Author Topic: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.  (Read 67761 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #270 on: November 24, 2019, 07:37:51 PM »
LOL... that's the same one I uploaded in an earlier post.   But even that is inaccurate where the steps up from the Butler's Pantry/Lower Hall on the right are supposed to link with a landing (4) which then leads downstairs to the Basement.
You are right.  Previously I was concentrating on the  Western side access to the kitchen.

We also have an issue that John Fernie read some sort of note through the "patio door", yet at no time does anyone determine which door was the "patio door".  No ground floor plans have a patio, or a "patio door" marked on them.

We also have an issue that John Fernie read some sort of note through the "patio door", yet at no time does anyone determine which door was the "patio door".  No ground floor plans have a patio, or a "patio door" marked on them.

This article mentions patio "Instead, they claim baseball fan Burke may have bashed his sister to death with a pair of bats found in the yard far from their usual place on the patio, or with his father's golf clubs, which were stashed away in a cupboard." https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11722756

there was also the case of the suspected arson at the house https://extras.denverpost.com/news/jon100.htm

It mentions the patio.  "He had "basically spent the night on the Ramsey property," much of it on the patio on the south side of the house, the report said. Thompson told police he lit paper on fire and pushed it through the mail slot"

So we know the patio was on the south side which is the same side as Fernie described it as. 
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 09:46:51 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Myster

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #271 on: November 24, 2019, 07:54:25 PM »
You are right.  Previously I was concentrating on the  Western side access to the kitchen.

We also have an issue that John Fernie read some sort of note through the "patio door", yet at no time does anyone determine which door was the "patio door".  No ground floor plans have a patio, or a "patio door" marked on them.
I think patio door in Fernie's testament is just a generic description for an outside door of any type.  It doesn't necesarily have to have a patio outside either.

Who on earth designed such a ludicrous house?!!!  I'm off for now, it's making my head spin...

http://www.brand-google.com/jonbenet-ramsey-house-floor-plan/ramsey-house-for-sale-again-page-10/
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #272 on: November 25, 2019, 07:40:55 AM »
I think patio door in Fernie's testament is just a generic description for an outside door of any type.  It doesn't necesarily have to have a patio outside either.

Who on earth designed such a ludicrous house?!!!  I'm off for now, it's making my head spin...

http://www.brand-google.com/jonbenet-ramsey-house-floor-plan/ramsey-house-for-sale-again-page-10/
whereto now?
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Offline Myster

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #273 on: November 25, 2019, 08:40:57 AM »
whereto now?
Not sure, Rob.  You know loads more than I do on this.  Work to do daytime anyway, so will have to leave it until evenings.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #274 on: November 25, 2019, 09:50:39 AM »
Going back to continue to review Perfect Murder Perfect Town (PMPT):

"The photograph showed the spot where a protective metal plate on the door jamb had fallen off months before the murder. She had seen the plate become looser until one day it fell off, revealing the same marks that she now saw in the photograph. Hoffmann-Pugh had taken the plate to Patsy, who wasn’t concerned enough to have it replaced. The detached plate had sat on a shelf in the hallway near the kitchen. " 

Can we determine which door this was?  What about the photo?

A reply "no - - the butler door was easy to jimmie open, the damaged door was on the south side of the house where the kids played.

Floor plan:

« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 10:59:30 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #275 on: November 25, 2019, 05:27:03 PM »
Going back to continue to review Perfect Murder Perfect Town (PMPT):

"The photograph showed the spot where a protective metal plate on the door jamb had fallen off months before the murder. She had seen the plate become looser until one day it fell off, revealing the same marks that she now saw in the photograph. Hoffmann-Pugh had taken the plate to Patsy, who wasn’t concerned enough to have it replaced. The detached plate had sat on a shelf in the hallway near the kitchen. " 

Can we determine which door this was?  What about the photo?
Patsy and John seem to be getting their priorities wrong:
1.  Broken Window in basement not fixed - don't they have glaziers in Boulder.
2. Broken door left unfixed for the want of a couple of screws.
3.  Spare key going missing.

