UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Holly Goodhead on July 01, 2019, 08:57:35 AM
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Other than the dogs (thread already created) what forensic tests have been carried out?
The window/shutters were tested for fingerprints and revealed KM's only?
Some items were DNA tested using LCN?
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Other than the dogs (thread already created) what forensic tests have been carried out?
The window/shutters were tested for fingerprints and revealed KM's only?
Some items were DNA tested using LCN?
As I understand there were other smudged prints on the shutters
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As I understand there were other smudged prints on the shutters
Thanks. The emphasis seems to be on the shutters. What about the window, patio doors, child gate and gate leading to road?
As I understand it the shutter (window?) had recently been cleaned hence the prints were potentially valuable?
What about glove prints?
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Thanks. The emphasis seems to be on the shutters. What about the window, patio doors, child gate and gate leading to road?
As I understand it the shutter (window?) had recently been cleaned hence the prints were potentially valuable?
What about glove prints?
Without starting a war... As I understand the crime scene analysis was not thorough ...Maddie's bed sheets were sent to the laundry and never seen again.
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Other than the dogs (thread already created) what forensic tests have been carried out?
The window/shutters were tested for fingerprints and revealed KM's only?
Some items were DNA tested using LCN?
Have you seen the file on forensics? http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TRANSLATIONS.htm
These are the file names:
"
DOGS - F.S.S - PORTUGUESE FORENSICS
FORENSIC LINKS INDEX
5A SAMPLES INDICATED BY EDDIE & KEELA
5A FORENSICS 04-05-07
BLOOD SPLATTERS
DOGS INSPECTION & FINDINGS PDL 31-07-07
DOGS INSPECTION SITES 2
EDDIE & KEELA APART INSPECTION JULY 07
EDDIE & KEELA MARTIN GRIME AUG 2007
FINGER PRINTS
FORENSIC CLOTHING PHOTOS PJ FILES
FSS. ANDREW LLOYD PALMER MADELINE'S HAIR
FSS. JOHN ROBERT LOWE REPORT
GNR SNIFFER DOGS REPORTS 30 NOV 07
INVOICES RELATING TO DNA ANALYSIS
MADELEINES DNA
MARTIN GRIME PERSONAL PROFILE
MARTIN GRIME 14 MAY 2008 ROGATORY
PORTUGUESE FORENSIC INSTITUTE TESTS"
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As I understand there were other smudged prints on the shutters
I couldn't find any reference to that in the forensic report.
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I couldn't find any reference to that in the forensic report.
Someone mentioned it last week or so and as I recall provided a cite
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I couldn't find any reference to that in the forensic report.
It appears in the Dispatches C4 docudrama where 5 British experts tried to narrow down what happened to Madeleine.
They were analysing the work of Irene Trovão, the local CSI agent who conducted her work on the morning of 4 May, before the Lisbon CSI team did their sweep. The Brits were trying to emulate what pattern you would get in raising the shutter manually from the outside.
I'm fairly sure I've seen the two smudges mentioned in the PJF somewhere, but I never considered them important enough to note where. The smudges could belong to an alleged aductor, GM or DW, or any mix thereof.
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It appears in the Dispatches C4 docudrama where 5 British experts tried to narrow down what happened to Madeleine.
They were analysing the work of Irene Trovão, the local CSI agent who conducted her work on the morning of 4 May, before the Lisbon CSI team did their sweep. The Brits were trying to emulate what pattern you would get in raising the shutter manually from the outside.
I'm fairly sure I've seen the two smudges mentioned in the PJF somewhere, but I never considered them important enough to note where. The smudges could belong to an alleged aductor, GM or DW, or any mix thereof.
I think if the smudges could belong to an alleged abductor they are important... Posters, seem to believe there, were no other marks in the shutters and see this to support no one else touched them
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I think if the smudges could belong to an alleged abductor they are important... Posters, seem to believe there, were no other marks in the shutters and see this to support no one else touched them
As they smudges were unusable and according to reports at least 2 of the T9 tried to raise the shutter from the outside, they prove nothing about an alleged abductor.
