Author Topic: EU membership, should we stay or leave?  (Read 126425 times)

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Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
« Reply #375 on: June 22, 2016, 01:19:35 PM »
I see that Michael Gove has labelled some Economists Nazis, merely because they question Brexit's 'forecasts'.

That is truly deplorable but no more than I would expect from him or his kindred.

That is truly desperate stuff. 

Whatever your persuasion, this video is well worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USTypBKEd8Y

 




Offline John

Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
« Reply #376 on: June 22, 2016, 01:43:24 PM »
That is truly desperate stuff. 

Whatever your persuasion, this video is well worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USTypBKEd8Y

No surprises there then since he earns his keep from that corrupt EU institution.

https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/law/staff/michael-dougan/
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 01:46:23 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
« Reply #377 on: June 22, 2016, 02:00:59 PM »
No surprises there then since he earns his keep from that corrupt EU institution.

https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/law/staff/michael-dougan/

So do you criticise anyone to do with Brexit ?

One of the women  in the TV debate lied last night in saying all 28 countries are seeking closer Union.

In fact only 19 of those countries, at the moment could that be applied to, as they use the Euro currency.

Offline John

Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
« Reply #378 on: June 22, 2016, 02:15:41 PM »
So do you criticise anyone to do with Brexit ?

One of the women  in the TV debate lied last night in saying all 28 countries are seeking closer Union.

In fact only 19 of those countries, at the moment could that be applied to, as they use the Euro currency.

I think there is a lot of exaggeration going on Stephen.  What I would like to know however is what does Cameron know that the rest of us don't since he is so desperate to remain? 
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
« Reply #379 on: June 22, 2016, 02:38:55 PM »
Angela Merkel the most powerful person in the EU welcomed asylum seekers with open arms which most realised was a stupid thing to do...

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
« Reply #380 on: June 22, 2016, 02:52:31 PM »
No surprises there then since he earns his keep from that corrupt EU institution.

https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/law/staff/michael-dougan/

I am stunned, John.  Do you mean that a professor of EU law is consulted on EU law?  That's disgraceful. 

That said, on which particular aspects of his talk is he wrong, and why?

Offline John

Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
« Reply #381 on: June 22, 2016, 03:07:58 PM »
I am stunned, John.  Do you mean that a professor of EU law is consulted on EU law?  That's disgraceful. 

That said, on which particular aspects of his talk is he wrong, and why?

He earns his salary because of the EU.  He has thus a vested interest in its survival.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
« Reply #382 on: June 22, 2016, 03:15:11 PM »
He earns his salary because of the EU.  He has thus a vested interest in its survival.

He earns his salary as an expert in EU and constitutional law.  If we left the EU he would be in huge demand.

Having listened to his talk, where is he wrong and why?

Offline Angelo222

Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
« Reply #383 on: June 22, 2016, 05:07:52 PM »
He earns his salary as an expert in EU and constitutional law.  If we left the EU he would be in huge demand.

Having listened to his talk, where is he wrong and why?

My experience of academics is that their grasp of the real world is limited.  So many were wrong on the Euro and will be wrong on #BrExit.  Vested interest is a powerful motivator.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline John

Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
« Reply #384 on: June 22, 2016, 05:27:27 PM »
My experience of academics is that their grasp of the real world is limited.  So many were wrong on the Euro and will be wrong on #BrExit.  Vested interest is a powerful motivator.

People should make up their own minds based on their own experience of the EU and not be influence by soothsayers and crystal ball gazers.

We know that a shed load of money is wasted every day as a result of our continued membership of this corrupt and wasteful institution.  Our entire way of life is being influenced by it and for the worse.  After #BrExit there should be a general election in order to sweep the boards clean.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 05:31:39 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline misty

Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
« Reply #385 on: June 22, 2016, 05:46:17 PM »
We've come such a long way since the 1970's. Don't destroy it all with a Brexit vote tomorrow.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
« Reply #386 on: June 22, 2016, 05:53:46 PM »

Who have come a long way since the 70's?

Where have they come from exactly & how is it that Brexit will destroy them?

You've lost me.

Vote Leave, it's easier to understand.

I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
« Reply #387 on: June 22, 2016, 05:54:36 PM »
Its fascinating that instead of pointing out where Michael Dougan's excellent and reasoned analysis of the EU constitutional and legal position, all that you can manage is:

"My experience of academics is that their grasp of the real world is limited"

"He earns his salary because of the EU.  He has thus a vested interest in its survival"

In other words "i don't like / understand what he is saying, so I'll take the easy way out and sneer that he is "an expert" or "an academic".

If you are going to make a case for Leave, then at least do so on the basis of facts and argument - not ill informed opinion.  This decision is too bl**dy important for our children.     

So where is he wrong on the EU?

Just a couple of points will do. 




Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
« Reply #388 on: June 22, 2016, 05:58:14 PM »
Who have come a long way since the 70's?

Where have they come from exactly & how is it that Brexit will destroy them?

You've lost me.

Vote Leave, it's easier to understand.

Of course it is, Spam.  And you can listen to Johnson, Gove and Farage slogan "take back control, vote leave". 

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
« Reply #389 on: June 22, 2016, 06:41:25 PM »
Brexiteers seem to me largely motivated by a fear of increasing numbers of immigrants coming to these shores, but if they think that will be the case post-Brexit they are IMO living in cloud-cuckoo land.  Consider this (written by Daniel Finkelstein, so ripe for ridicule by the Leavers, but never mind...)

"By leaving the European single market, Britain makes itself a less attractive place for big businesses to invest. This is hard to dispute, and in any case they are overwhelmingly telling us themselves. It will also make it harder for us to trade.

So unless we act, we will be poorer. The Leave economic argument is that by freeing ourselves from the EU we will be able to act. The Remainiacs aren’t getting this, they argue. We won’t just be sitting here, suffering. We will be taking back control.

Now think what this might mean in practice. To be a success outside the single market, to be attractive to businesses and to investment, we would need to be a European offshore low-cost competitive mecca for companies.


We would have to offset the increased cost of doing business here that leaving brings (in the form of barriers, both tariff and non-tariff, to European trade) by cutting our own costs even more sharply.

We would need to have lower taxes on foreign rich people than the Continent, pay lower wages to unskilled people than elsewhere in Europe and cut public spending further to keep taxes down. We would need to make old people work longer. Oh, and we would need a huge influx of immigrants, both skilled and unskilled, to ensure that we had a very competitive workforce".

Now tell me why he is wrong.