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #276 on: November 25, 2019, 05:45:11 PM »
Patsy and John seem to be getting their priorities wrong:
1.  Broken Window in basement not fixed - don't they have glaziers in Boulder.
2. Broken door left unfixed for the want of a couple of screws.
3.  Spare key going missing.
Does a list of errors like that add up to child abuse?   
There was not setting the burglar alarm because it would go off too often.

The Grand Jury were going to indict John and Patsy for child abuse and in an interview John seems to put that down to sloppiness of the home security.
I can't recall anyone being charged with child abuse caused by the lack of home maintenance!
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #277 on: November 25, 2019, 05:46:46 PM »
Where are the bots when you need them?

"Robittybob1 and 0 Guests are viewing this board."
It has been a quiet day on the forum.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 10:49:22 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #278 on: November 25, 2019, 07:18:59 PM »
Now this was a revelation moment when I read this.

"10 The worst thing that can ever happen to you is to lose a child. It becomes a hole that can never be filled. After Beth died, John didn’t have a lot of pictures of Melinda and John Andrew around—just photos of Beth, even in his bathroom. He’d written a poem to her called “Daddy’s Little Girl” that he kept on his dresser where he put his watch and loose change every night. Right where he could see it every day. Twice a day, really. I remember some of that poem. It was a “Your First Steps” kind of thing. He wrote, “And the best thing of the day is to look after daddy’s little girl . . .” and “You are growing older with woman looks that are now clear.” So John Ramsey had already lost one child. I cannot imagine anyone who has gone through that pain to intentionally inflict it on himself a second time. I cannot imagine it. Just cannot. His subconscious knew that pain. It is the worst pain ever. His subconscious would have stopped him. Whoever struck that blow, it wasn’t John Ramsey. —Linda Wilcox"
Page 557 PMPT.

Who is Linda Wilcox?  "Linda Wilcox
Former Ramsey Housekeeper
Hired 1993, Left September 4, 1995"
http://www.acandyrose.com/s-linda-wilcox.htm

A shrine for one of the kids but not the others.  That could be enough to cause jealousy and anger toward him.

"An interesting peek into family dynamics as told by Linda Wilcox"
https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenet/comments/57u2b2/an_interesting_peek_into_family_dynamics_as_told/
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 10:48:27 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #279 on: November 25, 2019, 07:46:28 PM »
Even the experts have trouble agreeing.

"Meyer noted in his report that the pineapple in JonBenét’s small intestine was in near-perfect condition—it had sharp edges and looked as if it had been recently eaten and poorly chewed. Based on the condition of the pineapple in her intestine, the experts estimated that JonBenét had eaten it an hour and a half or two hours before she died, most likely after the family returned home that night. However, one Boulder medical examiner stated it could have been eaten as early as 4:30 P.M.—before the Ramseys left their home for a dinner at the Whites. If JonBenét had eaten the pineapple after 10:30 P.M., that made the approximate time of death not earlier than midnight. Next, the investigators reviewed JonBenét’s various injuries.A blow to the head can result in bleeding inside the skull, which can cause death immediately or sometime later. Microscopic examination of the area near the brain where the bleeding occurred can help determine how long before death the injury took place. But was it the garroting or the head injury that had caused JonBenét’s death? The experts agreed that either would have been fatal. According to the specialists, her head injury had likely come first. Since a six-year-old’s skull is more resilient than an adult’s, the blow must have been of tremendous force. The injury to her head was fully developed, which meant that her heart had beaten for some time after the blow. Also, the bruise to her brain did not immediately shut down