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I think if the smudges could belong to an alleged abductor they are important... Posters, seem to believe there, were no other marks in the shutters and see this to support no one else touched them
The problem was the apartment was a holiday let and it would have been almost impossible to eliminate everyone who had stayed there over the months and years.
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As they smudges were unusable and according to reports at least 2 of the T9 tried to raise the shutter from the outside, they prove nothing about an alleged abductor.
I didn't say they prove anything as such... But there's a claim that the alleged abductor left no trace... If there are smudges on the shutters then maybe he did
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The problem was the apartment was a holiday let and it would have been almost impossible to eliminate everyone who had stayed there over the months and years.
We don't know who made those smudges... They may or may not have been made by an abductor... Therefore we don't know if an abductor left a trace or not
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Professor Barclay seemed to want to dismiss the shutters being opened from the outside due to lack of marks... But there were unexplained marks
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It appears in the Dispatches C4 docudrama where 5 British experts tried to narrow down what happened to Madeleine.
They were analysing the work of Irene Trovão, the local CSI agent who conducted her work on the morning of 4 May, before the Lisbon CSI team did their sweep. The Brits were trying to emulate what pattern you would get in raising the shutter manually from the outside.
I'm fairly sure I've seen the two smudges mentioned in the PJF somewhere, but I never considered them important enough to note where. The smudges could belong to an alleged aductor, GM or DW, or any mix thereof.
I found this;
Outside of the external blinds to the children's bedroom: three inadequate prints were recovered.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm
The inadequate prints were all sent to Interpol and compared wuth the databases of 8 countries.
No mention of smudges, but I think the Brits said in that video that the shutters would have been easily smudged.
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Probably would have been worthwhile checking all the other shutters of the same type for similar wear patterns. Could be that, due to the mechanism, they all wear in approximately in the same manner.
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I found this;
Outside of the external blinds to the children's bedroom: three inadequate prints were recovered.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm
The inadequate prints were all sent to Interpol and compared wuth the databases of 8 countries.
No mention of smudges, but I think the Brits said in that video that the shutters would have been easily smudged.
Inadequate prints smudges... Same thing
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I found this;
Outside of the external blinds to the children's bedroom: three inadequate prints were recovered.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm
The inadequate prints were all sent to Interpol and compared wuth the databases of 8 countries.
No mention of smudges, but I think the Brits said in that video that the shutters would have been easily smudged.
*&(+(+
If those prints were incomplete AND were retained, then the possibility exists of a match as fingerprints go forward.
Thank you for refreshing my memory.
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So the smudges/part prints are important
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So the smudges/part prints are important
Quite a rigorous forensic search, data retention and analysis for a set of imbecilic Keystone Cops.
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Quite a rigorous forensic search, data retention and analysis for a set of imbecilic Keystone Cops.
Perhaps.... Perhaps not... It's not what s found it's what's missed
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Perhaps.... Perhaps not... It's not what s found it's what's missed
What was missing?
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Professor Barclay seemed to want to dismiss the shutters being opened from the outside due to lack of marks... But there were unexplained marks
Aren't they referring to these marks as thumb marks, so if there are thumb marks on the outside the finger marks would be on the inside surface of the shutters.
Palm print possibly on the underneath surface. Was the bottom edge checked?
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Quite a rigorous forensic search, data retention and analysis for a set of imbecilic Keystone Cops.
You forgot to mention the sardine munchin...
smudged prints could be attributed to the repair guys and or Diane/Gerry having a go at opening them.
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Aren't they referring to these marks as thumb marks, so if there are thumb marks on the outside the finger marks would be on the inside surface of the shutters.
Palm print possibly on the underneath surface. Was the bottom edge checked?
They were speculating as they didn't kmow what had been found.
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Aren't they referring to these marks as thumb marks, so if there are thumb marks on the outside the finger marks would be on the inside surface of the shutters.
Palm print possibly on the underneath surface. Was the bottom edge checked?
Have you any idea how thin a thin aluminium shutter is?
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They were speculating as they didn't know what had been found.
