europe if we leave.

...and by the way, what exactly is the National Identity for the UK ?

I see no change in National Identities at all.

Perhaps a pint of Lager and a Chicken Tikka Massala ?

The EU sells a hell of a lot more to us than we do to them, about 9% of our GDP to be precise.  If we got rid of the customs tariffs imposed by the EU which are aimed at protecting eastern European bloc countries we could trade with the rest of the world much more easily and cheaper.  The EU is an impediment to free trade, not a facilitator.

The only people crying about the possibility of leaving the EU are the fat cat profiteers based in London and the South East. The rest of the UK has had little benefit from the EU.  In the farming industry for example, farmers in Ulster have seen their incomes decimated and their farms deteriorate whilst farmers in the Irish Republic have seen growth and boom.  Irish farmers are plied with grants by the EU for just about everything simply because the Republic of Ireland was designated a low growth region.  Why should those of us who have built a farming industry over several generations subsidise poorer areas?  Why should British farmers lose out whilst those in former Soviet bloc States prosper?

You ask why the EU needs us?  It's very simple, we spend £ billions buying their goods.  They need to flog us their cars, lorries, domestic appliances etc etc...  Thing is though, once we're out of the EU we can still buy them but wait for it...ON OUR TERMS!  That's the big difference, we will buy what suits us and at a price which we want to pay.  No more protectionism for the likes of Renault, Peugeot, Citroen, Mercedes, BMW, Fiat, Seat and the rest of them who have been dumping cars on us for years at inflated prices.

If we leave the EU we will be able to trade with the rest of the world on a free market basis, supply and demand, no more customs tariffs, no more inflated prices.  Food will become cheaper to us as the EU stranglehold on importers disappears, again if the EU wants to continue to flog us their products it will be on our terms, not theirs!

No wonder the EU is crapping itself at the thought of us leaving, how could we ever contemplate ever doing such a thing?

[stephen25000]

For reference purposes.


file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/SN06091.pdf

You are aware I presume John that even the leave campaign have admitted GDP would suffer and not recover to approx 2030 ?

I'm afraid the dumping of high priced goods has come largely from America.

'ON OUR TERMS'.

Don't think so.

We will be at the bottom of the queue.

Long gone are the days that this country carries any real weight.

Our industry was decimated by Thatcher, whilst other countries made sure that didn't happen to them.

Can you tell me what real UK owned industry do we have left John ?

It is becoming increasingly a global community and I'm afraid if we leave the EU, despite it 's drawbacks, this country will rapidly deteriorate.

Do you approve of the United STATES of America ?

Note the word 'STATES'.

The EU is certainly not crapping itself, where did you get that idea ?

[John]

According to Open Europe's comprehensive Brexit report, UK GDP could be 2.2% lower in 2030 if Britain leaves the EU and fails to strike a deal with the EU or reverts into protectionism. In a best case scenario, under which the UK manages to enter into liberal trade arrangements with the EU and the rest of the world, whilst pursuing large-scale deregulation at home, Britain could be better off by 1.6% of GDP in 2030. However, a far more realistic range is between a 0.8% permanent loss to GDP in 2030 and a 0.6% permanent gain in GDP in 2030, in scenarios where Britain mixes policy approaches.

http://openeurope.org.uk/intelligence/britain-and-the-eu/what-if-there-were-a-brexit/

I go with the better off option for so many reasons.

[John]

You have to realise Stephen that the EU sells us 91% of what we buy while we only sell them 9%.  They need us big time otherwise France, Germany and Italy will see massive recession which will impact on the dodgy Euro.

We don't need Europe Stephen, why don't you realise this?  The only reason the EU exists is a stepping stone to a federal United States of Europe with all people being equal and with the Germans ruling the roost.  If you want that vote remain!

The other issue of course is unfettered migration to our small island if we stay in the EU with millions of Turks just waiting their chance to come aboard.  You talk of a national identity, well if we stay in the EU that will be gone by 2020. London and some English cities might have lost their national identity but the vast majority of the UK hasn't.

[stephen25000]

According to Open Europe's comprehensive Brexit report, UK GDP could be 2.2% lower in 2030 if Britain leaves the EU and fails to strike a deal with the EU or reverts into protectionism. In a best case scenario, under which the UK manages to enter into liberal trade arrangements with the EU and the rest of the world, whilst pursuing large-scale deregulation at home, Britain could be better off by 1.6% of GDP in 2030. However, a far more realistic range is between a 0.8% permanent loss to GDP in 2030 and a 0.6% permanent gain in GDP in 2030, in scenarios where Britain mixes policy approaches.

http://openeurope.org.uk/intelligence/britain-and-the-eu/what-if-there-were-a-brexit/

I go with the better off option for so many reasons.

That is a matter of perspective and a knowledge of Economics.

and there are so many variables to be dealt with.

If, as I think likely there is a 'NO' vote majority, we will be in a period of major economic uncertainty, and make mistake about that.

The jingoistic approach I see from many people simply will not cut the reality of the situation after a vote to leave.

The irony being, it will be mostly on the fear of immigration, which as I said is a major loser in terms of reality, as immigrants are net contributors to the UK Economy, AND THAT IS A fact.