559

all activity in JonBenét’s body. However, the strangulation by the noose had created a deep furrow in her neck, which acted like a tourniquet and caused complete interruption of the blood flow to and from her brain. The specialists estimated that ten to forty-five minutes might have elapsed between the blow to her head and the cessation of JonBenét’s vital functions, which was probably caused by the noose being pulled tight with the help of the stick attached to the cord. It was possible, however, that the strangulation occurred first, then while in progress the blow to the head took place, and the continual strangulation caused JonBenét’s death. The conjecture that the blow to JonBenét’s head took place first fit the scenario that the police considered most likely: that JonBenét had been struck on the head with the heavy flashlight in or near the kitchen. The police had found it on a kitchen counter. Finally, the detectives turned to the microscopic splinter of cellulose found in JonBenét’s vagina, which looked like wood. The broken paintbrush that had been tied to the stick was splintered into shards. Logic suggested that a splinter of wood might have stuck to the perpetrator’s finger before he or she penetrated JonBenét vaginally. It could also have broken off the end of the paintbrush if the stick, rather than a finger, was used to penetrate her. If the cellulose did, in fact, come from the paintbrush, then most probably the “garrote” had been assembled before JonBenét was violated. Since there was some evidence of vaginal bleeding, it was also logical to assume that the child had already been strangled but was not yet dead when she was penetrated. Consistent with penetration of a female child of JonBenét’s age, her hymen was torn. In such a case, the edges are pulled away and recede quickly, creating a visible difference between a torn and an intact hymen. Photographs of her injured hymen taken at the autopsy

560

indicated to some experts a recent tear, fresh bleeding, and no healing. Logic suggested that JonBenét had been penetrated almost concurrently with her death. There remained the question whether JonBenét had also been penetrated—that is, sexually abused—previously. Here the experts disagreed. Dr. David Jones said the child’s vagina showed a history of abuse, since the cellulose dated from an old injury. Dr. Spitz, however, said there was no clear indication of prior penetration and that the cellulose dated from the injury that had taken place around her time of death.

I’d be driving someplace and I would ruminate over it. It’s not like you can say, “I’ve done the autopsy. I’ve submitted my report. We’ve done our thing. It’s not my problem anymore.” It’s an unsolved case I can’t dismiss, because there is a possibility that I’m going to be involved in it again. I know I’m going to testify. I try to theorize how things occurred. What are the triggers? I’d come to the point that I was real clear on it and then, the next day or a week later, I’d think about it again and wouldn’t be very clear on what happened. I probably have come up with a variety of different scenarios at different times. I don’t think at this point, right now, I am that clear about what happened. —John Meyer"

From that my impression that the neck ligature being applied first, then blow to the head, then final strangulation still can be justified.

Were the statements about the pineapple really in the autopsy report?  That bit was news to me!  The blue portion is the direct quote from Meyer, the earlier part seems more of an analysis by the author.  Did he get it right?

Full text of the autopsy report is located https://www.denverpost.com/1996/08/13/text-of-jonbenet-autopsy-report/?fbclid=IwAR022NCe01UpxzSF2yW4jBO0SvzOjT36wB_aJz3xx0e37pUeMHiMjrxoQ9I

In the report it says:
"G.I. Tract: The esophagus is empty. It is lined by gray-white mucosa. The stomach contains a small amount (8-11cc) of viscous to green to tan colored thick mucous material without particulate matter identified. The gastic mucosa is autolyzed but contains no areas of hemorrhage or ulceration. The yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable or fruit material which may represent fragments of pineapple. No hemorrhage is identified. The remainder of the small intestine is unremarkable. The large intestine contains soft green fecal material. The appendix is present."

and that is vastly different to the above report:
"Meyer noted in his report that the pineapple in JonBenét’s small intestine was in near-perfect condition—it had sharp edges and looked as if it had been recently eaten and poorly chewed. Based on the condition of the pineapple in her intestine, the experts estimated that JonBenét had eaten it an hour and a half or two hours before she died, most likely after the family returned home that night."

Is there still something we don't know?   It appears someone is lying.

« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 10:47:40 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #280 on: November 25, 2019, 07:59:38 PM »
Another topic that needs discussing is Burke's pocketknife.
 