No even I can see what looked like at least two thumb marks.
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Have you any idea how thin a thin aluminium shutter is?
The bottom part is a rectangular tube with a definite bottom edge IMO. OK I can't recall ever handling one of these shutters myself.
(https://4.imimg.com/data4/RF/KA/MY-1383239/window-shutter-500x500.jpg)
OK the bottom edge is only about 1 centimetre wide.
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The bottom part is a rectangular tube with a definite bottom edge IMO. OK I can't recall ever handling one of these shutters myself.
(https://4.imimg.com/data4/RF/KA/MY-1383239/window-shutter-500x500.jpg)
OK the bottom edge is only about 1 centimetre wide.
These ones look new. Anyway we don't know who closed the alleged open shutters. We need to be reminded that Diane and Gerry did go and 'check' them. some would argue tampering with evidence and maybe wiping prints- if we are to believe their story.
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Quite a rigorous forensic search, data retention and analysis for a set of imbecilic Keystone Cops.
Less of the cops if you don't mind
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The bottom part is a rectangular tube with a definite bottom edge IMO. OK I can't recall ever handling one of these shutters myself.
(https://4.imimg.com/data4/RF/KA/MY-1383239/window-shutter-500x500.jpg)
OK the bottom edge is only about 1 centimetre wide.
I went out to check on our shutters after this. They are more modern and electric, so not 5A. But about 1cm in depth.
Not enough for a fingerprint, or a palm print.
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I went out to check on our shutters after this. They are more modern and electric, so not 5A. But about 1cm in depth.
Not enough for a fingerprint, or a palm print.
I imagine you would get partial prints under that bottom slat; that is to say, effectively, the back of the blind at the bottom, when you curl your fingers under to lift.
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I imagine you would get partial prints under that bottom slat; that is to say, effectively, the back of the blind at the bottom, when you curl your fingers under to lift.
Yes, I would agree.
I have no idea if the inner side of the shutter was tested.
Anyone?
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Have you seen the file on forensics? http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TRANSLATIONS.htm
These are the file names:
"
DOGS - F.S.S - PORTUGUESE FORENSICS
FORENSIC LINKS INDEX
5A SAMPLES INDICATED BY EDDIE & KEELA
5A FORENSICS 04-05-07
BLOOD SPLATTERS
DOGS INSPECTION & FINDINGS PDL 31-07-07
DOGS INSPECTION SITES 2
EDDIE & KEELA APART INSPECTION JULY 07
EDDIE & KEELA MARTIN GRIME AUG 2007
FINGER PRINTS
FORENSIC CLOTHING PHOTOS PJ FILES
FSS. ANDREW LLOYD PALMER MADELINE'S HAIR
FSS. JOHN ROBERT LOWE REPORT
GNR SNIFFER DOGS REPORTS 30 NOV 07
INVOICES RELATING TO DNA ANALYSIS
MADELEINES DNA
MARTIN GRIME PERSONAL PROFILE
MARTIN GRIME 14 MAY 2008 ROGATORY
PORTUGUESE FORENSIC INSTITUTE TESTS"
No I haven't seen it - thanks for the link. Just out of interest how did all of this come to be in the public domain?
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Leading forensic scientist, Angela Gallop, in The Guardian, 29th May 2019:
On the cases she felt she could have contributed to, Gallop said she felt the parents of Madeleine McCann had been “badly served by forensic science, partly because some of it was done in a country that has got a little less structure than we have. But a little was done in this country, a very sensitive DNA technique was used, and I think it was overinterpreted. And I think that added to the problems”.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/29/police-cuts-could-see-rise-in-miscarriages-of-justice-says-angela-gallop-forensic-expert
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These ones look new. Anyway we don't know who closed the alleged open shutters. We need to be reminded that Diane and Gerry did go and 'check' them. some would argue tampering with evidence and maybe wiping prints- if we are to believe their story.
They had to be lowered to test if they can be raised from the outside. So if Gerry checked them first he lowered them.
If Dianne checked them first she lowered them. But she didn't go into the kids room so it can't have been her.