"Then there was the issue of where Burke’s red pocket knife had been kept prior to the murder; it was found a few yards from JonBenét’s body." PMPT

"[Although] Hoffmann-Pugh never saw the knife again… it resurfaced [in the evidence inventory] following the 10-day police search [of the Ramsey home]…Specifically, Detective Kerry Yamaguchi discovered Burke’s knife on a countertop near a sink just down a basement corridor from the [wine cellar] where JonBenét’s body was found."
https://shakedowntitle.com/2016/12/07/jonbenet-ramsey-case-insights-1-burkes-knife/

It appears the distance between the body and the knife gets closer as time goes on.
"At that point, only the police knew that Burke’s Swiss Army knife had been found next to JonBenet’s body."  https://nypost.com/1999/05/13/jealous-brother-9-killed-jonbenet-in-a-rage-claims-tab/

I don't think there are sufficient clues to say if anyone used Burke's knife in the commission of this crime.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 10:42:22 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #281 on: November 26, 2019, 03:16:32 AM »
I have revised some posts pages 1 - 16 inclusive.   Happy reading. 225 
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 08:13:08 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #282 on: November 27, 2019, 01:21:45 AM »
Another poster:
"there were actually 7 pages missing from the middle of the notepad."
My reply:
That is what I mean. Were there two ransom notes drawn up? It seems that the notes read by John Fernie could not have been the same notes read by Patsy before she made the telephone call.  The ransom note was never in the position John Fernie describes IMO.

James Fitzgerald forensic linguistic profiler says there were two versions of the ransom note https://youtu.be/Ik1M73eLEds?t=209  JonBenét Ramsey case: CWD examines ransom note - Crime Watch Daily
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #283 on: November 27, 2019, 01:35:50 AM »
This information is not generally known that there were two ransom notes written out. https://youtu.be/Ik1M73eLEds?t=204 I hardly believe that except that there are repeated claims of a second practice note.

From the video that is being said to Jim Clemente the former FBI profiler. So two sources now point to a second ransom note.. But if the second note was the one read by John Fernie how did it end up in a back room of the house. What does back room of the house mean anyway?

"James Fitzgerald worked as a supervisory special agent and forensic linguistic profiler for the FBI at the time of the Ramsey case. He served in the bureau's Behavioral Analysis Unit, which became the inspiration for the CBS procedural drama, Criminal Minds.
Fitzgerald first came to prominence as a forensic linguistic prior to the Ramsey case. "
https://www.bustle.com/.../184442-who-is-james-fitzgerald...

I believe there were two full versions of the ransom note. There were two versions of the ransom note 
 One was crumpled up and found in a back room. I wonder if the back room was the Butler's kitchen.

This quote from "JonBenét: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation" just about confirms it:

"The Ransom Notepad

"Chet Ubowski at the CBI had pulled startling information from the tablet belonging to patsy Ramsey. By comparing tear patterns, Ubowski had determined that the first twelve pages were missing and the next four - pages 13 through 16 - contained doodles and lists and some miscellaneous writing."

"But the next group of pages, 17 through 25, were also missing from the tablet. The following page, 26, was the practice ransom note (Mr. and Mrs. I), and that page showed evidence of ink bleedthrough from the missing page 25."

"Comparisons of the ragged tops of the ransom note pages with the remnants left in the tablet proved that it had come from pages 27, 28, and 29."

"Furthermore, the ink bleedthrough discovered on page 26 indicated that perhaps still another practice note could have been writtenon page 25 and been discarded. Two possible practice notes and one real one covering three pages led me to believe that the killer had spend more time in the house composing the ransom note than we originally thought."

"But even more significant, it seemed clear that whoever wrote it was unafraid of being caught in the house. We never found the missing pages."

JonBenét: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation"
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 05:59:31 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #284 on: November 27, 2019, 06:03:27 PM »
John Fernie does not claim he read the ransom note.

Now that I propose there was another note left, the second note may have been written in larger writing that made it clearer and easily to read through a glass door at 6:00 AM in the morning.
I think it would be physically impossible to read the ransom note through a glass door.
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